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Thread: NOLA Hard Rock Hotel collapse
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10-15-2019, 09:30 AM #51
There's a parking garage around the corner from me.
It's all pre-tensioned concrete beams (50 foot long sections) supporting a pre-cast/slab-sectioned floor.
The beams all sit, un-secured, on the support structure with 2" of overhang.
In event of seismic event ...
pray.
But this is going to be a mess to figure out. So much of it just fell apart it seems.
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10-15-2019, 09:35 AM #52
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10-15-2019, 09:39 AM #53glocal
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Thanks, teleee. I thought it meant cement mixing units.
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10-15-2019, 09:40 AM #54
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10-15-2019, 09:42 AM #55
i'm w/ telee that it doesn't look like a crane/beam induced failure
but, that said...
not really enough to go on for what actually started it with the vids not starting until the structure was already moving
be interesting to see what forensics determines...
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10-15-2019, 09:56 AM #56
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10-15-2019, 10:25 AM #57
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10-15-2019, 11:46 AM #58Jacket Cobbler
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 11:47 AM #59Jacket Cobbler
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 11:52 AM #60
OSHA is participating in, and maybe even heading up the investigation.
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10-15-2019, 11:54 AM #61Jacket Cobbler
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 12:03 PM #62
nerd forum here -- with some images not offered in the news, incl dtls
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=459166
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10-15-2019, 12:12 PM #63Jacket Cobbler
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ski & ride jackets made in colorado
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 12:21 PM #64Jacket Cobbler
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that p.e. forum yielded this little piece of info....which may have absolutely nothing to do with this situation...but interesting non the less....
Head of building inspections put on suspension last month for corruption investigation....
https://www.nola.com/news/courts/art...3619becbf.htmlwww.freeridesystems.com
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 12:23 PM #65"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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10-15-2019, 12:34 PM #66Jacket Cobbler
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haha
but on serious side....they've got some sets of plan sections and callouts and its getting pretty detailed in there....also the lack of experience in prior like/similar projects by the structural engineering firm (smaller co) and the contractor .....being brought up.....
topical summary review .....in case you dont click it...www.freeridesystems.com
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ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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10-15-2019, 01:03 PM #67
QFT
If you don't have experience in engineering/building, your (puregravity) wild (dumb) speculation only adds confusion to a very sad situation. Be quiet, read the eng-tips link, and come back with an actual question, not a statement that you know nothing about. Actual engineers are giving their opinion rather than dentists.
This building was constructed of concrete over pan deck floor supported on steel beam/columns bearing on a post tensioned transfer slab. Very typical design for a building of this height. What caused the collapse? No one has a clue at this point.
I will agree with telee that I don't think it was anything due to the crane or impact loads from the crane hoisting beams into place. If I was forced to guess, improper temporary shoring and possible overloading due to construction loads (pallets of cmu, etc). We just don't know at this point and probably won't for years.
Everyone should keep in mind that no one involved with this is sleeping right now. The stress the design/construction/ownership teams has got to be through the roof. Knowing your mistake (know or unknown) has killed people is something that must burn into your soul.
/rantLast edited by SorryBro; 10-15-2019 at 01:04 PM. Reason: clarity
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10-15-2019, 01:06 PM #68
Guy that took video says the wind was notable
- he does mention it as something that stood out in his mind.
I think a wind caused crane issue, interacting with the steel framing up top, could very well be a point of investigation.
Twisting of the crane structure, transferred to the building, is a force that is hard to resist because
the building isn't designed to take that any time, esp when under construction.
But I doubt it is wind cause. Unless a load dropped or shoring came loose .... or
1,000 other causes that an armchair dufus could come up with.
Question though:
Does PT (post-tensioned) concrete act like carbon fiber structure (under load) when it breaks?
I mean, is the result of small failure in post-tensioned concrete likely to result in a more catastrophic failure than the same
structure designed with just reinforced concrete?
With the recent bridge collapse in Spain (Italty??), are we seeing a more skeptical view of tensioned concrete structures?
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10-15-2019, 01:09 PM #69
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10-15-2019, 01:15 PM #70
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10-15-2019, 01:30 PM #71
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10-15-2019, 01:47 PM #72
This will be my one and only reply to you. You are wrong. There will be a full investigation (OHSA, as well as city, county and national jurisdictions) into the causes of this tragedy. Many experts will review every piece of evidence and state their opinions. At that time, we can all review the report (the many, many pages of it) and might have a better understanding on what happened. Until then, your "is the result of a small failure in post-tensioned concrete..." comments have no basis. You didn't read the eng-tips thread. The post tensioned transfer slab DID NOT collapse. Sigh.
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10-15-2019, 01:53 PM #73Funky But Chic
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We're gonna need AvE to weigh in and tell us what happened like he did in the Seattle crane collapse incident:
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10-15-2019, 03:09 PM #74Registered User
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Who else read through the engineering forum thread? Interesting stuff that is backed by more than has been laid out here, but still speculative at this point. Though there does seem to be some compelling data to support inadequacies in the design, under the assumption that the permit drawings were not altered before being RFC’d. Which is a big assumption to make.
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10-15-2019, 03:26 PM #75
To my untrained mind, the crane pulling up on that red steel beam and leveraging things it was bolted to seemed plausible. In one of the linked videos though, you can see that beam spinning freely ie. it wasn’t bolted to anything. The reason it butts up to the other beam in every aftermath pic is that’s just where it ended up, resting against the other beam.
Anyhow, this sucks, as bad as three people dying is, I’m glad it wasn’t MUCH worse.
Also, I am not an engineer.There's nothing better than sliding down snow, and flying through the air
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