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Thread: Snow in the PNW 2019-20
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09-20-2020, 01:11 PM #2626
Good luck with that. Declining and unreliable snow fall in the PNW will keep investors from bankrolling expansion and new development even if there weren’t environmental concerns.
I have no problem with ski areas outside or adjacent to Wilderness areas but I would like to see Wilderness stay as is. It’s really the only place to escape the Deplorables. I don’t mean just Trump supporters either.
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09-20-2020, 05:01 PM #2627Registered User
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Lets just turn Paradise Inn into Timberline. Have a handful of lifts that go down below the Inn, and then 2 lifts above it... one to Panorama point (magic mile), and then one to anvil rock that only gets dug out in the spring (palmer). Hikers and tourists would love using the lifts in the summer and fall to get around.
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09-20-2020, 05:21 PM #2628
All National Parks and Monuments should be turned into amusement parks. Lifts, gondolas and ebikes for the fat and lazy masses.
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09-20-2020, 06:15 PM #2629Registered User
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09-20-2020, 06:25 PM #2630
They have long been grandfathered in with years long waiting list. No "these days" involved.
Apparently there will be a first come first served sale of of the extra capacity or non renewing in the next few days.
And that will be system for all of them from 21/22.
I would keep your eye out for an announcement that will lead to another website crash anyday now.
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09-20-2020, 09:25 PM #2631
It’s one thing for Crystal to restrict pass sales (not that they ever had to?) but is it reasonable to have Altera restrict pass sales to certain areas? So Seattle residents can’t buy one but if they can get an ID or NY zip code they can?
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09-20-2020, 10:52 PM #2632Registered User
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I still can't believe only two years ago Crystal had an 11am parking guarantee.
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09-21-2020, 01:30 AM #2633Banned
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So it looks like 410's gonna be closed for quite awhile between Greenwater & Enumclaw. Which has me thinking about putzing through the woods from my humble abode here along I-90 and back to partake in recreational opportunities currently unavailable to Covidiot westsiders. Anyone with a pulse on GW these days know if the tavern is still slinging grub and the general store pumping gas?
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09-21-2020, 06:46 AM #2634
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09-21-2020, 06:53 AM #2635Banned
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09-21-2020, 07:16 AM #2636
04/05 and 14/15
I’ll update with more statistics later, but specifically changes in Dec snowfall for the last 10 years vs previous decades.Last edited by XavierD; 09-21-2020 at 07:43 AM.
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09-21-2020, 07:29 AM #2637
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09-21-2020, 08:21 AM #2638
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09-21-2020, 08:23 AM #2639
Power has been intermittent, its being back fed from Crystal generators.
Phone and internet via temporary line and also intermittent.
Last I heard gas station was down to premium only.
The tavern was open over the weekend.
Worth keeping in mind if you're up there that the GW and Crystal fire departments who would be your first responders for near any event are streched pretty tight right now.
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09-21-2020, 08:24 AM #2640
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09-21-2020, 09:09 AM #2641
Yes, that’s why almost every glacier in WA is so healthy . Unless you get above the elevation of ski areas the ski season is getting shorter. Go hike in the alpine, our glaciers are disappearing.
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09-21-2020, 09:50 AM #2642
You can't blame environmentalist, or even intermittent snow, on the lack of ski area expansion in the PNW. It is primarily the economies of ski resorts and the economies of mountain roads. Where on Earth have ski areas been expanding in the last two decades? As I understand, in Japan, which has more ski areas per capita than anywhere on Earth, ski areas are shutting down, not expanding. Mountain roads are extremely costly compared to the utility general society gets from them. We can barely maintain and operate the mountain roads we have in PNW, let alone think about adding more. The low hanging fruit ski area locations already have ski areas (at all the mountain passes and high roads). We are not putting a ski area in a current Wilderness area, or National Park, ever (and this is not because of evil "environmentalist" but because of federal law, supported and passed by Republicans). But there are still other locations that are on National Forest or other land designation that environmentally speaking, could allow a ski area. It's not the environmentalist or lack of snow that is blocking this, but simple economics.
