Plum guide ramp angle question

[Vermontfreeride]

Wondering if someone can give me some advice. Picked up some plum guides and was planning on running them. Read a bit about them having a very steep ramp angle..

Should I be concerned about this? Want to be sure this is what I want to run before I get the drollbits out..
thanks for your help!

[Toddball]

+18mm is a relatively high ramp. You can fix that by installing shims under the toes.

Ramp angle chart: https://skimo.co/pin-heights
Shims (you want "Classic", I think): https://skimo.co/bnd-shims

[Boissal]

Built-in back-seat compensation right there... It might be tolerable if you have a very upright boot but +18 is super high . My Speed Turn 2.0 are close and definitely a bit over the top, especially when going back and forth with another flatter binding (Superlites).

[Vermontfreeride]

Haha thanks... hmm does that mean that with the shins I’ll be higher off the ski than other comparable bindings? Not that stoked on that either.
Moreover, is it worth it to go plum guides and shims over a different binding? They sure are pretty but I’m used to skiing beasts and CAST system



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[mikebob]

Or just ski em and don't think about it. I love my Plums. But I've got sasquatch size feet.

[galibier_numero_un]

I love my Guides. I compared them against my Vipec Blacks, shimmed the toe by about 7mm to create parity (before ever going out on them), and haven't thought about it twice.

... Thom

[thefortrees]

I have plum guides on multiple pairs Of skis. Ski ‘em and don’t overthink it. Tweak if you must but only after trying .

[Vermontfreeride]

Galibier did you order the shims+longer screws from the same link Toddball posted (skimo)?
That sounds like the route that I am leaning towards going.

Anybody know what alpine binding ramp angles are out of curiosity? Fks?


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[galibier_numero_un]

Galibier did you order the shims+longer screws from the same link Toddball posted (skimo)?
That sounds like the route that I am leaning towards going.

Anybody know what alpine binding ramp angles are out of curiosity? Fks?

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I fabricated my shims out of UHMW (cutting board material) and my bindings are mounted with inserts. I sourced my own M5 screws.

I compared Vipecs against Wardens and measured the pin delta (the way skimo does) - the height from the toe & heel pins to the top sheet. For the Wardens, I ran a Sharpie line on the boots to show where the center of the toe & heel pins would seat in the fittings.

The two deltas were within a mm of each other, although the stack height of the Vipecs was about 10mm higher.

I used my Lange XT Freetours in both my Wardens and the Vipecs. The Langes had the WTR soles, so bear this in mind, and know that the
Warden MNC AFD is kind of tall.

This was fine for my purposes, but you might have to take an Alpine Boot/binding into account when you consider this for your application. I've never figured out how to come up with an apples to apples comparison between an ISO 9523 or WTR boot and an alpine boot. I've never handled a Gripwalk boot so I'm even more clueless about those.

Referencing the top of toe and heel ledges doesn't seem like meaningful way compare where your foot sits in the boot. If you go this deep down the rabbit hole (and I'm not inclined to do so), it seems to me, that you'd have to x-ray the boots to see where your foot sits inside the boot. I escaped this problem by using the Langes for both bindings. Would my Zero-Gs vary slightly from this? Probably.

... Thom

[waxoff]

Haha thanks... hmm does that mean that with the shins I’ll be higher off the ski than other comparable bindings? Not that stoked on that either.
Moreover, is it worth it to go plum guides and shims over a different binding? They sure are pretty but I’m used to skiing beasts and CAST system



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If you're used to and feel comfy on the ramps on Beasts, then there's a great chance you'll find the Guides a bit steep. The Beasts are fairly moderate in ramp/delta but the Guides having a whopping 10 mm higher difference (than Beast) calls for toe shimming for most people that have only a remote sensitivty for ramp.

If you decide to first ski the Guides without toe shims, that's fine, but should you feel like anything at all feels off with the setup, e.g. weird tracking, catchy tips, forced backseat, or any discomfort whatsoever, do under no circumstances start thinking about drilling new holes, moving mount point, getting rid of the skis or other non reversible actions before you have tried shimming the toes!

Edited to add: Or, just go ahead and shim those toes prior to skiing them, you will prolly end up there anyway!

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Galibier did you order the shims+longer screws from the same link Toddball posted (skimo)?
That sounds like the route that I am leaning towards going.

Anybody know what alpine binding ramp angles are out of curiosity? Fks?

depends which FKS years and which toe plate (if referring to 18's). But 18's typically have a 4mm dif between toe and heel. I believe the taller toe plate puts the heel at +2mm over the toe height. Somebody can correct me as that seems a bit kooky to have a dif toe plate to only gain 2mm. Maybe it flattens it to 0. Close enough.

12's and 14's have a 2mm dif between toe and heel. We can go back many years to the skinny afd's on the 12's and 14's and then I believe 8mm dif.

Anyway, it all depends on what you are used to now and how sensitive you are to ramps changes. You're asking about FKS so I am going to guess you have an alpine set up that you are used to with FKS?

Your touring boot will have as big an influence on your fore/aft feel as will the ramp. Using myself as an example: I use Vertical FT's with a 16mm delta (so similar to your Guides) and that set up, with Salomon touring boots, feels very much the same to me (only in ramp/lean) as my alpine set up with a 4mm delta and my alpine boots. If I shimmed the toes on my dynfits I would find them unskiable No way I would get used to raising the toes 6+mm.

Just saying, there are a lot of variables. if you are sharing one pair of boots for touring and alpine then far less variables.

[Vermontfreeride]

All good info, thanks again. I’m moving to a whole new set up composed of the plum guides, tlt6’s and praxis bc’s.. all of which I’ve never skied.

My previous set up was lupos, CAST and hojis. And before that lupos and beasts. I ski fks 18’s or 14’s on all my in bounds skis.

Are there any resources about different boot ramp angles? I’m assuming touring specific boots take into account this high binding ramp angle (in comparison to alpine bindings).

As of now Im planning on just getting a small shim of 3-4 mm under the toe of the plums and starting there.


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[CuriousGeorge]

Have a similar setup BC's, Guides, Lupo AX. 6.5mm toe shim put me in about the right place, not sure about the geometry of tlt v Lupo but maybe a reference point for you.

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