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  1. #76
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    Ordered 177s this morning (me: small, Alpental). Have hit refresh on the shipping tracking 8,636 times so far.

  2. #77
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    Mantra 102 - where to mount it?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoEddy View Post
    Yes (haha). Consider my last post - if you're comfortable pushing the longest size made of 'X ski' then why would it be different for 'Y ski'? I believe the same holds true for the next size down. If the 189 isn't the longest version then the comparable would be the 184 regardless of what the number is.
    Well, thatís a pretty simplistic view. Some skis can be downsized without significant limitations, e.g. OG Bodacious or Cochise, some canít, e.g. Rustler 11. Based on the published reports IĎd guess Mantra 102 belongs to the first category, would like to have this confirmed though.
    Last edited by roQer; 01-24-2020 at 05:47 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by roQer View Post
    Well, that’s a pretty simplistic view. Same skis can be downsized without significant limitations, e.g. OG Bodacious or Cochise, some can’t, e.g. Rustler 11. Based on the published reports I‘d guess Mantra 102 belongs to the first category, would like to have this confirmed though.
    I recall Blister seemed to think so.
    No personal experience with this ski, but highly intrigued, as with the new katana (although a bit sceptical there as well). If I wasnt facing compulsory quiver slimming b/c of transatlantic relocation, I'd hoard.

  4. #79
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    Sounds like there aren't many people who dislike this stick. Already have 187 bones but what the hell. When do the 191s go on super sale? I'd take a 184 too but those appear to be the preferred size i.e. not gonna find on sale

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by roQer View Post
    Well, thatís a pretty simplistic view. Some skis can be downsized without significant limitations, e.g. OG Bodacious or Cochise, some canít, e.g. Rustler 11. Based on the published reports IĎd guess Mantra 102 belongs to the first category, would like to have this confirmed though.
    Which is why I stated in an earlier post "to oversimplify ... ". Catch up will ya.

    BTW I just spent 4 days at Big Sky which was my first time there. What an awesome mountain. The Big is just, well, so cool to have that so easily accessible. Anyway, it's bony as hell there, and that's even during what is apparently an above average snow year.

    I hit every fucking rock on the damn hill. No kidding I hit several so hard deep into the apex of a turn (i.e. max edge pressure) that I thought for sure my edge would be ripped out (did I mention I weigh 215 ...). I did get one hard one where the edge was bent out just a tinge, but other than that they held up incredibly well. Lots of gouges to repair, but no core shots and no significant edge damage. I'm truly amazed at how stout these are, which is a side benefit to everything else.

    I do not work for Volkl! (I wish)
    Last edited by YoEddy; 01-29-2020 at 07:44 PM. Reason: content
    Who cares how the crow flies

  6. #81
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    Big Sky rips skis apart. Next time you're there, ask to see a local's bases.

    Awesome to hear your 102 handled the abuse!

  7. #82
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    the Wren vs Volkl 102.... The Wren while a stout ski has a ton of tip rocker, so has a lot less effective edge than the 102.
    Skiah for life

  8. #83
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    It's hard to understand why this comparison is coming up. Wren 96 or 108? Ti? I kind of feel like these are two different genres of skis in comparison to the Mantra 102.

    As an athlete, I'll keep it simple: I don't like a lot of rocker. At all. I don't want to rely on rocker to keep me afloat. I want camber to do my dirty work. I want a reverse camber ski in 3D snow. I want that ski to be stiff and in its sweet spot. Ala-- the 4FRNT Renegade. I don't have to think, at all.

    On 2D snow I want my edge to engage, and I want my tail to release. I do not need float. I do not need heaps of rocker. This is where ON3P loses me.

    The 2020 M102 nailed it. It's very subtle camber keeping my edge engaged while simultaneously making it easy to pivot in softer snow.

    I'll try an ON3P build. But get rid of that god-awful huge-ass tip rocker that is going to bounce over every piece of chop it encounters as it was designed to be a "floater."

    Look at this picture and tell me if it's accurate. Do all these skis have the exact same rocker/camber profile?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by gaijin; 01-31-2020 at 06:24 AM.

  9. #84
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    Thank you! That was the point I was trying to make just too lazy to write it all out. The skis are apples and airplanes.

    The discussion on these 2 skis came from the previous page(s) talking about length and the point I was trying to make was the Volkl will ski closer to true length and the Wren will ski shorter due to all the rocker.
    Skiah for life

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    It's hard to understand why this comparison is coming up. Wren 96 or 108? Ti? I kind of feel like these are two different genres of skis in comparison to the Mantra 102.

    As an athlete, I'll keep it simple: I don't like a lot of rocker. At all. I don't want to rely on rocker to keep me afloat. I want camber to do my dirty work. I want a reverse camber ski in 3D snow. I want that ski to be stiff and in its sweet spot. Ala-- the 4FRNT Renegade. I don't have to think, at all.

    On 2D snow I want my edge to engage, and I want my tail to release. I do not need float. I do not need heaps of rocker. This is where ON3P loses me.

