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  1. #1
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    New German-made freeride ski touring binding on the market

    The Pindung by the Bavarian Alpine Manifest has a close resemblance to the Salomon Shift and utilises a Look turntable style heelpiece. It finally made its market entry on Saturday. There is a detailed article about the binding and the company behind it on Freeskier.com:

    https://freeskier.com/product-review...J6x1QBdSO25eRU

  2. #2
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    Weights of freeride touring bindings from heaviest to lightest:

    1. v3 CAST: ~995g in touring mode/~1525g all together
    2. Marker Duke PT: ~1000g in touring mode/~1280g all together
    3. Shift: ~886g
    4. Kingpin 13: ~775g
    5. Tecton 12: ~682g

    So they're heavier than everything currently on the market in touring mode @ ~1300g.

    I wish them the best of luck but it's going to be an uphill battle. Curious as to what they'll price it at. Can't imagine it'll be any less than $500.

  3. #3
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    #searchfunctioneurojong
    #useit
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  4. #4
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyskirat View Post
    Weights of freeride touring bindings from heaviest to lightest:

    1. v3 CAST: ~995g in touring mode/~1525g all together
    2. Marker Duke PT: ~1000g in touring mode/~1280g all together
    3. Shift: ~886g
    4. Kingpin 13: ~775g
    5. Tecton 12: ~682g

    So they're heavier than everything currently on the market in touring mode @ ~1300g.

    I wish them the best of luck but it's going to be an uphill battle. Curious as to what they'll price it at. Can't imagine it'll be any less than $500.
    Let's start with pointing out that only the three first ones on the list are comparable to the Pindung - the last two on the list rely on the pins also on the way down and we all know the limitations, that cause for your skiing. We can then take a closer look at the term "weight in touring mode". This is a fancy way of saying that you're carrying the weight of the toe piece either in your pocket or backpack (taking the toe piece off the new Marker Duke is optional by the way).

    We can leave out the fact that having to dismantle your binding and stashing parts of it in your backpack every time you want switch to touring mode is not very practical and concentrate only on the weight. I don't really understand what difference does it make in a pin uphill system whether you carry the removable toe piece weight on the ski or in your backpack - its still on you and you're not lifting it with your feet on either option - so removing that weight in the list from the so called touring weight, as if it by some miracle wasn't there, is just crazy.

    When we have sorted that out, we can take a realistic look at the weights on the list:

    1. Cast is the heaviest system and weighs around 1500 g - it is also by far the burliest of all, but you have to swap the toe piece every time you want to switch between touring and skiing modes
    2. The new Marker Duke and B.A.M. Pindung weigh around 1300 g - they are both probably the second burliest option after the Cast system when it comes to downhill performance, and you don't have to swap the toe piece (optional on Duke)
    3. The Salomon Shift weighs around 886, but it is probably less burly than any of the above three bindings.

    So, when you look at it realistically, the Pindung, as well as the new Duke, could be a desirable option for the niche segment of skiers, who don't want to compromise on the way down, but still want a pin system to get up. Time will tell how well either of these new bindings will perform in tests and regarding longterm durability.

  5. #5
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    #searchfunctioneurojong
    #useit

    Don't know what the hell you mean, but before posting I used the search function with the term "Pindung" and got nothing.

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    The whole "you're not really lifting the weight with your feet, it's like rolling a suitcase argument" is kinda bullshit. There's a reason that dedicated touring binding manufacturers keep working hard to shave grams.

    That said, this clearly isn't a dedicated touring binding, and the weight doesn't seem unreasonable for what it is.

    As with any binding, especially one with a shitload of moving parts, and especially especially one from a small, unproven manufacturer, I'll wait for generation 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    As with any binding, especially one with a shitload of moving parts, and especially especially one from a small, unproven manufacturer, I'll wait for generation 2.
    This is the biggest hindrance to the Pindung.

    CAST is the most comparable system of the three major ones and it is based off an established platform. Yes, there are definitely parts that are moving and are susceptible to user error, but on the whole it's a relatively simple and straightforward platform. The only modification required is the toe pedestal and the only moving parts are the attachment point. That's minimal, almost nonexistent compared to the Pindung.

    We've seen what can happen to rushed bindings. Broken pins, finicky attachment points, broken rails, weird AFD tricks, etc. and now we have Pindung admitting they've had to change their materials as well as part of their toe plate adjustment system means few may be willing to take the chance.

    I hope they make it. I imagine if they're a success, they'll be bought up by someone (Tyrolia maybe?) but hitting 3,500 pairs this season is going to be hard.

    Again, I hope it works but they're facing an uphill battle.

