2020 bikes that make your shorts tight

[simple]

No, in general mini link (dw style) still climbs better than Horst. With current shock designs this is hardly noticeable. Even single pivot can climb well these days with the right shock tune.

[HAB]

Specialized bikes historically not pedaling that well was less an inherent trait of the horst link arrangement, and more just because they put the main pivot really low, resulting in pretty low anti squat. They've moved away from that some in recent years (see: the new Enduro) and plenty of other implementations of horst link designs also have much more anti squat.

[toast2266]

I've cleaned climbs on my enduro that I've never cleaned on any other bike I've ever owned.

But really, there's a ton of stuff that goes into making a bike climb well beyond the basic layout of the pivots. Broadly saying any given suspension design climbs well or doesn't climb well isn't all that useful these days. And even just saying some bike "climbs well" doesn't mean that much. A bike that's super efficient and will cruise up a sustained fire road climb might look a lot different than a bike that does well working its way up rooty, switchbacky messes (example: the aforementioned enduro, which is heavy and slow on fire roads).

[HAB]

I've cleaned climbs on my enduro that I've never cleaned on any other bike I've ever owned.

But really, there's a ton of stuff that goes into making a bike climb well beyond the basic layout of the pivots. Broadly saying any given suspension design climbs well or doesn't climb well isn't all that useful these days. And even just saying some bike "climbs well" doesn't mean that much. A bike that's super efficient and will cruise up a sustained fire road climb might look a lot different than a bike that does well working its way up rooty, switchbacky messes (example: the aforementioned enduro, which is heavy and slow on fire roads).

Right, that's kind of what I was alluding to by saying "pedals" rather than "climbs". By "pedals" I meant a much more narrow view, in terms of putting down power semi-efficiently without bobbing a ton. That's only one facet of the whole package of how something climbs, as you noted.

My bigger point was that it's silly to make too many generalizations about a specific suspension layout because they can vary a ton in implementation, even if they look about the same at a glance.

[ticketchecker]

That being said, anyone familiar with how a Smuggler pedals/climbs?

I know it's a heavy subject but I'm eyeing a used AL frame to try out this new breed of 29r on the cheep/ish.

[toast2266]

HAB: agreed on all points.

That being said, anyone familiar with how a Smuggler pedals/climbs?

I know it's a heavy subject but I'm eyeing a used AL frame to try out this new breed of 29r on the cheep/ish.

I haven't ridden the new one, but I've ridden the old one a bit. I'd say it's not a great climber compared to some of the more "all around / trail" oriented ~120mm bikes. It's more focused on the descents, and gives up a bit on the climbs (it's a bit less efficient, and it's kinda heavy). That said, it's a short travel bike, and climbs pretty well if you're comparing it to many longer travel bikes or any other bike that's more descending oriented. And by being a little more active than other short travel bikes, it does a little better on techy climbs.

More to the point, the Smuggler is a rad bike. You should definitely get one.

[ticketchecker]

^^thanks Toast

Thinking I'll get this frame on the cheap, build it up with decent parts and move everything onto a Ripley or Tallboy frame later when finances are less covidized. If it climbs at least as good as my V2 Bronson I'll be stoked.

[Andeh]

^^thanks Toast

Thinking I'll get this frame on the cheap, build it up with decent parts and move everything onto a Ripley or Tallboy frame later when finances are less covidized. If it climbs at least as good as my V2 Bronson I'll be stoked.

I have an alloy one of the SBG version, and would echo what Toast said. It's a very fun bike, but the rear will be active when standing up unless you flip the climb switch. Rides better than you'd expect based on 120/140. If you can, get the carbon version. The alloy is severely limited in seat tube insertion.

[cydwhit]

^^thanks Toast

Thinking I'll get this frame on the cheap, build it up with decent parts and move everything onto a Ripley or Tallboy frame later when finances are less covidized. If it climbs at least as good as my V2 Bronson I'll be stoked.

Yeah, agreed with everything that's been said. I rode an aluminum one for everything (including way more bike park laps than I should have put on a 120 mm bike) last year, upforked it to 150 and loved it. I definitely was reaching for the climb switch on anything that wasn't technical though, whole lot of suspension movement with it open.

That said, I rode a carbon Sentinel for a week at the end of last summer and was frustrated to find that the weight loss from the aluminum Smuggler made the longer travel bike feel snappier and quicker, geo and travel notwithstanding. So, as a "destination" bike I'd be hesitant to recommend the aluminum Smuggler, but as a party sled to have a blast on while finances figure themselves out, hell yeah!

And with the AL frame you've got the clearance to remove the travel stopper from the rear shock and bump it up a few mm if you so desire.