    The 2020 M102 nailed it. It's very subtle camber keeping my edge engaged while simultaneously making it easy to pivot in softer snow.

    I'll try an ON3P build. But get rid of that god-awful huge-ass tip rocker that is going to bounce over every piece of chop it encounters as it was designed to be a "floater."

    Look at this picture and tell me if it's accurate. Do all these skis have the exact same rocker/camber profile?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I understand the point youíre making - the reason I asked about the Wren is that if you want a stiff metal laminate ski with a long turn radius for hard snow, there arenít really a ton of options in current production (Kastle MX99, Mantra, Wren, possibly the new Rossi and Solly next year?). Iíve been looking for a Monster 98 but canít find a 184 Or 191 that isnít beat to hell or the same price as a new ski.

    So, while the Mantra and Wren are obviously different skis, they were both finalists for me personally. Does that make any more sense?

  11. #86
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    Anyone have a comparison between V Werks Katana or Mantra and this M102?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Anyone have a comparison between V Werks Katana or Mantra and this M102?
    Next week I'll start to have answers

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Anyone have a comparison between V Werks Katana or Mantra and this M102?
    Actually I do. I have the green dragon full metal 198cm Katana, a 191cm V-Werks Katana, and as stated a slew of previous Mantras and now the 102.

    As a benchmark nothing touches the full metal Katana. Nothing. So far may all-time fav ski. The V-Werks Katana skis like ~90% of the full metal version even though it's uber-lightweight and 7 cm shorter, but realize that it also has Kingpins on it so the bindings (Jester Pro versus KP13) and boots (Atomix Hawx 130 UTD versus RS 140) add a huge variable there. That variable will also play into my V-Werks and M102 comparison as I have new Dukes on the M102.

    That said, the V-werks Katana is more similar to older Mantras and/or the M5 than the M102. It's very much directional like the metal version, and as a matter of fact this thread was started asking about mounting points based on my Katana experience. I ended-up mounting the V-Werks +2cm because it was such a traditional feel. It locks into the turn and doesn't like to let go until it's done. Don't get me wrong - you can pivot it, but not with the mindless ease of the M102. Mounting it forward made it a little more playful, but it's still a Katana.

    To summarize the Katanas (either) are more like the M5 and older Mantras. I consider the M102 to be in a class by itself because it can do everything the Katanas and other mantras do, with aplomb, but they don't do what the M102 can do.
    Who cares how the crow flies

  14. #89
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    Mantra 102 - where to mount it?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoEddy View Post
    Actually I do. I have the green dragon full metal 198cm Katana, a 191cm V-Werks Katana, and as stated a slew of previous Mantras and now the 102.

    As a benchmark nothing touches the full metal Katana. Nothing. So far may all-time fav ski. The V-Werks Katana skis like ~90% of the full metal version even though it's uber-lightweight and 7 cm shorter, but realize that it also has Kingpins on it so the bindings (Jester Pro versus KP13) and boots (Atomix Hawx 130 UTD versus RS 140) add a huge variable there. That variable will also play into my V-Werks and M102 comparison as I have new Dukes on the M102.

    That said, the V-werks Katana is more similar to older Mantras and/or the M5 than the M102. It's very much directional like the metal version, and as a matter of fact this thread was started asking about mounting points based on my Katana experience. I ended-up mounting the V-Werks +2cm because it was such a traditional feel. It locks into the turn and doesn't like to let go until it's done. Don't get me wrong - you can pivot it, but not with the mindless ease of the M102. Mounting it forward made it a little more playful, but it's still a Katana.

    To summarize the Katanas (either) are more like the M5 and older Mantras. I consider the M102 to be in a class by itself because it can do everything the Katanas and other mantras do, with aplomb, but they don't do what the M102 can do.
    Thanks for this, I'll get on a pair. Just checked at the ski shop at the bottom of the hill and they have some to demo so I'll get on them. Only 184's but I think that is what I would go for vs my 191 Enforcer 110's. Have some V Werks Katana 184 in plastic so I was trying to see if I was being stupid considering this M102, but I might but pin bindings on the V Werks.

    Makes me wonder which camp the V Werks Mantra is in. Old school mantra or new M102...
    Last edited by CaliBrit; 01-31-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Next week I'll start to have answers
    Brilliant, please report back.

  16. #91
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    First day on a Mantra 102 in 184. All kinds of snow from blank ice to powder. Those are my impressions:

    1) Itís an excellent ski but it has in this length for me definitely a lower top end than OG Cochise in 193, OG Bodacious in 186, OG metal Katana in 191, Kšstle BMX 105 HP in 189 and Faction Dictator 4.0 in 192, all of them I still own or recently owned.
    2) Thus itĎs not some ballistic missile as Blister and some other reports suggest. In fact itís very pivoty and quite easy to ski. Reminds me pretty much of my Rustler 11 in terms of accessibility. As with OG metal Katana and OG Cochise any turn shape is possible but with the Mantra you get more energy from the turn than from those both.
    3) If youíre used to more centered mounts go at least 1 or 2 cm forward. The tail is softer than expected and provides not much support, much less than OG Bodacious (with a very similar mount point) or OG metal Katana. The ski responds very well to a more centered stance and I assume going +2 would make it better balanced.
    4) If youíre a strong skier donít listen to Blister and downsize if between the sizes. I really wish I had gone 191 instead of 184. Maybe it gets better if I remount the binding at +1.5 or +2.

