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  1. #151
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    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/a...FI_2018_en.pdf

    Maybe someone can help make sense of those figures from Amer's business practices and sourcing infos.



    Also worth exploring:

    SMART Myanmar (also see arcteryx statement about Myanmar https://blog.arcteryx.com/arcteryx-in-myanmar/ and related factoids/news Myanmar’s garment industry is set to rival China)
    https://www.smartmyanmar.org/en

    Myanmar has made some moves to improve working conditions in the country, with the minimum wage rising from 3,600 kyat ($2.70) a day to 4,800 kyat ($3.50). But that minimum wage is still one of the lowest in Asia, putting further financial strain on women who are already endure discrimination with every paycheck.
    As per Arcteryx statement (see myanmar blog) about this "We continually assess whether pulling out of the country is the smartest path. While we do not want to give up on the progress we’ve made with the employees and facilities nor on the social impact projects that we’ve led, we also do not want to support the actions of the government or its neglect of human rights." One has to wonder why they pulled out of Canada (mostly, right?) and moved to Asian production (esp to lowest cost Myanmar). Surely a $900 jacket contains enough profit margin to support production in any of those countries (incl. Canada). Indeed, conditions in Myanmar are eye watering. It couldn't get worse. I suppose this will work well for brands that want to show progress.

    If I was them, I'd keep production in Myanmar because it has lax laws, a brutal military regime and
    it is the fucking cheapest!

    The Social and Labor Convergence Program
    https://slconvergence.org/

    Sustainable Apparel Coalition
    https://apparelcoalition.org/

    Better Factories Cambodia
    https://betterwork.org/where-we-work/cambodia/
    Last edited by puregravity; 12-28-2019 at 03:42 AM.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  2. #152
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    Through panjiva.com and www.importgenius.com, you can
    search for the brands you are buying,
    identify the product codes and names
    and then trace them to the supplier, incl. address, which often provides photos and videos and news of the factory via Google.

    For example,

    https://panjiva.com/Zkg-Asia-Ltd/36252432 is an supplier to a well known brand.
    The bill of lading (click first one) shows the product codes, takes you to the supplier address.
    So you now know that those are made here: https://goo.gl/maps/NpdwDHENm7BP6erYA

    Or this one, https://www.importgenius.com/importe...-division-of-a
    Click 'shipments' and then click on the shipment of interest. Such as the one with "ATOM LT JACKET MEN S" in it.
    Which points to "LALMAI SPORTS WEAR IND. LTD." apparently shipment of origin is Singapore.
    But that's fucked up, because they are actually "LALMAI SPORTSWEAR IND. LTD.
    SECTOR 3, DHAKA, BANGLADESH". And you can google that to find some interesting stiff too incl. employee riots (RMG workers go berserk), interesting street-view photos etc.


    I didn't select those co's by purpose.
    They just came up as one of many from a brands listed suppliers, vis-a-vis a few quick industry searches.
    Many of the suppliers serve multiple name brands.
    Dead Bird's data was convenient and I harbor no prejudice toward any particular supplier or producer or brand. It's all the same shtick.


    PS - Contrary to what some might think, I highly doubt that the workers making $56 knockoffs are any worse off than the workers for $900 authentic brand items. Sorry. I just don't buy that.
    In fact, the knockoffs might be the smaller more conscientious operations, with more loyal staff, and have better working conditions due to the lack of profit leaching from shareholders and head honchos in the brand hierarchy. And they don't have to hire expensive consultants to provide conscience inspiring 'labor audits' because they know they suck and they would rather put that into offering a plausible product and keep the money to benefit their smaller workforce.
    Last edited by puregravity; 12-28-2019 at 03:47 AM.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  3. #153
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    It was more fun than Polyass but it no longer amuses me.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    It was more fun than Polyass but it no longer amuses me.
    I wouldn't be amused if I found out that the supposed $37 cost basis jacket
    , selling for over $500 in a ski village store,
    was made in Mynanmar,
    by someone earning less than $4 per day,
    and working in atrocious conditions (albeit sanitary and well organized),
    and the supplies and materials provided by a host of non-audited suppliers,
    in tax and DUTY FREE zones across Asia,
    resulting in the likelyhood that said $37 jacket (cost basis)
    is actually made for less than $12.50.

