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  1. #1401
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    Dec 2009
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    smog lake shitty
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    286
    If anyone thinks I'm trying to justify the decision making or shift blame here because he was a friend - I'm not, so you can save your admonishments. It's not difficult for me to objectively recognize that: A) BC skiing right now in any form is inherently selfish and risks tying up resources that can be better used elsewhere (I stopped skiing for the season entirely three weeks ago, and I've encouraged anyone that will listen to do the same) and B) that there was a failure in decision making and safety protocol.

    Any time someone dies in an avalanche, it's self-evident that the process broke down somewhere. People don't die in avalanches because they made good decisions. It's difficult for me to believe that his beacon was off because he just didn't turn it on, but I also don't really care to speculate, because it doesn't really matter in the end. It was off and it made a bad situation worse. It might have cost him his life, and at the very least, it sure as hell made recovery a lot more difficult.

    If anything, my only point in posting in the first place was this: if you're still skiing right now, and think that due to your skill/terrain choice it's entirely inconceivable that you could end up in a situation where you make a mistake that requires extraction, or god forbid, body recovery, you're living in a fantasy and this might be a good opportunity to do some self reflection. Just a week ago, some guy broke his femur in Utah skiing out of Beartrap Fork in Big Cottonwood Canyon, which, if you're not familiar, is just about the most lame ass chicken shit flat ski terrain in the entire Wasatch range. I'm sure he thought he was being responsible by skiing "safe" terrain.

  2. #1402
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    T.ride
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    1,813
    Quote Originally Posted by haysman16 View Post
    really not wanting to armchair quarterback, but this is not the avy centers fault. Moderate or Considerable is not going to make a difference if you are dropping the skiers right side of the South Face at 3pm in April (not going to even touch the beacon issue).

    Dude made a poor decision and not only did it cost him big time but it also exposed 50 people to each other who should be home and just gives more ammo to the higher ups to just close access during all this. Decisions don’t just effect you and your partners these days.
    Condolences to the victim's family and friends but if there is any common thread between the accidents and close calls we have been seeing recently it's the time of day. The last few accidents here in the san juans, the Superior close call, etc. I don't have enough knowledge of teton pass to say that line wouldn't have slid earlier in the day but let's tighten it up people, get up a little earlier or just call it once the sun starts cooking.

  3. #1403
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Behind the Potato Curtain
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    I wasn’t on the pass, but was out and about that and it was cold/cloudy/snowy for the majority if not all of it.

  4. #1404
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    Well said PC.

    Far too many people are still skiing high consequence terrain thinking they have dialed it back and not just in the Tetons.

    Sorry about your friend.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  5. #1405
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    bottom of the hobacks
    Posts
    561
    My comments were certainly not directed at yours Peacecoast. Sorry if they were recieved that way.

    There were a few comments on the last page about the forcast, and I've heard the same sentiments from a few others in person. That people felt the day should have been called considerable...ect.

    My only point was that I think our perception of what "moderate" stands for on the danger scale can get skewed sometimes.

    Vibes to all involved, I'm sorry for your loss Peacecoast.
    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    Keystone is the new Snowbird

  6. #1406
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    Jan 2009
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    Behind the Potato Curtain
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    We seem to have this conversation every year when there are near misses on 'spicy moderate' days as we've heard them labelled. When Mike K was killed on Pucker Face in 13' it was a moderate day that many questioned after a big upside down storm cycle with a persistent weak layer. All the signs pointed toward more elevated avalanche conditions to many. I'm thankful for our Avy forecasters, and storms this time of year can be tough to give a blanket label to. I'm confident depending on aspect etc you could have found low to very considerable danger on the day of this incident. RIP to deceased and a big thanks to the forecasters and SAR folks who look out for us. It's surprising just given the shear number of people who get after it in the BC here we don't have more skier fatalities.

    Don't let your guard down, I'm hearing of a sled fatality today in the Snake River Range today. Stay safe and sane folks. These are strange times.

  7. #1407
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    1,572
    Obviously I have no idea what went through the head of the deceased or his partner, but Considerable hazard doesn't seem to slow many Teton skiers down from skiing high consequence terrain.

  8. #1408
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    JAC
    Posts
    1,299
    Well sometimes the rating doesn't relate well/acurate to the actual slope your about to ski...the exact situation that we are talking about here. That is why everyone is responsible for their own actions in every situation and should NEVER follow blindly what the overall report is saying. Spacial variability. Things are rarely totally consistent other than the rare storms that come in super stable or on the flip side when everything is falling off of the mountain all around you...then it's easy.

  9. #1409
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by wstdeep View Post
    Well sometimes the rating doesn't relate well/acurate to the actual slope your about to ski...the exact situation that we are talking about here. That is why everyone is responsible for their own actions in every situation and should NEVER follow blindly what the overall report is saying. Spacial variability. Things are rarely totally consistent other than the rare storms that come in super stable or on the flip side when everything is falling off of the mountain all around you...then it's easy.
    Very true. My point was more that it wouldn't (and to your point shouldn't) have mattered.

  10. #1410
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    1,435
    It is just plain arrogant at this point to get in your car and go up to the pass for skiing. Good god people, winter comes every year. Stay the fack home.

