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  1. #1
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    Mountain Biking in Colorado State Wildlife Areas?

    We have great riding in Durango but there is this awkward little wedge of land that is designated CO State Wildlife Area. There are two trails, both posted “no bikes” (Perins Peak and Dry Gulch). They are both excellent trails, and if they were open to riding it would allow some great looping options (Dry Gulch would offer awesome in-town access to Dry Fork/Hoffeins to loop CT. And Twin Buttes->Perins would be sick.)

    I don’t know much about this land designation. But wondering if anyone else has CO State Wildlife Areas that allow bikes? If so, I may try and see if I can start some process allowing bikes back there. It would seem to me if you can go back there to shoot an elk you should also be allowed to ride a bike.

    Anyone?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Tonics View Post
    We have great riding in Durango but there is this awkward little wedge of land that is designated CO State Wildlife Area. There are two trails, both posted “no bikes” (Perins Peak and Dry Gulch). They are both excellent trails, and if they were open to riding it would allow some great looping options (Dry Gulch would offer awesome in-town access to Dry Fork/Hoffeins to loop CT. And Twin Buttes->Perins would be sick.)

    I don’t know much about this land designation. But wondering if anyone else has CO State Wildlife Areas that allow bikes? If so, I may try and see if I can start some process allowing bikes back there. It would seem to me if you can go back there to shoot an elk you should also be allowed to ride a bike.

    Anyone?
    Nope - from my understanding, those lands are held by the Colorado State Land Trust for "specific" purposes, and if your purpose isn't the "specific" one, you're out of luck. You might contact someone in the VVMTA (https://www.vvmta.org/), as I believe they dealt with this on the Whiskey Creek trail. The bottom of this trail entered CSLT land set aside for hunting and fishing, and if you weren't hunting or fishing, it was off-limits.

    VVMTA got past this by actually building a new trail outside of the CSLT land (Everkrisp) that simply avoided the small section of hunting land at the bottom.

  3. #3
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    We have a similar issue in California with lands owned by CA Dept of Fish & Wildlife. They consider biking to be incompatible so it is not allowed unless it is specifically written into their land use regs as allowed. In some of these parcels no public access is allowed. Problem in San Diego is the land they own here is typically mitigation land purchased to offset various developments, and the city has expanded around them. So you'll have 10s of 1,000s of homes surrounding these open areas which are all but unmanaged. Then CA F&W gets all outraged when people try to use the open space they always thought of as a park. Bikes seem to receive far more of their attention than other users. It is possible to change the regs to allow bikes but you have to go all the way to the Fish & Game commission to do so. You'd need support of the commissioners and the local land managers, and not have massive opposition from the local wildernuts. Basically in Socal there's little hope... In Durango I'd think you'd be able to pull it off.

  4. #4
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    Strap a pistol to your handlebars and tell them your hunting. Coyotes open all year.

  5. #5
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    From today's paper, if that offers any clarification.

    https://durangoherald.com/articles/3...otect-wildlife

    I don't fully understand where the closure of Perrins is/was.

    I'd gladly let them have Animas Mountain for new trails somewhere else.

  6. #6
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    Ah the mighty April 15 date: When muddy roads in montana dry out, when snowmobile trails in wyoming magically melt, when ungulates in CO finish the migration race, when ski areas on CA must shut down because plants know to appear on April 16


    That's when you can tell an agency hasn't done real homework. April 15 is always the lazy default. Always, for everything.




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    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Ah the mighty April 15 date: When muddy roads in montana dry out, when snowmobile trails in wyoming magically melt, when ungulates in CO finish the migration race, when ski areas on CA must shut down because plants know to appear on April 16
    ]
    Yeah, set dates are dumb, except when they aren't. We constantly fight over this in my gov't office. Like, when to close and open gates, etc. When we do it by decision of condition, we're dumb bureaucrats that are lazy because we didn't want to plow the 7 miles up to the pretty mountains, then those guys are also late getting to the next section of road in front of the school bus. Someone slides off the road or gets stuck in a ditch because you skip that section of road to stay in front of the bus... also our fault. You plow it out now, and it stays dry for a while, you lose because you ruin the character..... You do it by date, and there is no snow.. dumb, you do it by date with a lot of snow early.... see above about maintaining extra roadway.

