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Thread: Ask the experts
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01-12-2022, 12:22 PM #6751Registered User
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3mm dish offset is closer to 3/4 - full turn of each spoke
my sx trail has an offset rear end and i swap with my dj occasionally as its easier to swap wheels and re-dish than it is to swap tires when i take the dj on looser dirt slope or flow trails
ive also ridden the sx trail with normal dishing and its not noticeable outside of some rubbing on chainstay under hard cornering
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01-12-2022, 12:23 PM #6752
I've never even heard the term 'dishing' before. Thanks for the knowledge...again.
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...hing-centering
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01-12-2022, 12:30 PM #6753
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01-12-2022, 12:33 PM #6754
A sketch to help you visualize:
Left is a normal symmetrical build. Right shows how the hub itself is offset to the right of the frame centerline, and the spoke holes are offset to the left of the rim. Both those changes work to make the spoke angle more symmetrical between sides. (Hub is green, spokes purple, rim red. On the right image the greyed lines are the original geometry as shown in the left.)
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01-12-2022, 12:40 PM #6755
You're definitely overthinking this.
It will make zero perceptible difference in how the bike rides. It will probably cause a 2.5" tire to rub on the chainstay in hard corners. Re-dishing is a quick and easy job and anyone with a very basic understanding of how to true a wheel should be able to bang it out in 15 minutes.
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01-12-2022, 01:21 PM #6756Registered User
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nobody ever over thinks things on TGR
An improperly dished wheel will let the tire hit the frame, dish allows the ever growing rear cluster to fit in the frameLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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01-12-2022, 01:33 PM #6757"Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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01-12-2022, 01:37 PM #6758
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01-12-2022, 02:18 PM #6759
I tried the 1/4 turn dishing method. Seems to have worked? At least looking at the bike from the rear the center of the tire tread seems to line up with the frame centerline. Good enough for me.
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01-12-2022, 02:25 PM #6760
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01-12-2022, 02:35 PM #6761
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01-12-2022, 03:07 PM #6762Registered User
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Sounds to me like the CC hardware is too tight. How difficult is it to push the hardware shaft through the eyelet bushing? I give my EXT hardware many ugga-duggas and it rotates fine. My suggestion would be getting some Fox hardware and replacing the CC stuff. I know Fox makes 3 different sizes of the brown DU inserts, so you can swap those for tolerance on the shaft.
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01-12-2022, 03:21 PM #6763
The sleeve (I assume that's what you mean by the shaft, the metal tube that goes through the bushing mounted inside the eyelet of the shock) does not move through the bushing at all. Can't rotate it by hand, can't slide it through by hand, has to be installed with a press. I agree that it seems too tight compared to the Fox stuff. The sleeve drops into the frame/linkage nice and tight at first and rotates freely. Once I torque the bolt down enough the sleeve gets pinched on each side against the frame/linkage and it stops rotating. That's when the resistance goes way up, I assume from the bushing being mega tight against the sleeve. Maybe it will loosen in time but the frame/shock aren't new so if it's getting better it's doing it very slowly.
Form what I understand CC has their own proprietary hardware since their eyelets are bigger than Fox so I think I'm stuck using their stuff.
Edit: nwm, they used to run 14.7 mm eyelets to be a pain in the ass but apparently the Kitsuma is 15 mm and should fit the standard FOX stuff. Might give it a shot and see if it helps"Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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01-12-2022, 03:35 PM #6764
DVO hardware also works, is usually cheaper than Fox hardware, and unlike Fox hardware doesn't require removing the eyelet bushing: https://dvosuspension.com/product/re...ting-hardware/
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01-12-2022, 04:22 PM #6765
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01-12-2022, 04:45 PM #6766Drink to remember not to forget!
Fourisight Wines
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01-12-2022, 05:25 PM #6767
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01-12-2022, 06:06 PM #6768
Since we've deteriorated to self-quoting, here goes. Because I LOVE that you lads felt compelled to pwn me on the analogy that I deleted a few minutes after typing because I realized it was dumb. The intent was to focus on how, something that works beautifully when everything is symmetrical and well balanced, will likely lose much of what makes it great once you throw off that balance. But I digress.
I would like to touch back on how "easy" the simple changes are. Again, if you haven't built a wheel, you probably aren't thinking about spoke windup. So you probably didn't notice that your 1/4 turn on some spokes did a lot more than it did on others. And when the occasional 1/4 turn resulted in a dramatic popping sound, it was an indication that things were getting a little whackadoodle. Eventually that leads to broken spokes on the trail because you've got weirdly tensioned shit. And yea, when the spokes on top of the circle take a huge load (like the one I left in your mom), the spokes on the bottom of the circle unload. And when you have a bunch of WIND UP, they start twirling around and next thing you know you're out of true. Or with a carbon rim you're still true but you have horribly unbalanced spoke tension. Again leading to broken spokes on the trail.
But hey, I'm not an engineer. But I do know one who's a smokin hot WC DH racer. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/frida-...-for-2022.html which has to count for something.However many are in a shit ton.
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01-12-2022, 06:34 PM #6769
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01-12-2022, 07:35 PM #6770
If you wound up some spokes in the dishing process, the wheel will go out of true on the first ride. True it (by tightening the non-drive side only) and you'll be right back to where you should've been if the spokes hadn't wound up.
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01-12-2022, 07:37 PM #6771
With how stiff and strong carbon rims are these days, it hardly matters.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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01-12-2022, 08:03 PM #6772
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01-12-2022, 08:33 PM #6773
All valid points
However many are in a shit ton.
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01-12-2022, 08:54 PM #6774Registered User
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- northern BC
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deal with spoke wind up by over tightening and backing off,
so if you are trying to do 1/4 go 1/2 turn and back off 1/4 turn for a net 1/4 turnLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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01-12-2022, 09:39 PM #6775
I’m just catching up so perhaps this had been mentioned, but once you have the wheel done, put the rubber on it and pump it up. Then bounce it hard on the ground a bunch of times. Then grab the spokes and pull them together with your hands - squeeze them a bunch. Then bounce the wheel again.
That actually does a good job of balancing tension a little. You might hear spokes pop. Now stick it back on the trueing stand. Retrue, making sure to always avoid windup by tensioning each spoke a little past then backing of 1/8-1/4 turn.
Once true you should be good. Though some people repeat the process.
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