Ask the experts

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 10-31-2022, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

SPEEDHOLES!!

!!!

**singlesline** · 11-01-2022, 01:01 PM

Back to the topic of 1up racks coming loose and wobbling on bumpy roads.

Originally Posted by singlesline

sounds like another potential customer for my new product idea…

Little cap that clicks over the square piece and has a security Allen key inside to stop the bolt from loosening.

Originally Posted by Dromond

Does anyone know if the bolt is actually what loosens and causes the problem? I guess you could mark/record the bolt position on install to confirm.

I finally have an answer to this question: Yes, it appears that the bolt on the 1up rack actually loosens (rather than just the ball/receiver interface developing play on bumpy roads)

Took me a long time to observe, but I finally tightened the bolt to a known location, drove on a road that shook the rack loose, and then verified that the bolt itself had loosened.

Hardly scientific, and it is possible it is a combination of factors--ball could develop play and then since the system isn't tight anymore, the bolt is free to move--but that's confirmation enough that I think my anti-rotation cap idea might be worth trying

**simple** · 11-01-2022, 01:09 PM

I switch my 1up around the cars and trucks. I found that it comes loose on some but not all. I found that it comes down to the hitch not necessarily the rack. Not all hitches have the same shape or material. It just needs to be 2*2 basically. I just tighten it once in a while.

**John_B** · 11-01-2022, 01:19 PM

I'm sure others have addresses this, or I did earlier but I took a 4 foot NRS strap and wrapped it through the hokes in my hitch for tow chains and then around the body of my rack. It's a pretty bomber back up to the bolt loosening. Which has never happened to me.

**singlesline** · 11-01-2022, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by John_B

I'm sure others have addresses this, or I did earlier but I took a 4 foot NRS strap and wrapped it through the hokes in my hitch for tow chains and then around the body of my rack. It's a pretty bomber back up to the bolt loosening. Which has never happened to me.

Yeah, the newer/HD models come with a standard locking hitch pin, so I'm not at all worried about the rack falling off...I just don't like how much it starts bouncing around when the bolt backs off.

Admittedly, that's something some of the other rack manufacturers with their larger engineering teams and willingness to use molded plastic are ahead of 1up. Instead of a security hex head, that bolt could be some kind of a knob with a lock core in it like thule and yakima use on some models.

**evdog** · 11-01-2022, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by singlesline

I finally have an answer to this question: Yes, it appears that the bolt on the 1up rack actually loosens (rather than just the ball/receiver interface developing play on bumpy roads)

Can confirm as well. My friend's 1up loosened and the rack almost slid out of the hitch receiver on a long forest road climb one year. Had to stop every so often to get out and re-tighten it. Could have been bad to have it loosen and then have the rack slide out on the freeway. That was a big reason I never bought a 1up rack. Did get the single earlier this year once I found out they added a slot to put the pin through. Unfortunately it's the super thin pin that doubles as a wheel lock. And the slot they added isn't wide enough to put a standard size hitch pin through. That is a total head scratcher.

**climberevan** · 11-02-2022, 09:01 AM

Our 1Up has never loosened on its own. It's an old HD 2 bike model, and on a regular hitch, and we've prob used it for 20k miles or more. They included a velcro strap to back it up to the chain loops on the hitch but I rarely use it now bc I trust the locking ball thing in the rack. I should prob start putting the strap on there....

**Johnny Utah** · 11-02-2022, 09:19 AM

Anyone able to speak to differences on this loosening situation for 2” vs 1.25” receivers? Heavy/super vs quick rack?

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**BigHerm** · 11-02-2022, 10:42 AM

I use a 1.25" with the little 2" adapter on a Curt(?) hitch on a VW Golf Alltrack, formerly on a 1.25" hitch on a GTI. 6 or 7 year-old single that I sometimes put an extension on, no hitch pin. I don't get super offroady with my 7" clearance but I drive on washboard dirt and various car friendly dirt roads along with rough-ass I40. Most I can ever tighten it is like 1/8 turn.

**jm2e** · 11-02-2022, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah

Anyone able to speak to differences on this loosening situation for 2” vs 1.25” receivers? Heavy/super vs quick rack?

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No problems with 2” rack into 2” hitch.
No problems with 1.25” rack into 1.25” hitch.
1.25” rack into 2” hitch with adapter is always going to be harder to get solid.