[ticketchecker]

^^thanks Andeh.

I'm a short dude looking at at MD frame so mega seat tube real estate probably won't matter to me.

I'd probably only flip the switch on longer climbs, just squish it up the punchy stuff. Never had a wagon wheel bike so the whole thing will feel quite different I imagine.

[Andeh]

^^thanks Andeh.

I'm a short dude looking at at MD frame so mega seat tube real estate probably won't matter to me.

I'd probably only flip the switch on longer climbs, just squish it up the punchy stuff. Never had a wagon wheel bike so the whole thing will feel quite different I imagine.

You'll want a OneUp 150 dropper then. I'm also 5'8" on a medium, and my OneUp 150mm only has ~10mm more that I could slam it in the frame before hitting the bend in the seat tube. I tried the 170 but even fully slammed I had to run enough travel limiters that it was only 140mm. By comparison, I've got a 185 BikeYoke in my carbon Sentinel that I could fully slam if I wanted.

[ticketchecker]

I’m 5’6” so might even be able to run a 125.

[volklpowdermaniac]

There was some rumor going around that a new smuggler, or a replacement? Was on the horizon, maybe something a little more towards the trail/XC side of things?

[zion zig zag]

I traded a 2015 Tallboy LT for a Smuggler last spring. I don't feel like I get to the top as fast or as efficiently as I used to, but it's a ton more fun. And honestly, it's not a huge difference on the climb, I still get everywhere I did before.

[HAB]

There was some rumor going around that a new smuggler, or a replacement? Was on the horizon, maybe something a little more towards the trail/XC side of things?

They're definitely going through and updating the line to their new design language, one bike at a time. That's how they've done things for a while. No specific knowledge of what's in store for the Smuggler, though if the Scout and Sentinel are anything to go by, it'll get a little slacker HTA, little steeper STA, a more progressive leverage curve, and two travel options via different stroke shocks. I don't know for sure but I'd bet the Smuggler gets a similar treatment.

[smartyiak]

There was some rumor going around that a new smuggler, or a replacement? Was on the horizon, maybe something a little more towards the trail/XC side of things?

That rumor has been around for about a year. A few folks have said the Smuggler will die and a new marathon “diet Smuggler” will rise with a new name.

I hope they just fix the Smugglers issues: fat pig (for a 120 bike) and climbs not so good. Some people have complained of junkyard bearing issues and limited tire clearance... those changes wouldn’t hurt.

If they could make the Smuggler as efficient going up as It is fun going down, it might be the best bike ever.

But yeah...a year or so. That new Kona is looking tempting...get to it Transition!


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[volklpowdermaniac]

That rumor has been around for about a year. A few folks have said the Smuggler will die and a new marathon “diet Smuggler” will rise with a name.

I hope they just fix the Smugglers issues: fat pig (for a 120 bike) and climbs not so good,. Some people have complained of junkyard beating issues and limited tire clearance... those changes wouldn’t hurt .

If they could make the Smuggler as efficient going up as It is fun going down, it might be the best e ever.

But yeah...a year or so. That new Kona is looking tempting.... get to it Transition!


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Yeah if and when I swap out the hardtail the hei hei will definitely get a look see.

[toast2266]

It seems like the smuggler has been a popular bike for transition. I'd be surprised if they strayed too far from the basic formula of the original.

[smartyiak]

It seems like the smuggler has been a popular bike for transition. I'd be surprised if they strayed too far from the basic formula of the original.

Hope so. They NAILED the geometry with that one...perfect for me (and, let's face it, that's what's really important: perfect...for me )

[smmokan]

The new PYGA carbon trail bike is sexy AF. I'd love to check one out in person:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pyga-r...th-africa.html

[TAFKALVS]

Anyone on the 2020 Tallboy? It interests me.

[Phall]

Buy one. They are really good.


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[smmokan]

Buy one. They are really good.

Meh, I was underwhelmed. It climbs OK, and it descends OK. There are a dozen bikes I'd look at before the Tallboy, especially for the price they charge with their crap builds.

[ticketchecker]

Meh, I was underwhelmed. It climbs OK, and it descends OK. There are a dozen bikes I'd look at before the Tallboy, especially for the price they charge with their crap builds.

Other than a Ripley what’s your top three here?

[smmokan]

Other than a Ripley what’s your top three here?

GG Trail Pistol, Spot Mayhem, Norco Optic (haven't ridden, to be fair)... then I'd like to get on the Pivot 429 Trail, Orbea Occam, Evil Following, and the new YT Izzo. The Tallboy just felt dead to me, and didn't handle nearly as well on Pisgah descents as I hoped.