For instance, when North Cascades National Park was created, they had plans to put a tram on top of Ruby Mountain. Ruby Mountain gets plenty of snow at the top and could host an epic ski area on the North face. It is in a National Recreation area, not Wilderness, National Park, or even National Forest. National Recreation areas allow environmentally destroying uses like massive hydro electric projects. There is no reason, legally, one could not put a tram to the top of Ruby. Today, there are radio communication structures on the summit (so it is not pristine). You could put a tram up the South Side, from Colonial Creek campground, with the skiing primarily on the north side, and have to download back down to the South (because not enough snow all the way down). This area at the bottom of the tram does not get much snow so plowing and keeping the road open would not be difficult. It is flat and could allow for further parking lot creation. It's 2.5 hours from Seattle, so not close, but not far, and on roads that are rarely used in Winter, so no traffic issues. Despite all of this, this project never made it off the drawing board.
Your best bet for ski area expansion in the PNW is from existing ski areas. But these areas are already heavily used by backcountry skiers. By expanding existing ski areas, you will not ease congestion at the ski areas or roads leading to the ski areas. You will just replace one user (backcountry skier) with another (frontcountry user). So the lesson learned, everyone should move to Spokane.
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09-21-2020, 09:58 AM #2643
Regarding Crystal's woes, I'm not an Ikon/Alterra fan boy. But to me, it seems any demise can be attributed to population increase in the Seattle metro area, and not specific issues with management. Not only is Seattle metro growing, but it is growing close to Crystal, i.e. Bonney Lake. There is very little developable land left in King County. More new houses are being built in Pierce County, because that is where the last remaining developable land exists and it is relatively affordable (compared to King and Snohomish). All these people buying brand new homes in Bonney Lake live closer to Crystal than you. For $600, why not buy a Crystal pass?
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09-21-2020, 09:58 AM #2644
How involved in the Crustal MDP were you? Read up on the Sandy Butte. I think you're posting out of ignorance in this regard.
The low hanging fruit ski area locations already have ski areas (at all the mountain passes and high roads).
So the lesson learned, everyone should move to Spokane.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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09-21-2020, 10:00 AM #2645Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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09-21-2020, 10:29 AM #2646
Sandy Butte would have made an awful ski area, particularly on Western US standards. It would be low elevation cut runs in trees relying on snowmaking. Pretty much zero alpine available. And while a US Supreme Court case brought by Methow valley locals did stall this project, as I understand, ultimately, it was economics that prevented this ski area from being built.
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09-21-2020, 10:34 AM #2647Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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09-21-2020, 10:59 AM #2648
You can go look at the crappy terrain that one can ski from Sandy Butte here:
https://goo.gl/maps/sRhqyuciKNVR4bFd6
In 1977, Aspen dropped plans for Early Winters (Sandy Butte), stymied by environmental opposition and governmental delays, and went on to develop Blackcomb Mountain ski area near Whistler Resort in British Columbia.
https://methowvalleynews.com/2016/09...s-of-activism/
Whistler is 4 hours from Seattle, Mazama 4 hours 40 minutes (in Winter). And no mountain passes to cross to Whistler. And you get both Seattle and Vancouver market. So not surprising that development money went to Whistler rather than Mazama. Plus, I think we all agree the terrain and snow of Blackcomb crushes what one would ski from Sandy Butte.
To me, Sandy Butte was just a really poor choice for a ski area, and that eventually made sense to the developers.Last edited by altasnob; 09-21-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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09-21-2020, 11:07 AM #2649
Viability wasn't your argument counselor, it was that environmentalists are not to blame. So nice pivot.
Look, there's a lot of factors as to why ski areas are not being developed in the PNW. Dismissing environmentalists as a significant factor is short sighted is the nicest way I can put it.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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09-21-2020, 11:10 AM #2650
What specific aspect of the MUD at Crystal are you referring to? Regarding National Parks, they don't want people using lifts to access wilderness terrain (Mt. Rainier national park is also a wilderness). The boundary at Crsytal is right along the ridge to Silver King. Crystal skiers pass into the park briefly, by a less than 100 ft, on the traverse out. It was a pissing match between Crystal and the park and eventually the park capitulated and allows the traverse. Personally, I would have no problem if the park held firm and we were all forced to stay on the ridge line out to southback. When I snowboard, that's the path I have to take anyway (and I'm like 15 minutes behind the fastest skiers all the way out to three-way; walking along isn't as slow as you would think). Point being, I don't think the skiing experience would have been dramatically altered. But I'm glad the park gave in because fighting over 100 ft just empowers anti-environmentalist (you have to pick your battles).
What other aspect? A lift up East Peak? Crystal is allowed to make a profit off the public's land. Skiers traverse from High Cambell all the way out past three way in alpine gear. I think the status quo is a good balance between lift assist, and those that like to hike exclusively for their turns.
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