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  1. #1
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    NOLA Hard Rock Hotel collapse

    Spent 9 months in New Orleans living close to where this happened. Vibes to all suffering due to this. I am wondering if the codes, architects, engineer guys round here can weigh in... I hear the blame is going to contractor...but seems to me the issue is with the design or the inspectors (checking things like slump, or maybe crane installation, etc)



    the accident video: https://youtu.be/SukuIOGTcJs

    Aftermath by Drone: https://youtu.be/ZP4tbb8omHc
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  2. #2
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    Was this a Casino too?

    I was told the Casino in Hollywood Fl. Netted enough in three years, to pay for total acquisition costs of the corporation, by the Seminole tribe.

  3. #3
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    Holy Shit, that is scary as hell.
    Sure there will be tons of blame to go around. How does that even happen today?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    Holy Shit, that is scary as hell.
    Sure there will be tons of blame to go around. How does that even happen today?
    thats what i thought ....how in todays world

    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    Was this a Casino too?

    I was told the Casino in Hollywood Fl. Netted enough in three years, to pay for total acquisition costs of the corporation, by the Seminole tribe.
    i think from looks of it , its all new construction...not remodel....there was a harrahs casino on canal , not sure if this was going to have casino


    also read somewhere this was licensing deal, so tribe does not have owner stake...just hard rock name used...
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    thats what i thought ....how in todays world
    I am not an expert by any means but my company has 3 hotels under construction right now and has opened 2 others in the last few years, all in or near big cities so I have seen the hoops we have to jump through and the oversight. We have been working on one in NO, but again getting all the politics & paperwork in line is arduous.

  6. #6
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    I'm not an engineer, just a builder, but when I first saw the video my thoughts were an overload of staged materials at that corner where the collapse appeared to start. And now I see the drone video shows pallets of CMU along with a lot of other shit up there.

    I'm probably wrong, but that's what catches my eye.

  7. #7
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    Waiting on PureGragity's analysis..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Waiting on PureGragity's analysis..
    Katabatic winds and over-sugared beignets brought it down.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    pallets of CMU along with a lot of other shit up there.
    that caught my eye too....hmmm
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  10. #10
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    Yep, going to be a shitstorm for sure.

    After some quick sleuthing I’ve only been able to find the following:
    contractor: Citadel Builders
    project budget: $85M
    Architect/designer: HBSA II Architects

    There is virtually no way in hell the contractor is coming out of that unscathed unless there was something blatantly wrong with the design. I have limited experience in the commercial game, but IME there are multiple layers to the inspection staff. On a semi-large project like this there may have been an in house QC inspector, 3rd party inspection staff that’s onsite every day, and oversight from the city/state that comes and goes periodically and/or is required for certain hold points. Even if the 3rd party guy was fudging reports good luck proving it unless someone else in the know comes forward, essentially throwing the contractor under the bus in the process. The designer is going to be pointing the finger at the contractor too, and unless every report is accounted for and not pencil whipped, which is highly unlikely, contractor won’t be able to put it back on the design.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    Yep, going to be a shitstorm for sure.

    After some quick sleuthing I’ve only been able to find the following:
    contractor: Citadel Builders
    project budget: $85M
    Architect/designer: HBSA II Architects

    There is virtually no way in hell the contractor is coming out of that unscathed unless there was something blatantly wrong with the design. I have limited experience in the commercial game, but IME there are multiple layers to the inspection staff. On a semi-large project like this there may have been an in house QC inspector, 3rd party inspection staff that’s onsite every day, and oversight from the city/state that comes and goes periodically and/or is required for certain hold points. Even if the 3rd party guy was fudging reports good luck proving it unless someone else in the know comes forward, essentially throwing the contractor under the bus in the process. The designer is going to be pointing the finger at the contractor too, and unless every report is accounted for and not pencil whipped, which is highly unlikely, contractor won’t be able to put it back on the design.
    one of those situations when the VIF (verify in field) thing gets called out a lot. plus this is teh big eZ so would have to go deeper on Citadel ownership to see how local they are (and how much latitude they get)....same for hbsa too
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  12. #12
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    Amazing only 2-3 people dead. RIP. wow.

  13. #13
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    There's already a thread for this

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...e-Crash-thread

















    I'll see myself out.

  14. #14
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    The RCMP is being very very quite about this

  15. #15
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    paging glademaster.....
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    I'm not an engineer, just a builder, but when I first saw the video my thoughts were an overload of staged materials at that corner where the collapse appeared to start. And now I see the drone video shows pallets of CMU along with a lot of other shit up there.

    I'm probably wrong, but that's what catches my eye.
    That would be my initial thought too. Those floors are probably designed for a load between 40 and 100 PSF, a pallet load of CMU is pushing that WAY over design loads. Add the moment forces that is put into that by putting them out on the edge like that and it seems like a disaster in the making.
    No amount of inspections will catch an overload of the structure, unless the SE made a site visit and noticed it. Not likely.
    Again pure speculation based on a couple youtube videos. If I remember I will update after my next AASHTO conference. These things get dissected over and over. As they should!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    There's already a thread for this

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...e-Crash-thread

















    I'll see myself out.
    ummm no, unless this post is in jest...
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  18. #18
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    Squirrels?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    That would be my initial thought too. Those floors are probably designed for a load between 40 and 100 PSF, a pallet load of CMU is pushing that WAY over design loads. Add the moment forces that is put into that by putting them out on the edge like that and it seems like a disaster in the making.
    No amount of inspections will catch an overload of the structure, unless the SE made a site visit and noticed it. Not likely.
    Again pure speculation based on a couple youtube videos. If I remember I will update after my next AASHTO conference. These things get dissected over and over. As they should!
    and shouldnt the stair and elevator towers be complete before the framing even started....(i'm pretty sure yes) unless its PIP and they are building as they go and hoisting or pumping the concrete.....have never seen that with cmu, since they would need to fill the block and that is really real tricky when youve framed up all around it....in fact i would say a big NO to that , so that cmu up there is not good at all ...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Amazing only 2-3 people dead. RIP. wow.
    Really lucky it didn't happen in the middle of a weekday.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    and shouldnt the stair and elevator towers be complete before the framing even started....(i'm pretty sure yes) unless its PIP and they are building as they go and hoisting or pumping the concrete.....have never seen that with cmu, since they would need to fill the block and that is really real tricky when youve framed up all around it....in fact i would say a big NO to that , so that cmu up there is not good at all ...
    Depends on if it is a shear wall design versus a moment frame design. This one is most likely a combination of the 2. The cores of the CMU shafts should have been at least filled and cured prior to the next floor going up. Again I am speculating based off a couple of youtube videos without seeing the actual calcs. If I had those I could most likely tell you exactly what happened.
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    Depends on if it is a shear wall design versus a moment frame design. This one is most likely a combination of the 2. The cores of the CMU shafts should have been at least filled and cured prior to the next floor going up. Again I am speculating based off a couple of youtube videos without seeing the actual calcs. If I had those I could most likely tell you exactly what happened.
    good 411
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  23. #23
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    Oh, and to add, how in the hell did those tower cranes stay up? That is fucking amazing.
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  24. #24
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    Third world shit. Our planes are crashing, and now major construction projects crumbling in our cities. Sad.

    Let's do some livin'
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Third world shit. Our planes are crashing, and now major construction projects crumbling in our cities. Sad.
    Charles Bowden spent a lot of very dangerous journalistic effort investigating and writing about Ciudad Juarez’s descent into murderous chaos.
    One of the reasons he thought US citizens should care was his contention that our society is on a distinct trajectory to resemble Mexico insomuch as we’re fast wedging the middle class away in favor of a model of mega rich oligarchs and a totally powerless class of millions and millions of working poor.

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