    Nope.
    Nothing funny about that.

    Esp. when looking at the skyrocketing share prices of said big brands,
    and considering that we are obsessed with our carbon footprint,
    whilst not noticing that the cornices we drop
    and pillows we stomp
    and powder we shred
    is tainted by the sweat, blood and tears,
    of someones big sister
    working overseas in 'well audited and compliant' sports apparel garment factories.

    It is probably best if we don't talk about it.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  5. #155
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    And let's not even start to think about harvesting down. I'd suggest professionaly administered medication of some sort.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  6. #156
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    I’m just drunk enough to re-engage briefly on this topic. How do you know the garment workers in sweatshops would have better lives without the sweatshops? If the workers would have worse lives if the sweatshops went away, is it actually unethical to buy garments they make?

    There are arguments for buying American that resonate with me, but concern over labor conditions in the supply chain are mostly not among them. Of course there are exceptions to that general statement.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    And let's not even start to think about harvesting down. I'd suggest professionaly administered medication of some sort.
    I switched to Patagonia Micro/Macro Puff for that reason.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbIdeasOnly View Post
    I’m just drunk enough to re-engage briefly on this topic. How do you know the garment workers in sweatshops would have better lives without the sweatshops? If the workers would have worse lives if the sweatshops went away, is it actually unethical to buy garments they make?

    There are arguments for buying American that resonate with me, but concern over labor conditions in the supply chain are mostly not among them. Of course there are exceptions to that general statement.
    Those are tough questions.
    I agree with that reasoning.

    However, if the company said, "we will only buy from you if you pay your workers more and give them better conditions" and to that effect "we will increase what we pay you in order to facilitate that" then there exists a non-zero chance that factories would accept said offer.

    Why is production switching to even lower cost centers like Myanmar (from China and other previously thought bottom-of-the-barrel options)?
    To satisfy the ever increasing profit motive.
    It isn't actually to compete as many of these companies are doing well already.
    The share prices of these companies has skyrocketed in the last 5 years coinciding with the same gains in retail profit margins.

    The brands have amalgamated and conglomerated into more opaque organizations,
    with ever larger investor profits,
    as they have moved production to even cheaper and more lucrative locales.


    And now factories in China and India and Bangladesh are suffering, the workers promised wage increases denied,
    because a poorer region was found that can move factories to.

    It almost sounds like the US and Canadian auto industry moving to Mexico.
    And after the auto plants are paid off, and the toxic wastes disposed, they will probably also move the car production out of Mexico and to some other
    cheaper area.
    Not because auto makers are losing money.
    They are actually very profitable at the moment.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  9. #159
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    For warmth, I'm into vintage wool garments made in N American or European countries that my wife finds at thrift stores.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  10. #160
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    What I'd like to know is why someone would pose this question on TGR? No mfg. is going to provide you with their production costs. And anyone who works in mfg. isn't or shouldn't provide this information either. Same goes for anyone in sourcing. NDA's and all that legal stuff. Besides everyone on TGR works in the dental industry, retired or unemployed.

    You could always start up an LLP and put out an RFQ and go from there.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    What I'd like to know is why someone would pose this question on TGR? No mfg. is going to provide you with their production costs. And anyone who works in mfg. isn't or shouldn't provide this information either. Same goes for anyone in sourcing. NDA's and all that legal stuff. Besides everyone on TGR works in the dental industry, retired or unemployed.

    You could always start up an LLP and put out an RFQ and go from there.
    A lot of this information is freely available vis-a-vis international shipping registrations, or obtainable through collected government trade data,
    or can be extrapolated from financial reports (shareholders want and need this competitive info),
    or is leaked,
    or is provided (MiCol)
    or can be somewhat inferred.

    The question I have, is why someone wouldn't pose this question on TGR?
    We all covet the outdoors and risk taking and seemingly respect nature and camaraderie in every way.
    Why would that social connection and responsibility end here, a place where there is no end to commercial innovation and technological critique?


    How a pay raise killed workers: The story of a North Face manufacturer in Bangladesh
    http://www.hani.co.kr/interactive/bangla/english.html


    Are you going to buy another ski this year?
    Then what happens to the old one? Landfil? Toxic waste?
    Where will the new one be made, under what worker conditions, within what social-political environment?
    Would you choose a different brand, even a less innovative ski, if the ski mfg. appealed to you more?
    If the workers earned a living wage?

    What is the provenance of our goods? What are the social and economic ramifications of brand A vs B?
    If we don't inquire, we know nothing.

    It is a discussion that needs to be had if we want to be more than just consumers of experiences and players in the economic game of ski.
    Our collective conscience depends on the inquiries that expose the shadows of our sport.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post

    However, if the company said, "we will only buy from you if you pay your workers more and give them better conditions" and to that effect "we will increase what we pay you in order to facilitate that" then there exists a non-zero chance that factories would accept said offer.

    Why is production switching to even lower cost centers like Myanmar (from China and other previously thought bottom-of-the-barrel options)?
    To satisfy the ever increasing profit motive.
    It isn't actually to compete as many of these companies are doing well already.
    The share prices of these companies has skyrocketed in the last 5 years coinciding with the same gains in retail profit margins.

    The brands have amalgamated and conglomerated into more opaque organizations,
    with ever larger investor profits,
    as they have moved production to even cheaper and more lucrative locales.


    And now factories in China and India and Bangladesh are suffering, the workers promised wage increases denied,
    because a poorer region was found that can move factories to.
    You’re thinking about costs of manufacturing and corporate profitability as dials someone is choosing to turn or not. I think most of these companies don’t have anywhere near that level of control and would go bankrupt long term if they chose to incur a 20% cost of goods sold handicap by offering to pay people more.

    The only way out of the box is if the consumers can be convinced to pay more to “virtue signal” by wearing clothing made by people paid a living wage (or “fair trade” certified or whatever the actual label says).

    In a totally different direction, if you really accept my point that people working in what you perceive to be a sweatshop may be doing the best they can, then why do you care about brands relocating to cheaper countries? The lowest cost country is the one where people have the worst alternative to working in a sweatshop. Sad and fucked up but true (at least as a general matter). Is there something about the person doing it currently that makes them especially deserving of a higher wage instead of a needier person in the next country down the list getting paid less to do the same job?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    I don’t have time to read this whole thread. But just to say my next jacket will be freeride systems.
    Ha. Glad someone else was feeling this way. Felt proud to own a piece from them - particularly in the current environment and I was also really impressed with micol’s response. Fantastic content.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbIdeasOnly View Post
    You’re thinking about costs of manufacturing and corporate profitability as dials someone is choosing to turn or not. I think most of these companies don’t have anywhere near that level of control and would go bankrupt long term if they chose to incur a 20% cost of goods sold handicap by offering to pay people more.

    The only way out of the box is if the consumers can be convinced to pay more to “virtue signal” by wearing clothing made by people paid a living wage (or “fair trade” certified or whatever the actual label says).

    In a totally different direction, if you really accept my point that people working in what you perceive to be a sweatshop may be doing the best they can, then why do you care about brands relocating to cheaper countries? The lowest cost country is the one where people have the worst alternative to working in a sweatshop. Sad and fucked up but true (at least as a general matter). Is there something about the person doing it currently that makes them especially deserving of a higher wage instead of a needier person in the next country down the list getting paid less to do the same job?

    I think they have lots of control - Arcteryx wasn't going bankrupt in Canada with the local salaries before they moved operations.


    Case in point - Alpha SV Jacket at current online store price of $785 USD.

    Name:  XE4guU5.png
Views: 1243
Size:  88.5 KB


    Back then, when they were making this jacket with 259 minutes of labor of production per jacket, they were not going bankrupt. Now, I'm not sure the minimum wage in Vancouver. However, I'm pretty sure they paid the people there better than minimum wage. Suppose they got paid $15 per hour, that is $65 per jacket of total labor.

    Suppose that with a move to manufacturing in Myanmar (assuming they make that one there), they ended up paying the current sub $4 per day rate* for labor. Now they pay $2.16 per jacket of labor, assuming an 8 hour work day (although probably 10 hours).

    * The new rate is $3.55, up from the rate of $2.66 since 2013. Actual is 8-hour work day, six days a week, garment workers in Myanmar will be earning a minimum wage of $85 a month.


    They were not going bankrupt at $65 labor per jacket in Canada ... and they are certainly not going bankrupt if at $2.16 labor per jacket. Remember too, the production has increased. So the volumes they are doing would have made their Canadian operation more efficient. So they could have saved not only on labor but also on sheer scale of new operations. Never mind the potential savings from Coal Based Power, local toxic waste dumping regulations, pension and benefits savings, health and safety savings, overtime rate savings, warehousing costs, part-timers, etc..

    I have no proof that they make that jacket in Myanmar and this is just a fictitious example - to illustrate regional cost of goods sold implications.

    Edit: can confirm that mittens, "Alpha Sl Glove, Alpha Sv Mitten, Down Mitten Fission Sv glove Fission Sv Mitten ... Glove Venta Ar Glove Venta "
    is made in Myanmar by Takashima Sports Co., Ltd., NO.80 AYEYARWADDY ST SHWE THAN INDUSTRIAL ZONE HLAING THAR YART/ YANGON MYANMAR.




    Financials?

    ANTA Sports Products Ltd owns a good chunk of Amer (and hence Arcteryx) and is reporting annual net profit margins of 16.76% (after salaries, bonuses, dividends, etc.) and is sitting on $8.2 BILLION dollars of cash. cash. The financial health of said company is indisputably good.

    They would not be handicapped by offering to pay people more.



    I'll let someone else respond to your last point. Essentially, I'm not so against companies moving manufacturing, if required. Are you suggesting they moved to a cheaper country in order to give the new workers a better cut than the previous workers got? No. I didn't think so. They moved to increase profits, not to increase their charity.



    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Ha. Glad someone else was feeling this way. Felt proud to own a piece from them - particularly in the current environment and I was also really impressed with micol’s response. Fantastic content.
    ^^ yes.



    Further reading:
    Why L.L. Bean's Boots Keep Selling Out
    "It has to do with the dictates of the fashion world just as much as it has to do with labor economics."


    Higher minimum wage in Myanmar: bad news for workers?
    "SOMO even found that a considerable number of workers did not even earn the then legal minimum wage, as factories were deftly avoiding paying the minimum wage by abusing the apprenticeship and probation provisions of the minimum wage law. "
    Last edited by puregravity; 12-29-2019 at 02:02 AM.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  15. #165
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    I said it before and I'll say it again, just because clothing is manufactured in the US doesn't mean that it wasn't produced using borderline slave labor. Not pointing the finger at anyone, but made in the USA doesn't guarantee shit as far as living wages or safe working conditions are concerned.

  16. #166
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    My understanding is that when Arcteryx left Canada some went to westcomb. I have four of their jackets and a pair of pants. The quality and detail is top notch. Great company and will support them canucks


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  17. #167
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    I understand that Amer seems like it could afford to pay people more and did historically (remember the conversation we had about Amer’s profit margins?). The offset in my mind is that retail is a brutally competitive business, so I don’t know how it would work out today if they had their old cost structure. It’s a very strong assumption with very little evidence that Amer can simply choose to overspend on COGS and maintain financial viability. That said, I suspect they could give modest raises and be fine (even if it would hurt shareholders). I’m not sure they could give raises that would make you happy and still be fine today no matter what they were doing 15 years ago.

    My point on relocation isn’t that they are doing it to be altruistic, it’s just that you could think of buying from the cheapest supplier as having an altruistic effect.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    fuckin nailed it!
    Fuckin' two months late but holy shit, fuckin' bullseye!

  19. #169
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    Of course, we buy our ski clothing made for $3.50 per day by Myanmar clothing factories ... which is also slavery by another name.
    Racism justified slavery in much of the world ...
    until economics justified slavery.

  20. #170
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    Long time back I went to a sewing fabricator in Seattle to see what his costs would be on a prototype. Papered windows & just an address was the location. Inside, at least a half dozen women of Asian descent sewing Exxxx Bxxxx (name withheld) down jackets and piles of finished ones. Probably paid a very meager wage while the owner profited nicely. Didn't expect that but just validated what I had suspected with some "made in the USA" stuff and those who manufacture them.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by L82thegate View Post
    Long time back I went to a sewing fabricator in Seattle to see what his costs would be on a prototype. Papered windows & just an address was the location. Inside, at least a half dozen women of Asian descent sewing Exxxx Bxxxx (name withheld) down jackets and piles of finished ones. Probably paid a very meager wage while the owner profited nicely. Didn't expect that but just validated what I had suspected with some "made in the USA" stuff and those who manufacture them.
    yeah I think your info is outdated, like last century. First let me ask what you have against those of Asian descent? FTR it is usually 1st tier American's that work in these jobs. .....legally. Quite frankly there are just not that many domestic shops left in the USA nor are there " long ago landed citizens" willing to do the work. The exception is at military contractors ops, who cannot and will not sew at commercial quality level. Like their output could never be on the rack at say REI or LL Bean hell Walmart for that matter because the military does not hold them to higher standards (but should). Eddie Bauer is (in and out) of bankruptcy and has been owned by publicly traded companies or private equity for decades and decades. They don't make in the USA. Also, any brand that makes like two styles in America and rest overseas...is not what one should be referencing as a "made in the USA" brand.

    I will give you this, military contractor owned cut and sew have owners that live in $5+ million mansions in multiple locations with 100 car exotic /classic car collections and jets and get $20-50 million dollar contracts several or more times a year. I've seen it. These plants are mostly rural and cannot sew and or tape at commercial quality. They set up shop there because it's cheap and the politicians keep shoveling them their business. Most often these plants are huge, parking lots overflowing and you will be hard pressed to find a sign at their business or a listing on Google maps. And, they pay crap to workers cause teh owner robber baron is building his/her wealth. These owners come from all isles democrat, republican, independent...their m.o.'s are get rich at taxpayer expense. They don't have signs because they don't want anyone's but the government's business, so they are not marketing themselves...

    Washington State's minimum wage is $12 hour , California is $15 hour, Appalachia may be in the $7-$8's but apartments in Appalachian communities are like $400 month and entry level houses (not mobile homes) can be had $50-$60K. And, all these per hour wages are the minimum and starting. Pros make more. But, a flaw (one of several) in your statement is the assumptive one that sewing is a catch phrase that encompasses all of those doing it. E.B. long ago moved their manufacturing overseas just like virtually every brand in America so slave labor rates do not apply in the USA. Butt, yes they do make a choice to sew with vendors overseas that pay slave labor wages so they can get rich, so they say they work for shareholders or whatever the catch phrase line of the day is.... So quit buying from your favorite ( _ _ __ _ _ _ _ __ ) fill in the blank brand (which is about all of them) because like someone said it's 5 oclock somewhere, and these brands are all using labor in deplorable conditions because YOU and many others keep buying their shit. What is YOUR justification for doing that? Go look at movie "The True Cost" on netflix and come back and talk...Many times the foreign owners come to the USA buy our real estate and run the value prices up on it so that lower wage earners are no longer able to afford homes or rentals....see the cycle? When you buy overseas, you perpetuate it if you keep buying whim goods and fav brands cause its teh thing..

    As for skillsets within the trade......You've got Yugo level sewers barely proficient that can't sew something you would buy at Walmart quality and then Ferrari sewers like what I have and a few other places and everything in between. My seam taper makes $40 an hour. I don't see that you have any concrete evidence of anything in your statements except some dated visits and current assumptions and a desire to dis Asians, people that chose to sew in USA, and "some "made in the USA" stuff and those who manufacture them." Remember made in USA brands like me do not take advantage of foreign workers in overseas locals. Why type "Exxxx Bxxxx (name withheld)". I will say it, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer, Eddie Bauer....SUCKS.....just say it.....it's liberating...and again, quit buying it.... They suck, not due to design or colorway,...they suck because they sold out for higher margins and moved overseas....just like the "dead bird"....say it.....Arc'teryx,,,,,that's what Amer did to Canada....

    California has a competitive sewing environment, so skilled workers can move to higher paying jobs who value their expertise. The day of non documented workers in sweat shops is long gone (afaik and where I have been). However, you still have prison forced labor doing it in the USA but again, they can't sew commercial quality. Brand's like Robin's jeans make in California USA charge $400-$1000+ for jeans and their workers are skilled and valued and paid well or they leave or open their own places. Did I tell you I pay seam tapers $40 an hour?
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  22. #172
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    ^^ Well said.

    A good friend of mine has been a designer for Patagucci for many years and the lack of understanding of the garment business in this thread (by some) is incredible. How much does it cost to produce a jacket? Well, it depends on what you want to count into that equation or not... but establishing the infrastructure of the entire process (from factory space to marketing) is significant.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    ^^ Well said.

    A good friend of mine has been a designer for Patagucci for many years and the lack of understanding of the garment business in this thread (by some) is incredible. How much does it cost to produce a jacket? Well, it depends on what you want to count into that equation or not... but establishing the infrastructure of the entire process (from factory space to marketing) is significant.
    OK ... So some company is Canada is able to turn a good profit with low sales on a few well known catalog items.
    But now ... we all don't understand ...
    why it is necessary, in fact infeasible, to do it any other way than to outsource to factory workers in Myanmar getting paid $3.50 per DAY?!?!
    Per day.
    There are HUGE profit margins with some of these brands.
    Profits that are clearly reflected in the executive pay and stock prices.
    Possibly even 10 Billion $$$ in sales per quarter, with 16% company Net Profit Margins (after the executive has been REMUNERATED).
    And all hidden under properly 'audited' and 'compliant' third party and subsidiary operations that are only visible and transparent to the parent companies.
    How many subsidiaries do some of these companies have? 10? 20? 30?

    Perhaps your local mom and pop and/or small-medium local producer can say they have significant costs.
    But for big international brands right now,
    slavery.
    100% Guaranteed that they don't want #influencers to ask, inquire further, or share details about the reality of #hashtag production.

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Matchbox 20
    Posts
    2,313
    Quote Originally Posted by L82thegate View Post
    Long time back I went to a sewing fabricator in Seattle to see what his costs would be on a prototype. Papered windows & just an address was the location. Inside, at least a half dozen women of Asian descent sewing Exxxx Bxxxx (name withheld) down jackets and piles of finished ones. Probably paid a very meager wage while the owner profited nicely. Didn't expect that but just validated what I had suspected with some "made in the USA" stuff and those who manufacture them.
    Heard about some Vancouver shops that were closed down after it was also found that they were compliant with highly regarded slavery principles - in order to Made In Canada.
    Rumor.


    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/neglec...list-1.5534142

    They ain't getting a federal relief package either.

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    278
    My reference point was many years ago (1995) as I stated and as for dislike, wrong, I have great friendships with folks of Asian ancestry. I felt bad for the workers who had few choices of employment, little to no english vocabulary and witnessed a real sweat shop type environment which has hopefully changed in more recent times. My point if you missed it, was the fact that made in the U.S.A. has not always been "made ethically in the U.S.A." Clear now?

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