  11. #1411
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    And not to continue to flail that dead horse but, the advisories are merely forecasts for a wide range of areas/aspects/elevations somewhat like a weather forecast except with a much more dramatic potential outcome.

    That is why everyone is responsible for their own actions in every situation and should NEVER follow blindly what the overall report is saying. Spacial variability.
    Shout that from the rooftops!
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  12. #1412
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Down on Electric Avenue
    Posts
    4,405
    Rendezvous Bowl looks as full as I've ever seen it. No tracks since the Ides of March.
    Closed at 461"; headwall plot is at 519" now...almost 5 feet in last 3 weeks.
    8 days left in the season.

    447" for the 'Ghee

    fuk'n uploader can bite me.
    Had a nice pic of the bowl packed full.

  13. #1413
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    Jan 2009
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    Behind the Potato Curtain
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    Rob Kincaid killed in that slide in Palisades yesterday. Teton Valley resident, pretty big deal in the brapping world. Nice guy, feel for his family.

  14. #1414
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,572
    Yeah, quite sad about Rob. I didn't know him well, but know many who did. That's a big hole in the community.

  15. #1415
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    the rock SE IDAHO
    Posts
    316

  16. #1416
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    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    Are you fucking kidding me??????
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  17. #1417
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tetons
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    6,384
    Quote Originally Posted by beer30 View Post
    It is just plain arrogant at this point to get in your car and go up to the pass for skiing. Good god people, winter comes every year. Stay the fack home.
    Agree with you, B30. Although, some recreation I think can fall under “essential”, guidelines.

    Easier for me as I’m not skiing do to injury but I will admit, I enjoyed the shit out of my 1 hour drive around the valley today. Good tunes. Sunshine.

  18. #1418
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Tetonia
    Posts
    246

    Jackson Hole 2019-2020 - &amp; The 'Ghee, The King, Kelly Canyon, Pebble Creek

    Quote Originally Posted by beer30 View Post
    It is just plain arrogant at this point to get in your car and go up to the pass for skiing. Good god people, winter comes every year. Stay the fack home.
    Yeah as much as I hate to hang it up, it might be time. While I probably have a better chance of breaking my leg on the icy steps of my front porch than I do skiing the mellow, I don’t want have to call SAR because something went south on me. Time to get out the fly rod.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #1419
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,327
    Quote Originally Posted by gtid View Post
    Yeah as much as I hate to hang it up, it might be time. While I probably have a better chance of breaking my leg on the icy steps of my front porch than I do skiing the mellow, I don’t want have to call SAR because something went south on me. Time to get out the fly rod.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I’m mostly right there with you. Sleds getting some end of season work done Monday then into storage, alpine skis are getting a heavy coat of wax, I’ll keep my touring skis handy for a lap up SK a few times a week. Figure I can get myself down SK and to the ER with out calling SAR.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  20. #1420
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    I have both broken six ribs and torn my ACL/etc on Snow King. The ACL was skiing with my 4 YO on groomers.
    Both involved patrol, but not SAR.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  21. #1421
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,572
    So if mellow backcountry skiing is out, what's in? SAR gets called out for fishing/boating incidents. Road biking is far too dangerous for me. I broke my collarbone once riding around the neighborhood, that was an ER trip. I feel like I'm less likely to put the system at stress skiing than almost anything else I do. It's the only thing I'm actually good at.

  22. #1422
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    3
    Point considered, Beer30. There is a point here, but this is sort of a false dilemma. It CAN be arrogant to go out, but there's a difference between skiing dangerous terrain and choosing conservative routes in moderate danger, which most skiers have done, did on that day, and will continue to do. If you walk from your house to your car, drive to the lot alone, stay distanced from folks, skin up, ski down, get in your car, drive back home, what's the problem? With self-serve gas pumps and gloves, that's tantamount to self-isolation. Might you get hurt unexpectedly? Maybe, but conservative choices in the BC equate to, as mentioned already, riding your bike along a highway (did that today myself, and some kid in a Mazda got way too close for comfort at 60 mph--maybe that's irresponsible?), or taking a run, or driving your car. We could run statistics on avalanche burials per skier capita vs more common "approved" accidents. I'm not saying it's not safe just to stay home--that's more certain--but if the yardstick is risk of injury, then all sorts of otherwise innocuous pursuits would fit that metric. Bureaucracy has to paint with a wide brush to cover all types of judgment (not apropos, necessarily, of recent events). But common sense plays a role, too. It's not all or nothing.

    Be responsible and stay safe, both from slides and viruses.

    Cheers.

  23. #1423
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    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    So if mellow backcountry skiing is out, what's in? SAR gets called out for fishing/boating incidents. Road biking is far too dangerous for me. I broke my collarbone once riding around the neighborhood, that was an ER trip. I feel like I'm less likely to put the system at stress skiing than almost anything else I do. It's the only thing I'm actually good at.
    Meh, a wise friend of mine posted this.
    Quote Originally Posted by homemadesalsa View Post

    We skied blue runs at Targhee today and it was lovely. Everyone was on their best behavior.
    Seems reasonable to me.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  24. #1424
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    Those two should really meet IRL.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  25. #1425
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Behind the Potato Curtain
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Those two should really meet IRL.
    They really should...

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