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Thread: Ask the experts

  1. #176
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    I almost never wash our bikes unless they're just so slushy and salty or they're packed with goopy, globby clay mud that I can't bring them in the house. For salt and slush use icy cold water at really low pressure to rinse, warmer water will reactivate the salt/brine mix and IT WILL find a way into things you don't want it to. For 30 years my plan has always been to let the mud dry and flake it off by hand then clean with DuMonde Tech/Muc Off/Pro Gold and a soft rag. If you travel with the bikes out in the slush and shit these https://us.muc-off.com/collections/b...c-brake-covers are a life saver and $30 really well spent.

    Re: brake squeal - The only time I ever have a problem is when things are cold and have some moisture on them, once they heat up they're fine. It seems to me that most of the time squeal is because the calipers aren't quite square to the rotor whether it's because they're just poorly adjusted or the mounting tabs aren't milled properly, not contamination. More than a few times I've seen rotor bolts back off ever so slightly and the rotor actually vibrates against the hub, check your bolts first before anything else unless you know for sure your gear is contaminated.

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    978
    Okay experts, what should I do with my fork? 2016 130mm Pike RCT3, never loved it, but after riding a Fox 36 some this fall I really noticed it's limitations. So much less supple and less "planted" in chattery conditions. The Fox would just maintain traction whereas the Pike wants to bounce around more. Running it at 65lbs, fast rebound for me at 155lbs. So I'm looking at the various options, Push coil upgrade, Avalanche springs upgrade, increasing travel to 140mm seems to make sense too. I don't jump more than a foot or two so don't think I need a high level of progressiveness to avoid bottom out. If it seems from the above that I don't really know what I'm talking about, probably right. So what's your expert opinion?

    A more general question: If coils are great because they're linear, why do so many people add spacers to make their forks more progressive?

  3. #178
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Ask the experts

    Thanks GL.

    PD - this isn’t an “expert” response but I believe it to be factually correct:

    People love coil shocks because they have no stiction to get initial stroke and sensitivity to high frequency / fast / square edge chatter. In an air spring fork, adding volume spacers allows you to run a lower air pressure without bottoming out, reducing stiction. But then you have another problem in a fork that may be oversagged or wallowy if you add too many spacers and drop your air pressure too much.

    There is also the Luftkappe/Debonair spring upgrade, which increases the negative air spring relative to the positive air spring, reducing stiction while also allowing you to actually run a higher air pressure, getting back more mid stroke support.

    Your fork “bouncing” could be a sign that the RCT3 damper isn’t well adjusted (LSC and rebound dials - maybe not enough rebound damping, not sure how your LSC is set either) and is also possibly not doing it’s job well, due to age/build/etc. I’ve seen people poo poo RCT3 damper design as being less plush / more apparent (unwanted) HSC than the RC damper, which only has an LSC adjustment dial (no HSC adjustment in this damper design).

    It seems like you have three options.

    1) Quick end of season re-investment / preventative maintenance to try to make your existing gear work. Get a reputable shop to completely service your fork *and* install the Luftkappe or Debonair spring upgrade at the same time. The updated air spring is cheap and new oils/seals in your damper might get things going well again. Might as well go to 140mm at this time, you can get a 140mm Debonair air spring assembly for about $40.

    2) Bottomless pit of time and money customizing your existing gear. This could be a damper conversion (expensive), coil conversion (expensive), custom damper rebuild/re-shim for your specific weight and riding style (expensive). It will also result in you having a very specialized fork that may be hard to find a shop to properly service, and also may be harder to sell.

    3) Buy a Fox 36 RC2 or MRP Ribbon Air or MRP Ribbon Coil, sell the Pike. Life’s too short to be riding on gear your don’t love, and if you don’t enjoy the process of messing/optimizing it then just move on. Changing a fork is a 1 to 2-beer job, getting the steer tube cut, the lower crown race moved over, the brake moved and re-adjusted, the stem and top cap re-mounted. Or a shop can do that easily. Even if you get a new fork, you probably can find a Fox 36 on end of season clearance ($600-700?) and sell yours for at least $300 if it’s in decent shape, more if it’s immaculate. Is your front wheel boost or 100mm?
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  4. #179
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    ^^^ what he said.

    I'd just add, re: #3, new Pikes are a lot better than the old Pikes. Current model nice Pikes are on par with a Fox 36 in terms of suppleness. Pikes might even be a touch better over small bumps, although 36 is definitely more supportive through mid stroke.

  5. #180
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    Is a 2018 leftover Pike with debonair a "current nice one" or not? Am considering one for a replacement for a Revelation 35 that has a motion control damper. Or was there some more recent change too?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    Is a 2018 leftover Pike with debonair a "current nice one" or not? Am considering one for a replacement for a Revelation 35 that has a motion control damper. Or was there some more recent change too?
    Just get a Charger 2 Damper for your revelation and you have a Pike.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    Just get a Charger 2 Damper for your revelation and you have a Pike.
    I can buy the Pike and sell the Revelation for a good bit of savings vs buying the Charger damper for the Revelation. Best I can find on the Charger damper is around $230.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  8. #183
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Ask the experts

    2018 leftover Pike should be a Charger 1 damper, right? The pic of the damper dial will tell you if is Charger 1 (blue ring with lock and unlock icons) or Charger 2 (black recessed dial selector that says open pedal firm).

    But yeah if you have a Debonair Revelation then the only difference between that and a Pike would be the Charger Damper.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    978
    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    Thanks GL.

    PD - this isn’t an “expert” response but I believe it to be factually correct:

    People love coil shocks because they have no stiction to get initial stroke and sensitivity to high frequency / fast / square edge chatter. In an air spring fork, adding volume spacers allows you to run a lower air pressure without bottoming out, reducing stiction. But then you have another problem in a fork that may be oversagged or wallowy if you add too many spacers and drop your air pressure too much.

    There is also the Luftkappe/Debonair spring upgrade, which increases the negative air spring relative to the positive air spring, reducing stiction while also allowing you to actually run a higher air pressure, getting back more mid stroke support.

    Your fork “bouncing” could be a sign that the RCT3 damper isn’t well adjusted (LSC and rebound dials - maybe not enough rebound damping, not sure how your LSC is set either) and is also possibly not doing it’s job well, due to age/build/etc. I’ve seen people poo poo RCT3 damper design as being less plush / more apparent (unwanted) HSC than the RC damper, which only has an LSC adjustment dial (no HSC adjustment in this damper design).

    It seems like you have three options.

    1) Quick end of season re-investment / preventative maintenance to try to make your existing gear work. Get a reputable shop to completely service your fork *and* install the Luftkappe or Debonair spring upgrade at the same time. The updated air spring is cheap and new oils/seals in your damper might get things going well again. Might as well go to 140mm at this time, you can get a 140mm Debonair air spring assembly for about $40.

    2) Bottomless pit of time and money customizing your existing gear. This could be a damper conversion (expensive), coil conversion (expensive), custom damper rebuild/re-shim for your specific weight and riding style (expensive). It will also result in you having a very specialized fork that may be hard to find a shop to properly service, and also may be harder to sell.

    3) Buy a Fox 36 RC2 or MRP Ribbon Air or MRP Ribbon Coil, sell the Pike. Life’s too short to be riding on gear your don’t love, and if you don’t enjoy the process of messing/optimizing it then just move on. Changing a fork is a 1 to 2-beer job, getting the steer tube cut, the lower crown race moved over, the brake moved and re-adjusted, the stem and top cap re-mounted. Or a shop can do that easily. Even if you get a new fork, you probably can find a Fox 36 on end of season clearance ($600-700?) and sell yours for at least $300 if it’s in decent shape, more if it’s immaculate. Is your front wheel boost or 100mm?
    Thanks SM, that was pretty experty by my standards. I'm thinking option 1 makes the most sense, particularly since I have a nice wheelset with a 100mm hubs, and new forks most likely would be 110mm. Is there really little difference between the Luftkappe and the debonair? Should I send it off or take it to my local shop, who are good but probably don't do many projects like this?

  10. #185
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    I can’t personally speak to the wisdom of using hub spacers on a 110mm fork. Depending on your hub model (you’d need to google the service documents and available spare parts specific to that model) it might be as simple as a swap of the end caps. But if it seems unwise or unlikely to find a good deal on a new 100mm fork, those could at least possible options for making a 110mm fork work.

    On local vs sending out, if you don’t have utmost confidence in your local guys I’d say send it out, as you’d get a better chance of it coming back feeling amazing from an expert shop - they’d be more likely to do a more thorough visual inspection of your internals, not overgrease the thing to the point the spring doesn’t properly equalize, use the proper oil volumes to make sure everything feels great, properly replace all seals, etc.

    I haven’t done enough homework to say how the Luftkappe compares to the Debonair in terms of actual riding feel (neither are compatible with my DPA Pikes), but if you want to go 140mm go Debonair as you get an entirely new air spring and it’s less cost than the Luftkappe.

    If you actually like riding at 130mm and don’t want to raise your hands/bottom bracket then the Luftkappe might be a better option, it does make your fork more progressive (I read about two tokens worth of feel) which is probably welcome at that short of travel. The Luftkappe is just a modified part replacement on your existing air spring.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  11. #186
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    The new Debonair air spring is a huge upgrade for an older Pike. That’s probably the biggest change the fork has seen over the years. At under $50, it’s a cheap upgrade.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Thanks SM, that was pretty experty by my standards. I'm thinking option 1 makes the most sense, particularly since I have a nice wheelset with a 100mm hubs, and new forks most likely would be 110mm. Is there really little difference between the Luftkappe and the debonair? Should I send it off or take it to my local shop, who are good but probably don't do many projects like this?
    From what I've read, I'd probably do the Debonair over the Luftkappe, both for cost and I think it suits our style of riding fine.

    Any of your local shops have a shockwiz you can borrow for a few rides next spring? I found it pretty helpful.

  13. #188
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    @PD, I'm also not a fork expert, but I tend to agree with your reasoning re: bottom out for a less aggressive rider. Assuming you're not using all the travel currently/not bottoming out, have you tried running a little more sag just to see what that's like? Not that you'll want to stay with that, but it might give you another useful data point. If, for example, you found that you like the feel better but not the steeper HTA, then the 140 (150?) debonair upgrade might be indicated.

    I find the RS service to be a reasonable DIY job with appropriate YouTube assistance. While it seems like any competent shop should be able to manage those kinds of jobs, I also trust myself plus YouTube more than a mediocre mechanic who doesn't do his homework. Anytime I'm not doing suspension work myself I send it away.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    2018 leftover Pike should be a Charger 1 damper, right? The pic of the damper dial will tell you if is Charger 1 (blue ring with lock and unlock icons) or Charger 2 (black recessed dial selector that says open pedal firm).

    But yeah if you have a Debonair Revelation then the only difference between that and a Pike would be the Charger Damper.
    I'm seeing blue ring with open - pedal - firm.

    Hmm. Probably should just grab it. About $350 shipped.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I'm seeing blue ring with open - pedal - firm.

    Hmm. Probably should just grab it. About $350 shipped.
    That’s a Charger 2 RCT3.

    Sorry, “black recessed” wasn’t the right way to describe the new inner dial shape and the new ones also have a blue ring but no lock /unlock icons.

    This is from internet photos
    Charger 2 RC - large dial controls HSC, small LSC


    Charger 2 RCT3 - large 3 position dial for HSC, inner dial for LSC


    These are off my bikes:

    Charger 1 RC - dial controls LSC


    Charger 1 RCT3 - large dial is 3 position HSC, small dial is 12(? Can’t remember for sure) click HSC

    L
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  16. #191
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    Thanks schralph -- I went ahead and bought one. I'll post a PSA thread too, since these seem like solid deals on RockShox.
    https://www.theproscloset.com/collec...rice-ascending

    I got the 140mm 27.5 Pike RCT3. The bike it's going on is a Kona Explosif hardtail, which came with a 120mm Revelation, and feels like it could use a tad more travel (and be a touch slacker HTA), so why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  17. #192
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    PUSH AC3 Coil will give you the biggest, most objectively awesome feeling upgrade.
    Install yourself. Easier than setting up tubeless.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  18. #193
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    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
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    The latch on my ancient toolbox just broke. Anybody got a recommendation for a replacement? Does it even matter?
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  19. #194
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    Its not like chosing wife where you find someone you hate and give her your house

    get one you like !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #195
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    Go to big box home improvement store. Buy one that fits your personal level of OCD.

  21. #196
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    What toast said... I really dig a bigger rigid box I got from Home Depot. Lots of room the just throw stuff in it or you can organize it as you see fit l.

  22. #197
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    Harbor Freight shop tool boxes are pretty nice - ball bearing drawer slides, lot of sizes. I have a stack of old Craftsman tool boxes, but if I didn't, I'd go pick up some at HF.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  23. #198
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    Is it one that goes with you or stays home? There are some decent rolling workstations that would work if you do the foam cutout thing for the drawers so everything doesn't get tossed around when you put it in and take it out of the car. Milwaukee makes a nice folding hand truck and box system. https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...xes/48-22-8426

  24. #199
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Real questions for toolbox / shop setup experts:
    What tools should go on pegboard hangers vs inside toolbox/cabinet drawers?

    • Strictly for garage use - toolbox will not be mobile (I just grab what I need for road trips and throw them into a small toolbag)
    • Benchtop cabinet drawer, fixed floor cabinet drawer, or wheeled cabinet drawer? I'm leaning towards wheeled as I already have a wheeled 36" Rigid cabinet w/ single drawer that fits beneath my bench, so a matching unit with several shallow drawers and 1 deep drawer would be a good complement)


    First time homeowner over here, finally have a garage / shop big enough to start setting up a good system.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  25. #200
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    535
    Not claiming to be an expert, but I'd say for bike tools, maybe only like 25% go on the pegboard. I really need to get some sort of nice metal drawer cabinet for tools. I have a couple of plastic drawer cabinets that work well for spare parts but aren't great for a lot of tools. I've got far too much just laying on the top of my work bench because they don't hang on the pegboard but don't fit in the part drawers.

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