    Edit: Also not sure why they got rid of two climbing bars. It looks like older models had 2, the current has 1.

    That would at least differentiate themselves from Marker and Atomic/Salomon.

  8. #8
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The whole "you're not really lifting the weight with your feet, it's like rolling a suitcase argument" is kinda bullshit. There's a reason that dedicated touring binding manufacturers keep working hard to shave grams.

    That said, this clearly isn't a dedicated touring binding, and the weight doesn't seem unreasonable for what it is.

    As with any binding, especially one with a shitload of moving parts, and especially especially one from a small, unproven manufacturer, I'll wait for generation 2.
    If you're doing a lot of vertical in big mountains then, like you said, you might be better off with a dedicated touring binding. I think the Cast, Duke, Shift and the Pindung all target the skiers looking for that do-it-all binding with a focus on the way down.

    Even the Shift has had some quality issues, so you never know. From what I have understood the Shift has around 150 parts and the Pindung around 80, so that could play to their advantage.

  9. #9
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyskirat View Post
    This is the biggest hindrance to the Pindung.

    CAST is the most comparable system of the three major ones and it is based off an established platform. Yes, there are definitely parts that are moving and are susceptible to user error, but on the whole it's a relatively simple and straightforward platform. The only modification required is the toe pedestal and the only moving parts are the attachment point. That's minimal, almost nonexistent compared to the Pindung.

    We've seen what can happen to rushed bindings. Broken pins, finicky attachment points, broken rails, weird AFD tricks, etc. and now we have Pindung admitting they've had to change their materials as well as part of their toe plate adjustment system means few may be willing to take the chance.

    I hope they make it. I imagine if they're a success, they'll be bought up by someone (Tyrolia maybe?) but hitting 3,500 pairs this season is going to be hard.

    Again, I hope it works but they're facing an uphill battle.

    Edit: Also not sure why they got rid of two climbing bars. It looks like older models had 2, the current has 1.

    That would at least differentiate themselves from Marker and Atomic/Salomon.
    I guess it is still a good thing that they they were meticulous and did those material changes before releasing the product, which could have resulted in a lot of reclamation cases?

    Sure, it won't be an easy task to convince people - I would think a lot of it will rely on how well they do in ski tests.

  10. #10
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    Having met and skied with Bambam last year, im thinking these are going to be good. We had a few really good days and the big guy was ripping on the pindung's. I was really impressed with the function and build of the binding. Function was very smooth and had a solid well engineered feel. Bambam was insistent on having the product fully dialed before release. I thought they were ready but maybe it was the boot sole interface thing he had to change. All the functions seemed so solid and smooth. They actually felt better than the current alpine bindings on the market.
    Truly wish him the best of luck. A humble ski bum that just wants to rip around the mt. Amazing what hes put together. Builds some nice looking skis too

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ-SI View Post
    I guess it is still a good thing that they they were meticulous and did those material changes before releasing the product, which could have resulted in a lot of reclamation cases?

    Sure, it won't be an easy task to convince people - I would think a lot of it will rely on how well they do in ski tests.
    Oh definitely a good thing but it may make people hesitant.

    I imagine they'll need to find an online retailer to partner with or they're going to struggle finding a market foothold in the US.

    I want to see it work, that's for sure.

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    Pins have limitations so does weight and any transition activity. Nothing will do it all and the side country market is different from touring market. Also marker anything is pretty sketch for me personally.


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    Hasn't a non-commercial binding similar to this been around here for years? P14 heel with dynafit toe? Anyway, sounds like a nice alternative to a baron/duke/shift, but really nothing very innovative.
    Last edited by schindlerpiste; 11-11-2019 at 03:33 PM.
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    Hope they do well, probably not for me but certainly some other folks.
    watch out for snakes

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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    Hasn't a non-commercial binding similar to this been around here for years? P14 heel with dynafit toe? Anyway, sounds like a nice alternative to a baron/duke/shift, but really nothing very innovative.
    Sounds like you're thinking of CAST. Biggest downside of CAST is it's a much more involved transition to go from touring to alpine compared to Shift/Tecton/Kingpin. I agree, nothing groundbreaking but good to have another competitor thrown in the mix.

  16. #16
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Attachment 302132

    B.A.M. just posted the new look of the finished Pindung on their Facebook page. Some colour has been added to the mix.

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    It is too bad they didnt manage to get to the market ~2 years ago, that would've given them a better start. Now they have to compete (catch up) with the shift and second gen Cast. I dig the whole built-by-skibums vibe and rather support them than Amer, but from readin the artice i get the impression that one more unforeseen setback may end the business. Which may very well be the way all small companies start
    Anyway, I wish them the best of luck and hope they make it. It is so cool to see how much development has happened in the last 4 years or so (since the dynafit patent ended?). Remeber when it was either Duke or dynafit? We are lucky.