    In summary: nice but not a variable conditions charger revelation which for I hoped. Gonna keep my OG metal Katanas as there is still no replacement in sight.

  17. #92
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    Mantra 102 - where to mount it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roQer View Post
    First day on a Mantra 102 in 184. All kinds of snow from blank ice to powder. Those are my impressions:

    1) Itís an excellent ski but it has in this length for me definitely a lower top end than OG Cochise in 193, OG Bodacious in 186, OG metal Katana in 191, Kšstle BMX 105 HP in 189 and Faction Dictator 4.0 in 192, all of them I still own or recently owned.
    2) Thus itĎs not some ballistic missile as Blister and some other reports suggest. In fact itís very pivoty and quite easy to ski. Reminds me pretty much of my Rustler 11 in terms of accessibility. As with OG metal Katana and OG Cochise any turn shape is possible but with the Mantra you get more energy from the turn than from those both.
    3) If youíre used to more centered mounts go at least 1 or 2 cm forward. The tail is softer than expected and provides not much support, much less than OG Bodacious (with a very similar mount point) or OG metal Katana. The ski responds very well to a more centered stance and I assume going +2 would make it better balanced.
    4) If youíre a strong skier donít listen to Blister and downsize if between the sizes. I really wish I had gone 191 instead of 184. Maybe it gets better if I remount the binding at +1.5 or +2.

    In summary: nice but not a variable conditions charger revelation which for I hoped. Gonna keep my OG metal Katanas as there is still no replacement in sight.
    Whatís your height/weight?

    Also thanks for the insight!

  18. #93
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    Aug 2018
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    Has anyone skied both the Mantra 102 and the Head Monster 98? The M98 is my firm snow ski and is awesome, but would be more awesome if it were looser off piste, a bit more energetic, and more pliable with respect to making different turn shapes. I'd be willing to trade some top-end stability for these characteristics.

    I'll probably try to demo the Mantra 102 at some point over the next couple of weeks and can provide a comparison afterwards.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Whatís your height/weight?

    Also thanks for the insight!
    IĎm 185 cm and 85 kg naked.

  20. #95
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    Well I guess that's good news as the only ones I can get my hands on at a reasonable price is the long one. If I didn't already have a ton of 108 cm skis I'd just wait for next years katana. basically the same ski eh?

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by roQer View Post
    IĎm 185 cm and 85 kg naked.
    I'm 188 cm and 80kg... on the 191s.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by klauss View Post
    Well I guess that's good news as the only ones I can get my hands on at a reasonable price is the long one. If I didn't already have a ton of 108 cm skis I'd just wait for next years katana. basically the same ski eh?
    That is a good question: does the katana have less tail rocker than the M102? Tip shape looked a bit different too from hazy pics?

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by smooth operator View Post
    That is a good question: does the katana have less tail rocker than the M102? Tip shape looked a bit different too from hazy pics?
    Given the differentiation between the 2 mantras Iím guessing the katana will also be a little different vs just a wider M102.

  24. #99
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    I was able to demo the Mantra 102 at Whistler recently and A/B it against the Monster 98 in conditions ranging from icy groomers to windbuff to 8-10" of pow (skied both in a 177 length; I am 5'7, 165ish). A few thoughts below for anyone interested in this comparison.

    TLDR: these skis do not feel that similar, and I think the Mantra 102 is a better ski by every measure except top-end stability, where the M98 is significantly stronger.

    The M98 hand flexes stiffer than the M102, especially in the tips and tails. It also feels like a much stiffer, more one-dimensional ski on snow. The M98 wants to lock into one turn shape, and it takes a fair bit of skier input to break free from a turn or bend it into a tighter radius. The M102 is more eager to initiate turns, while also being WAY easier to pivot and slarve around. The M102 also generates a nice amount of energy when unloaded, whereas the M98 is deadly calm regardless of how hard you ski it.

    For how precise of a carver it is, the M102 is surprisingly easy and intuitive in 3D snow. I skied a lot of variable conditions, including some steep pitches that transitioned from wind-scoured at the top to powder or cut-up crud farther down, and felt pretty comfortable opening the throttle on the M102. Even though the M98 is a much more stable ski, its stiff/flat tips and tails are more prone to getting hung up or kicking you off balance if you shift too far fore/aft.

    Neither ski is playful, but the M102 is more fun. It would make a great half of a 2-ski quiver for days that aren't super deep/soft.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Given the differentiation between the 2 mantras I’m guessing the katana will also be a little different vs just a wider M102.
    Sadly I hear that it's a bigger version of the M5. I hope this is bad beta, but I fear not.
    Who cares how the crow flies

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