    I don't love the date thing by any means, but.... it sets certain expectations that are easier to abide by, and it keeps some consistency from manager to manager.

  8. #8
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    I read that twice and still have very little idea of what you do or are referencing beyond opening or closing a gate.

    Regardless, it's not just roads, it's wildlife, it's operating seasons on ski areas, dictated by everything from elk migration to protecting a plant that stays underground until august and even then may still be under the feet of snow that fell in March. April 15 doesn't adequately describe conditions of a road at 12k in colorado, and also a desert wash in Arizona, yet it's everywhere. If it applies, cool, run with it. But it's often laziness and the ubiquitous nature of that precise date, all over the country for all sorts of things just shows they didn't really think too hard about whatever it is they're doing.

    I recently got told by someone in the forest service that they have to do something by that date because it's the law......which is really funny because the three adjacent forests don't do it, so it's obviously not law. That date just sets off my BS detector. It's far too universally applied.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  9. #9
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    I blame the accountants.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  10. #10
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    They actually push stuff to May around Missoula and even later around Bozeman. Like July.
    But then Montanans don't like the IRS.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    They actually push stuff to May around Missoula and even later around Bozeman. Like July.
    But then Montanans don't like the IRS.
    They probably found out who your dad works for.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I read that twice and still have very little idea of what you do or are referencing beyond opening or closing a gate.

    Regardless, it's not just roads, it's wildlife, it's operating seasons on ski areas, dictated by everything from elk migration to protecting a plant that stays underground until august and even then may still be under the feet of snow that fell in March. April 15 doesn't adequately describe conditions of a road at 12k in colorado, and also a desert wash in Arizona, yet it's everywhere. If it applies, cool, run with it. But it's often laziness and the ubiquitous nature of that precise date, all over the country for all sorts of things just shows they didn't really think too hard about whatever it is they're doing.

    I recently got told by someone in the forest service that they have to do something by that date because it's the law......which is really funny because the three adjacent forests don't do it, so it's obviously not law. That date just sets off my BS detector. It's far too universally applied.
    Regarding wildlife, we use dates for that. Sometimes the Elk are where they usually are that date, sometimes not. If we were to use another metric... say, location of a certain percentage of the herd, we'd need to go out and do some sort of survey every year. We don't necessarily have staffing for that. Or if we were to go by when the trail is dry... We'd have to get 453 forms to each elk in triplicate, because we're gubmint to ask them to move to higher ground.

    Dates aren't always the best metric, but again, it's the most consistent thing we have, and many times it is good enough.

  13. #13
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    Gates that are closed to 'protect' dirt roads here get opened up on april 15 when there's 3 feet of snow sitting on the other side of them. It's brilliant.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Gates that are closed to 'protect' dirt roads here get opened up on april 15 when there's 3 feet of snow sitting on the other side of them. It's brilliant.
    We go up with equipment to clear our roads, two of which are paved... many of which are gravel and dirt. Others we have no gate on them, go up and get stuck at your own risk.

    We're not into having to go up and repair roads because people don't know what they're doing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    We go up with equipment to clear our roads, two of which are paved...
    At least as far as the FS ones are concerned that triggers a full nepa process here. Or at least that's what we're being told. I suppose it would only need to be done once though.

    Further south they'll spend 200 grand in broken plowing equipment every spring just to get some los angeles fishermen up to frozen lakes. That ends up benefiting skiing way more than fishing. But not before april 15
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    We go up with equipment to clear our roads, two of which are paved... many of which are gravel and dirt. Others we have no gate on them, go up and get stuck at your own risk.

    We're not into having to go up and repair roads because people don't know what they're doing.
    You've worked for the government for a while now, you should know by now that everyone knows how to do your job better than you do.
    "They don't think it be like it is, but it do."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo View Post
    You've worked for the government for a while now, you should know by now that everyone knows how to do your job better than you do.
    Please

    We call that public process
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo View Post
    You've worked for the government for a while now, you should know by now that everyone knows how to do your job better than you do.
    This is the correct answer.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Please

    We call that public process
    This too. I’m hoping to take this public process I’m involved in on a road show.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    They probably found out who your dad works for.
    Currently? A preschool in Oakland. No, really.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Currently? A preschool in Oakland. No, really.
    goldman sachs joke

    fuggetaboutit
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  22. #22
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    I understand that I will never live that down. I also understand that is probably for good reason.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

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