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    just watch from the sidelines, itll iterate and get better. hardware moves so slow. Salomon did like 5-7 years of product testing and feedback from pros, which is the only reason it is unchanged 2 years out the gates. and it has its own quirks.

    On a newcomer, i'd wait. And i picked up shifts sign unseen and xenics sight unseen.
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  19. #19
    JJ-SI is offline Slush is only melted pow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    just watch from the sidelines, itll iterate and get better. hardware moves so slow. Salomon did like 5-7 years of product testing and feedback from pros, which is the only reason it is unchanged 2 years out the gates. and it has its own quirks.

    On a newcomer, i'd wait. And i picked up shifts sign unseen and xenics sight unseen.
    Salomon did a pretty good job at testing and tweaking the Shift enough before the release - unlike quite a lot of other manufacturers and their first offering on the ski touring binding market.

    Somehow, the much overdue release and elongated R & D process of the Pindung could play to their advantage. By not releasing the binding between 2016 and the 2019 ski season (they could have in January 2019, but decided not to), has maybe forced them to test and tweak them (they have used pro, if not big-name, riders) enough to not have serious issues right after its release.
    Last edited by JJ-SI; 11-14-2019 at 09:21 AM.

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    Hey JJ, you know what would be nice in your freeskier piece?

    A decent picture of the damn binding.



    Sounds like a neat option none the less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ-SI View Post
    I don't really understand what difference does it make in a pin uphill system whether you carry the removable toe piece weight on the ski or in your backpack - its still on you and you're not lifting it with your feet on either option - so removing that weight in the list from the so called touring weight, as if it by some miracle wasn't there, is just crazy.
    Let's gloss over the part where you say you don't understand something and then try to argue why it's irrelevant

    It's REALLY simple physics that can be illustrated using the basic work equation. (sorry going to be using "been to the moon" units)
    Work = Force i.e. mass * acceleration * Distance
    I'm going to disregard the acceleration bit to make this easier to explain. Let's say you're carrying a 2lb weight in your backpack and you are walking on a trail a mile long. The distance that the weight travels is pretty much a parallel line to that trail. Now we'll strap that 2lbs to one of your feet. The distance that 2lbs is going to travel is going to be further since your feet are going to be lifting up and be brought back down in addition to actually traveling the 1 mile distance of the trail.

    So let's use some ball park numbers
    - 1 mile (63360 inches) is about 2000 steps
    - Each step raises your foot about 3 inches (we'll simplify this as just counting the pure up and down movement) so 6" total for each step.
    -So the steps are adding 12000 extra inches.
    -We'll round up 63360" to 63500" (140" extra) to take into account your core moves a little when you walk.

    We'll disregard units in the work equation to make it easier to follow.
    Amount of work done with weight in backpack
    Work = 2 * (63360 + 140)
    Work = 127000

    Amount of work done with weight on feet
    Work = 2 * (63360 + 12000)
    Work = 150720

    TL;DR
    More work is done when it's on your feet, and science proves it.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

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    Yes ive always gone by the 5 to 1 rule. 5lbs on your back is equal to 1lb on your foot. Close enough i guess.
    Anyway, its designed as a slackcountry binding that csn shred daily on the hill. From what ive seen its incredibly well designed. I wish everyone could get to see one in person and cucle it through its settings. Everything snapped solidlh into place znd in the movements the tolerances seemed really tight. It was very smooth even though bambam had been skiing on it a while. It was like all the movements had tiny forces stabilizing it until it thunked into place, both the throw on the toe from climb to ski mode and the heel dildo. Just no rattly bits. Heel dildo almost seemed to function smoother than a look dildo. Gave a very solid impression. Same with the heel risers. They had a definitive snap into place along with the brake retainer and again smooth action. No grinding or scraping or rattling anywhere just smooth action.
    Im going to try and get a pair to get some actual time on them. Ive just cycled them through the functions a few times and watched bambam rip around rmr with them. Nice pow day but the hill had everything by the end.The big guy seemed to be always at a high rate of speed. A few launchers and some bumped out runs snd high speed mixed bags to the bottom. From what ive seen i totally trust them to ski on. On the hill we didnt need to tour those days so didnt get a chance to see them function in tour mode. Looked pretty slick though

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  23. #23
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    Read the thread, googled- still canít see how to purchase or how much it costs?

    If this thing costs $300, Iím a buyer.

    If this is $800, whatís the point.

    Beuller?!

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    Ill see what i can find out

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