Ask the experts

[XXX-er]

The 25$ a roll 3M product which will do a bike , I cut patterns out of paper to make the curve, I thot it turned out pretty good, I sold the bike to an MD for a pretty good price

{ATTACH=CONFIG]459934[/ATTACH]

[teledad]

Apparently, the only thing left is the cable/housing. It's also the cheapest/easiest to replace. Would also possibly explain the instantaneous-ness of the problem.
Although you don't see cables completely go to shit very much any more.

Swapped the cable, no change. Finally put a new derailleur on and had it shifting perfectly within 5 minutes (tighten cable, set B screw, set limit screws, turn the barrel adjuster a few times, done).

I’ll take a look at the old derailleur and see if I can get it warrantied (the bike is less than a year old). But if I have to replace the derailleur every 300 miles I’m going back to SRAM.

[Fred Pabst]

Just take the shock off and cycle the linkage to see if the bearings are smooth, quiet and without play. If so, you are good to go. Bearing life has a lot to do with conditions, but also the frame/bearings specced. I had to replace bearings on a Santa Cruz after a season or two, while bearings in a Devinci frame were still fine after four seasons.

Thanks. Took the shock off to cycle the linkage like you said. Everything seemed smooth and quiet.

Speaking of replacing pivot bearings, this video came up in a search that I thought was cute..but informative.

[hick]

^^that is awesome!


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[BigHerm]

On the subject of chain lube, is anyone else here as enamored with SCC Tech/ Wolf Tooth lube as I am? I’m continually amazed how long that stuff lasts in rough conditions, wet or dry.

I'm a fan so far. Using it on my mtb and commuter/gravel. I was satisfied with RocknRoll Extreme (blue) but this stuff is better.

[NT]

Swapped the cable, no change. Finally put a new derailleur on and had it shifting perfectly within 5 minutes (tighten cable, set B screw, set limit screws, turn the barrel adjuster a few times, done).

I’ll take a look at the old derailleur and see if I can get it warrantied (the bike is less than a year old). But if I have to replace the derailleur every 300 miles I’m going back to SRAM.

I've had the exact same experience several times. I'm now on my 4th shimano derailleur in 2 years. Each one I believe took a minor hit and got thrown out of whack. Can't tell from looking at it other than a few minor scratches. Has me considering giving the new sram transmission stuff a try someday.

My last bike I had for 7 years and never had to replace the derailleur. It was a sram medium cage for a 2x10 setup- I think it not having to extend down so far helped. Both bikes 29ers.

I'm a fan so far. Using it on my mtb and commuter/gravel. I was satisfied with RocknRoll Extreme (blue) but this stuff is better.

I just switched to the SCC tech stuff from squirt- holy shit I'm blown away so far. Can't believe I was dealing with all that gunky wax getting on everything for so long. Never had a drivetrain stay so clean before.

[BigHerm]

Replaced my drivetrain about 300 miles ago with shram x01. On a typical ride, the first few miles after lubing chain (blue rocknroll) sounds fine, but at around mile 5 starts to sound like marbles in a tumbler. Pretty sure I have b-gap adjusted correctly. Shifting seems fine. What am I missing?

Using B-gap tool? White one so much easier than red, must set at sag (way easier with air shock). Not sure if related to your auditory issue. Also, wiping RocknRoll off after applying, right?

[oldblue]

SRAM bottom bracket question:

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the DUB BSA 73 MTB (00.6418.015.000) and the DUB BSA 73 MTB Wide (00.6418.015.005) other than the included spacers?

[J. Barron DeJong]

On the subject of chain lube, is anyone else here as enamored with SCC Tech/ Wolf Tooth lube as I am? I’m continually amazed how long that stuff lasts in rough conditions, wet or dry.

Clean no contamination:






Dry off-road contamination:




Wet/mud:

[climberevan]

What's that, data? Get out of here with your science and shit!

[muted reborn]

Thanks. Took the shock off to cycle the linkage like you said. Everything seemed smooth and quiet.

Speaking of replacing pivot bearings, this video came up in a search that I thought was cute..but informative.

Wow bagtagley have you seen this yet?

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

That that shit over to the Queso thread!!! (no seriously that is some top level nerd shit and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter........I've been happy with UFO Drip for a few seasons now.)

[toast2266]

While I'm sure their testing methods are decent and I don't doubt that the data they collected is accurate, I also don't think it's perfectly applicable to the riding I do. All of the chain lube tests I've seen come from roadies. It's some variation of testing lubrication while spinning at an even cadence, maybe with some water or sand or mud thrown in the mix.

A huge part of my chain going dry is just from it flopping around. The dryest and squeekiest my chain ever gets is after a day of riding lifts and downhilling, which at the risk of stating the obvious, involves very little pedaling. But the chain is getting whipped all over the place and most lubes don't stay put. It's the same deal (to a lesser extent) on pedaly rides - I'm generally pedaling to the top of the roughest descent I can find. The descent takes a larger toll on my lube than the pedaling does.

I don't know what that means in terms of what the best lube is. I do know that some of the lubes that rank higher on that list will last like 3 laps on a DH bike before the chain sounds like a rusty fork on a chalkboard.

[Eluder]

Is there anything in that chart that scores well that you can just put on a go ride?

[Andeh]

I've found that Squirt generally does pretty well for my MTB riding in California. It isn't wet & oily, so it doesn't attract dust like any of the shitty Muc Off products. It does build up to a small extent on teeth & jockey wheels, but less than other wax lubes (like Rock n Roll). If I clean off the factory grease and then follow the instructions for application, it lasts a fair amount of time (3-8 dry rides) before starting to make noise. It's biggest weakness is wet, rainy rides where the chain gets covered in wet sand & dirt, and then the bike gets hosed off after. That will kill it in 1 ride, which means letting the chain dry out and a heavy reapplication after. For wet, shitty riding in abrasive soils, it seems like heavy, oil based lubes like WD40 bike lube stay on the chain longer, but they also tend to attract grit along with that (which in turn wears the chain & cassette/chainring).

In the ZF testing, he shows that compared to the queso stuff, Squirt starts out with high chain wear but then essentially doesn't change. He chalks that up to it taking a while to penetrate the rollers, but once its in there, it does an ok job.

[XXX-er]

I've found that Squirt generally does pretty well for my MTB riding in California. It isn't wet & oily, so it doesn't attract dust like any of the shitty Muc Off products. It does build up to a small extent on teeth & jockey wheels, but less than other wax lubes (like Rock n Roll). If I clean off the factory grease and then follow the instructions for application, it lasts a fair amount of time (3-8 dry rides) before starting to make noise. It's biggest weakness is wet, rainy rides where the chain gets covered in wet sand & dirt, and then the bike gets hosed off after. That will kill it in 1 ride, which means letting the chain dry out and a heavy reapplication after. For wet, shitty riding in abrasive soils, it seems like heavy, oil based lubes like WD40 bike lube stay on the chain longer, but they also tend to attract grit along with that (which in turn wears the chain & cassette/chainring).

In the ZF testing, he shows that compared to the queso stuff, Squirt starts out with high chain wear but then essentially doesn't change. He chalks that up to it taking a while to penetrate the rollers, but once its in there, it does an ok job.

pretty much this , I think its^^ a pretty good product and I don't really want to spend a whole bunch of time lubing a chain

[J. Barron DeJong]

For anyone interested, this video goes over the ZF test protocol in detail:




If you just want to see what he’s doing for contamination testing, that starts at 20:30.

[J. Barron DeJong]

While I'm sure their testing methods are decent and I don't doubt that the data they collected is accurate, I also don't think it's perfectly applicable to the riding I do. All of the chain lube tests I've seen come from roadies. It's some variation of testing lubrication while spinning at an even cadence, maybe with some water or sand or mud thrown in the mix.

A huge part of my chain going dry is just from it flopping around. The dryest and squeekiest my chain ever gets is after a day of riding lifts and downhilling, which at the risk of stating the obvious, involves very little pedaling. But the chain is getting whipped all over the place and most lubes don't stay put. It's the same deal (to a lesser extent) on pedaly rides - I'm generally pedaling to the top of the roughest descent I can find. The descent takes a larger toll on my lube than the pedaling does.

I don't know what that means in terms of what the best lube is. I do know that some of the lubes that rank higher on that list will last like 3 laps on a DH bike before the chain sounds like a rusty fork on a chalkboard.

No idea what would explain what you’re experiencing riding DH. Only think I an think of is that it’s extra dusty?

FWIW, Zero Friction guy races MTB, and maybe cyclocross too.

Edit: just an additional thought - does it even matter that a lube isn’t great for DH? Like you said, you’re not pedaling much anyway, so probably not wearing the chain a ton.

[east or bust]

No love for Dumonde Tech ey?


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[MegaStoke]

No love for Dumonde Tech ey?


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That used to be my go-to until the SCC Tech rep gave me a sample bottle. I almost didn’t even try it, because reps are always full of shit, but have been beyond stoked on the stuff since then.

[toast2266]

No idea what would explain what you’re experiencing riding DH. Only think I an think of is that it’s extra dusty?

FWIW, Zero Friction guy races MTB, and maybe cyclocross too.

Edit: just an additional thought - does it even matter that a lube isn’t great for DH? Like you said, you’re not pedaling much anyway, so probably not wearing the chain a ton.

It's not the dust, it's that the chain is getting banged around and slapped against the chainstay repeatedly. The lube is being physically removed from the chain.

And that exact same thing is happening every time I go downhill, regardless of whether I took a lift to the top or if I pedaled to the top. So for the 95% of the riding that I do that involves pedaling to the top, it matters. Obviously if I'm pedaling, I'm getting less vert and doing less descending over the course of a ride, but the descending still takes its toll. My lube lasts way longer if I'm pedaling around on relatively smooth trails than if I'm hammering down something rough.

My point being, roady science isn't perfectly applicable.

[J. Barron DeJong]

It's not the dust, it's that the chain is getting banged around and slapped against the chainstay repeatedly. The lube is being physically removed from the chain.

And that exact same thing is happening every time I go downhill, regardless of whether I took a lift to the top or if I pedaled to the top. So for the 95% of the riding that I do that involves pedaling to the top, it matters. Obviously if I'm pedaling, I'm getting less vert and doing less descending over the course of a ride, but the descending still takes its toll. My lube lasts way longer if I'm pedaling around on relatively smooth trails than if I'm hammering down something rough.

My point being, roady science isn't perfectly applicable.

I hear what you’re saying, and I’m not suggesting it’s not happening, but I’m still not sure I buy that the chain flopping around is what’s causing it (but I don’t have a better explanation…)

[toast2266]

I hear what you’re saying, and I’m not suggesting it’s not happening, but I’m still not sure I buy that the chain flopping around is what’s causing it (but I don’t have a better explanation…)

I mean, take a freshly lubed chain and slap it on your workbench. There is now lube on your workbench that is no longer on the chain. Do that a few thousand times to replicate riding down a rough trail. There's a bunch of lube on your bench, and a bunch less lube on the chain.

Some lubes seem to hold up better to that kind of thing, but I haven't conducted any kind of coherent experiments to know which ones are best.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Working on a friends bike. Its an older Rocky Mountain. 2x10 etc etc.

Ok so the B-screw is totally bent over. I assume if I try to straighten it it will break and then I am going to have to drill out/extract.

Newer (3 or 4 years maybe) OneUp dropper, "Will only stay up if I make the seat collar really tight".......Ooops, so he strangled it. Had 26psi in it lol lol lol. I aired it up and it works, but now gets stuck on the way up and needs an extra pull to get it fully extended. I assume he fucked up the internals when strangling it with the seat post collar?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Is there anything in that chart that scores well that you can just put on a go ride?

Tru-Tension Tungsten All-Weather is probably what you’re looking for.

That, Ceramic Speed UFO drip, and Silca Super Secret Drip, are the closest to hot melt in terms of properties and performance. A big one of which is cleanablility: the chain can be cleaned by just swishing it around in hot water - three changes, swirling about 30 seconds and the chain is clean




And you should only need to clean the chain after wet/muddy riding. For dry road riding no cleaning at all, though you could wipe some surface dust off with a cloth. For dry off-road, you can wipe the chain off with a cloth sprayed with some alcohol. Then just drip on the lube and spin the cranks to work it in a bit. (Can also do submersive with those lubes, but if you’re going to do that, just do hot melt. Easier at that point, and better performing).

If your riding is going to require regularly cleaning the chain though, I’d suggest that hot melt is the way to go. It’s way less effort than most people think.