Ever since I bought a $5 socket/nut driver (think screw driver for screwing in nuts & bolts) my 1up racks are solid.
1) Insert 1up 3/8” security hex wrench.
2) Slip nut driver on end of 1up wrench. Oh look, now it’s longer and has a nice handle.
3) Tighten that shit like a boss.

The 2-3 times a year I remove racks, they’re still on nice and snug. No loosey. No goosey. Doing about 40k miles of interstate, windy Mtn roads, and FS for shuttle laps with DH bikes and Ebikes yearly.
Honestly, the silly little Velcro strap is more than adequate as “backup”.

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**simple** · 11-02-2022, 11:54 AM

Yeah I have the skinny one with the adapter built in is what I have. Definitely not set it and forget it but more adaptable to small cars

**Roxtar** · 11-03-2022, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I had zero problem with the Juicy & never had to bleed them

So you were the one.
I'd heard stories about you but just assumed it was urban legend.

**XXX-er** · 11-03-2022, 03:55 PM

yes an anecdote of 1 so a trouble free Juicy is not a unicorn

**bagtagley** · 11-04-2022, 06:26 AM

Other than the warble, I never had any issues with Juicies.

**natebob** · 11-04-2022, 06:47 AM

Cane Creek 40 IS question. I got a new bike that came with this headset, which has an expander plug style preload assembly. I accidentally loosened the 5mm bolt and dropped the assembly into the steerer tube. After getting it out of the steerer, realized I didn't pay attention to how the assembly was installed in the steerer, ie, how far into the steerer it should go. Should I put the assembly together, threading the top cap onto the expander plug and just stick it into the steerer until the top cap is sitting on the steerer? How much to thread the top cap onto the steerer before insertion? Cane Creeks documentation doesn't cover the expander style assembly, couldn't find anything with google.

**Andeh** · 11-04-2022, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by natebob

Cane Creek 40 IS question. I got a new bike that came with this headset, which has an expander plug style preload assembly. I accidentally loosened the 5mm bolt and dropped the assembly into the steerer tube. After getting it out of the steerer, realized I didn't pay attention to how the assembly was installed in the steerer, ie, how far into the steerer it should go. Should I put the assembly together, threading the top cap onto the expander plug and just stick it into the steerer until the top cap is sitting on the steerer? How much to thread the top cap onto the steerer before insertion? Cane Creeks documentation doesn't cover the expander style assembly, couldn't find anything with google.

If you're talking about the star nut, that is set by a tool down the steerer a certain distance, usually ~1" or so. You want the top cap to have 3-5mm of clearance over the top of the steerer tube before preload, to allow for compression. If it's flush, then you'll not generate any preload.

**natebob** · 11-04-2022, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Andeh

If you're talking about the star nut, that is set by a tool down the steerer a certain distance, usually ~1" or so. You want the top cap to have 3-5mm of clearance over the top of the steerer tube before preload, to allow for compression. If it's flush, then you'll not generate any preload.

It's not a typical star nut, but an expander wedge.

**Dee Hubbs** · 11-04-2022, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by natebob

Cane Creek 40 IS question. I got a new bike that came with this headset, which has an expander plug style preload assembly. I accidentally loosened the 5mm bolt and dropped the assembly into the steerer tube. After getting it out of the steerer, realized I didn't pay attention to how the assembly was installed in the steerer, ie, how far into the steerer it should go. Should I put the assembly together, threading the top cap onto the expander plug and just stick it into the steerer until the top cap is sitting on the steerer? How much to thread the top cap onto the steerer before insertion? Cane Creeks documentation doesn't cover the expander style assembly, couldn't find anything with google.

I assume its not a CaneCreek expander. The only CaneCreek model is the Ancora, which has a lip that sit on top of the steerer tube.
The purpose of an expander plug is to internally support the steerer tube from the stem clamp crushing the tube. Typically used on a carbon steerer tube. Most steel steerer have a star nut hammered into the tube.

If your expander does not have a lip and sits inside the steerer (sounds like it is because it fell down) you just need to set the expander plug low enough so your top cap fits without contact, and not so low that its below the supporting space of where your stem clamps.
You dont need to overthink this one, its sole purpose it to allow you to preload the headset bearings. Its not a critical failure clamp.

**buttahflake** · 11-04-2022, 08:06 AM

I’m riding my brothers bike while I’m down in Florida. No name carbon wheels and hubs from China, rear hub is a hair loose. