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  1. #176
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    What are the manufacturing costs of common ski apparel?

    I want to buy more from Micol, but how many ski jackets do I need? I’ve also bought a few pairs of the Prospector pants (time to update the bell bottoms on those).

    Please make ski pants*


    *yeah, I already know the answer.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by L82thegate View Post
    I felt bad for the workers who had few choices of employment, little to no english vocabulary and witnessed a real sweat shop type environment which has hopefully changed in more recent times.
    Their kids now work as developers at Microsoft, Google and Amazon, support their parents, and wear Arc'teryx outerwear when they ski . . .

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I want to buy more from Micol, but how many ski jackets do I need? I’ve also bought a few pairs of the Prospector pants (time to update the bell bottoms on those).

    Please make ski pants*


    *yeah, I already know the answer.
    haha thanks, we do appreciate your support and investment in our products. thank you
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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by L82thegate View Post
    My reference point was many years ago (1995) as I stated and as for dislike, wrong, I have great friendships with folks of Asian ancestry. I felt bad for the workers who had few choices of employment, little to no english vocabulary and witnessed a real sweat shop type environment which has hopefully changed in more recent times. My point if you missed it, was the fact that made in the U.S.A. has not always been "made ethically in the U.S.A." Clear now?
    Slavery and child labor were once prevalent and legal in the United States of A. Fortunately they are not today, nor relevant to this threads conversation, which is the here and now. 1995 was a different century. But, still you would have to have seen pay stubs or see small cash transactions and know labor hours to be able to define a "sweat shop type environment". How did you know they had few choices for employment? Or, is this just an assumption?

    Just because a place seems less than ideal in aesthetics, comforts or say it is predominantly Spanish speaking would not constitute the attributes of a "sweat shop". So, what did you see? I see some sweaty places out there like powder coating facilities for bumpers and such that are staffed with big ole sweaty long time Americans but still aren't defined as sweat shops. Made in USA is pretty ethically made in this day and time. I am sure one can find exceptions. Generally those are reported and come to an end fairly quickly. What did you see?
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  5. #180
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    "One person's shit is another person's bread and butter." I learned that working for the sewer department.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  6. #181
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    MiCol's post is worth the read!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micol View Post
    Slavery and child labor were once prevalent and legal in the United States of A. Fortunately they are not today, nor relevant to this threads conversation, which is the here and now. 1995 was a different century. But, still you would have to have seen pay stubs or see small cash transactions and know labor hours to be able to define a "sweat shop type environment". How did you know they had few choices for employment? Or, is this just an assumption?

    Just because a place seems less than ideal in aesthetics, comforts or say it is predominantly Spanish speaking would not constitute the attributes of a "sweat shop". So, what did you see? I see some sweaty places out there like powder coating facilities for bumpers and such that are staffed with big ole sweaty long time Americans but still aren't defined as sweat shops. Made in USA is pretty ethically made in this day and time. I am sure one can find exceptions. Generally those are reported and come to an end fairly quickly. What did you see?
    News documentary: Made in Canada
    https://curio.ca/en/video/made-in-canada-1024/

    Now that was produced in 2004, Vancouver.


    News: Sweatshops exist in Montreal, says local not-for-profit director.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ctor-1.1329861

    A bit more recent.

    Of course, if we wouldn't tolerate it here, why would we tolerate it in another country?
    We would never tolerate today's working conditions and wages for today's sports apparel if it were made in Canada or the USA.

    Wages, hours worked, break time schedules, sick leave, unspoken/undocumented policies that workers cannot risk breaking.
    Like you said, those things can/do exist in sweatshops that look good in photos.
    A clean 'modern' building in India or Mexico or Columbia is just as likely to be a sweatshop.

    But I don't buy your "Slavery and child labor were once prevalent and legal in the United States of A. Fortunately they are not today".

    What about food production, fruit and farm workers, undocumented aliens? Those surely exist in Canada and the USA and usually are not working conditions that we would agree are safe or fair.

    As for clothing, this topic, it is relevant.

    Did a slave make your sneakers? The answer is: probably
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90279693...er-is-probably

  8. #183
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    I watched “The True Cost” yesterday. It would be easy to say, I don’t buy ‘fast fashion’ from H&M, Forever 21, etc., but it’s clear that the industry goes much deeper than that.

    I do wish that the film would have given more examples of companies that are doing it right. 2 minutes with Patagonia doesn’t really educate me.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    News documentary: Made in Canada
    https://curio.ca/en/video/made-in-canada-1024/

    Now that was produced in 2004, Vancouver.


    News: Sweatshops exist in Montreal, says local not-for-profit director.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ctor-1.1329861

    A bit more recent.

    Of course, if we wouldn't tolerate it here, why would we tolerate it in another country?
    We would never tolerate today's working conditions and wages for today's sports apparel if it were made in Canada or the USA.

    Wages, hours worked, break time schedules, sick leave, unspoken/undocumented policies that workers cannot risk breaking.
    Like you said, those things can/do exist in sweatshops that look good in photos.
    A clean 'modern' building in India or Mexico or Columbia is just as likely to be a sweatshop.

    But I don't buy your "Slavery and child labor were once prevalent and legal in the United States of A. Fortunately they are not today".

    What about food production, fruit and farm workers, undocumented aliens? Those surely exist in Canada and the USA and usually are not working conditions that we would agree are safe or fair.

    As for clothing, this topic, it is relevant.

    Did a slave make your sneakers? The answer is: probably
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90279693...er-is-probably
    sorry man, i'm not egocentric enough to think I am godlike, nor deluded with altruistic fantasy enough to think I can stop anything outside my reach and influence. Why are you talking to me about Canada? I've only been to the country once 20 years ago. I specifically responded to LateGate due to his statement about "made in usa sweat shops". I am doing my part, are you?

    I realize the thread title is about "your ski wear" and could address anywhere. But, on these latest posts in which I have responded, I am speaking of the "made in usa sweat shops" comments from Lategate. Nothing else. This is where I have some first hand knowledge and experience. Please do not misconstrue my wording nor apply it broadly to manufacture of all consumer durables, food, etc.

    I will continue to concentrate on things were I do have some limited influence and ability to make a difference. Meat cutting is not ski wear. I'm not in the meat business, and you don't know whether I even eat it or not. As for sneakers..... I know what's in my closet, check yours. Are you living this position you are taking for all to see within the industries you mention? Good on you if the answer is "yes".

    btw: 2004 is ancient history ....

    "Made in USA is pretty ethically made in this day and time. I am sure one can find exceptions. Generally those are reported and come to an end fairly quickly"
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  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I watched “The True Cost” yesterday. It would be easy to say, I don’t buy ‘fast fashion’ from H&M, Forever 21, etc., but it’s clear that the industry goes much deeper than that.

    I do wish that the film would have given more examples of companies that are doing it right. 2 minutes with Patagonia doesn’t really educate me.
    The movie is a good starting point but really needs to be a "franchise" with part , II, III, IV, V etc. However, it is a good precursor to start thought and conversation. Unfortunate, that it has been out a while but taken the covid event to start re-shoring conversations. But, better late than never.
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  11. #186
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    My grandfather got his first job with the Harmony Textile Mill ........when he was 10. His son, my uncle, was the Factory Manager for the Manhattan Shirt Co in Georgia and hired the first black workers.

    The young women working 6 days a week for $3.50/day plus room and board for the Tai Wah Handbag Co. were heroes in their home villages and today their sons are aerospace engineers.

    Carry on
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  12. #187
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    ^cool 1st paragraph. 2nd looks like Hong Kong. I think that is or should be the normal progression of human growth. The previous generation toils and should lift the family so future generations don't have to scrape their way out like the parents. At least this seems as what one should do for their children.
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  13. #188
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    Like I said. One person's toil is another person's great opportunity. My experience was that quality Asian manufacturers were more open to change. US cut and sew wanted to do what they did yesterday.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    US cut and sew wanted to do what they did yesterday.
    only thing is, there are probably less than 1/100th of 1% of American cut and sew operations left in USA .....none of the old ops are still around afaik
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  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    My grandfather got his first job with the Harmony Textile Mill ........when he was 10. His son, my uncle, was the Factory Manager for the Manhattan Shirt Co in Georgia and hired the first black workers.

    The young women working 6 days a week for $3.50/day plus room and board for the Tai Wah Handbag Co. were heroes in their home villages and today their sons are aerospace engineers.

    Carry on
    So, is there any wage that you would deem unacceptable -- given that theirs sons and daughters will become aerospace engineers anyways?

  16. #191
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    It depends.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    My grandfather got his first job with the Harmony Textile Mill ........when he was 10. His son, my uncle, was the Factory Manager for the Manhattan Shirt Co in Georgia and hired the first black workers.

    The young women working 6 days a week for $3.50/day plus room and board for the Tai Wah Handbag Co. were heroes in their home villages and today their sons are aerospace engineers.

    Carry on
    Another thing that concerns me is that, well since they have 3,000 garment workers at just that one small company,
    there might be a glut of aerospace engineers. With the sheer numbers of the worlds garment workers -turned- aerospace engineers, perhaps we might see a quickening of the plans to build colonies on the moon and even mars!

    Perhaps if they can find even cheaper labor,
    they can delay the eventual glut of aerospace engineers,
    whilst helping the women and children develop
    a more beneficial appreciation for good working conditions!

  18. #193
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    I'm done with idiots. Go find another hobby is my advice.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micol View Post
    only thing is, there are probably less than 1/100th of 1% of American cut and sew operations left in USA .....none of the old ops are still around afaik
    I think that reluctance to change is part reason for that. I was selling a camera bag to Kodak for $3.75. Kodak sold it for $24. When the govt stopped placing a quota on that bag the cost went down to $2.50. Kodak still sold it at $24. 2 of the 3 local bag makers went out of business in a year.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Like I said. One person's toil is another person's great opportunity. My experience was that quality Asian manufacturers were more open to change. US cut and sew wanted to do what they did yesterday.
    Of course they were open to change. If someone is able to offer $3.50 per day, today's *improved and deemed fair* wages for garment workers overseas, then of course they are more flexible in whatever the production and deadline requirements are.

    It wasn't that "quality Asian manufacturers were more open to change. US cut and sew wanted to do what they did yesterday." It was that slave labor, then and now, enabled unfair competition with local producers that weren't spineless turncoats against their own highly experienced and knowledgeable staff.

    US cut and sew actually had labor laws to follow and overseas production was feasable since consumers could be left in the dark about the real conditions of production.

  21. #196
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    Well, I guess you have it all figured out. So why are you here?

    Ya know sonny, you can't learn shit if all yer doin is sellin.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Well, I guess you have it all figured out. So why are you here?

    Ya know sonny, you can't learn shit if all yer doin is sellin.
    Oh. I am learning!!!

    Little did I know about the hundreds of thousands of Asian aerospace engineers that are the grand kids of sweatshop employees.

    Not sure I am buying what you are selling.

  23. #198
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    Never said 100000's of aero engineers. So you get an F. Some were probably EE's or CE's or ME's. Keep it real.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    My grandfather got his first job with the Harmony Textile Mill ........when he was 10. His son, my uncle, was the Factory Manager for the Manhattan Shirt Co in Georgia and hired the first black workers.

    The young women working 6 days a week for $3.50/day plus room and board for the Tai Wah Handbag Co. were heroes in their home villages and today their sons are aerospace engineers.

    Carry on
    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Never said 100000's of aero engineers. So you get an F. Some were probably EE's or CE's or ME's. Keep it real.
    Your implication is clear.
    Tai Wah Handbag Co. has 3000 employees, and probably 95% women.
    That's just one company doing what they do.
    By any estimation, there must be millions of aerospace engineers graduating out of 3rd world slave labor.
    As real is as real gets.

    All those black workers that your uncle hired, did they also become aerospace engineers?

  25. #200
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    Aero engineers? Probably not. I suspect more finished the all black 8th grade. A couple might have graduated from a black HS. Fewer got lynched. Some bought a few acres to farm or a BBQ cart.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

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