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Thread: Poor Idaho

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Go read the CA is dry thread from start to finish to educate yourself. I always thought Beaverton had good schools.
    I was actually just making a sarcastic crack (ha ha) at LA over water vs actually making some claim. Not to say I haven't read/watched stuff on the early LA water projects but I am no expert nor would I claim to be and have no opinion on the matter.

    Oh and I didn't grow up or attend school in beaverton so you can keep your opinion straight on the school system.

  2. #152
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    Aug 2020
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    550
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    The Oregon counties that want to leave want to chop down trees. They somehow think if they leave Idaho everything will go back to the 1970s and the mills will open back up. But it is the Endangered Species Act, and spotted owl, that prevents chopping, and that won't change if they join Idaho.

    CA and WA have a major economic advantage over Idaho that will never go away. Deep water ports for trade to Asia and military bases (which need to be in strategic places, like the coast and corners of the country). Those both bring in blue collar jobs, means tax revenue, means better schools, better schools means tech companies. Idaho can't replicate this.
    Yes. These rural counties in Oregon are fighting the same timber battles that were fought in the 80’s and 90’s.

    If they get the opportunity, they will certainly roll back the ESA.

    I’d love to live in one of these rural towns in OR and loved my time living in rural E Oregon and NE Oregon for over a decade but would certainly think twice today considering the overall cultural and political climate with kids in the equation now.

  3. #153
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    Wasatch
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You do realize the last payroll tax holiday did not affect employer share of FICA and the employee's cost to them was exactly the same right?

    Way to illustrate my point on education though.
    Yes, the last payroll tax holiday only affected employee withholding. Payroll taxes have been around since the 19th century, with varying rates.

    Incidence doesn't depend on whether it's withheld on the employee or the employer side. It depends on the relative elasticity of the demand for labor, you dumbfuck.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Yes. These rural counties in Oregon are fighting the same timber battles that were fought in the 80’s and 90’s.

    If they get the opportunity, they will certainly roll back the ESA.

    I’d love to live in one of these rural towns in OR and loved my time living in rural E Oregon and NE Oregon for over a decade but would certainly think twice today considering the overall cultural and political climate with kids in the equation now.
    From where I sit (in a liberal enclave of rural E Oregon) it's not so much a desire to return to logging as it is an intense hatred of a bisexual woman (Kate Brown) telling them what to do.
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  5. #155
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    From where I sit (in a liberal enclave of rural E Oregon) it's not so much a desire to return to logging as it is an intense hatred of a bisexual woman (Kate Brown) telling them what to do.
    This. https://www.oregonlive.com/wildfires...te-forest.html

    I bet these same environmentalists are also pro affordable housing.

    ID ain't changing the ESA. That's Fed statute.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  6. #156
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    It's definitely better for the environment and healthy forests to let burnt trees stand, naturally fall, decay, ect. Promotes healthy forest soil and wildlife habitat (snags for birds). I think there is a balance between salvaging some wood, and letting some naturally decay. The Oregonion has had a series of articles on salvage logging in the recent burn zones. Allegations that private contractors were cutting more trees than they should with little state over site.
    Last edited by altasnob; 06-11-2021 at 12:47 PM.

  7. #157
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    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    The suit is over whether to harvest 20% of the burned wood in one area of Santiam State Forest. And as I understand it, much of this harvest is for hazard tree removal so repairs to recreation sites and reforestation efforts can commence.

    Given the price of lumber these days, the state can buy a shitload of mulch & fertilizer with the proceeds from selling these trees.
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  8. #158
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    Not as simple as dumping mulch and fertilizer in the forest to promote proper soil health. There is a symbiotic relationship between decaying wood and thousands of other soil microbes unique to old growth forest. This relationship is basically why Oregon's old growth forest look the way they do and if you remove the timber, it will not recover the same. Read the Hidden Forest, Oregon State Press, which details studies conducted at Andrews Experimental Forest, near Blue River, OR, to learn more:

    https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Forest.../dp/087071094X

  9. #159
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    Oct 2004
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    Santiam is hardly an old growth ecosystem.
    And when a fire like last fall's comes through, soils get sterilized.

    So all your talk about ancient forest soil biology goes out the window in this situation.
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  10. #160
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    Adventure journal had an interview with a question about that today.
    https://www.adventure-journal.com/20...out-wildfires/
    The interview is with the author of this book https://bookshop.org/books/smokescre.../9780813181073

    One of the things you cover extensively in the book is why logging after fires can be so ecologically detrimental. Why are these so-called “snag” forests of dead trees so important?
    Fires, including mixed-intensity fires, have been burning in the forests of this planet for over 350 million years. We’ve had fires, including high-intensity fire patches, in our forests since 100 million years before the dinosaurs walked the Earth. These are deep evolutionary processes, and there’s a deep evolutionary history of dependence and relationships with ecosystems and wildlife species related to that.

    And it’s not just fire that burns at low intensity and creeps along the surface. Some species like that just fine, but others like it hot and they need the areas where fire burns more intensely and kills most, or all, the trees in patches.

    It turns out that these places where fire or drought or other natural processes kill most or all the trees, these places are not destroyed. They’re not damaged from a biodiversity standpoint. They’re ecological treasures.

    These snag forests are oftentimes areas that support the single highest levels of wildlife abundance and diversity in the entire forest ecosystem in a given region, provided that those areas are not subjected to post-disturbance logging — what they call “salvage logging” — which destroys all that wonderful rich complex habitat by taking away those dead trees that so many wildlife species need.

  11. #161
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    Oh, I see this is just a state forest, not National Forest or Wilderness. State Forests in Oregon and Washington are mostly managed as timber land anyway. Bottom line, Santiam Forest is very small, probably not many people recreate there (because it is ugly clear cut). So who really gives a fuck one way or another.

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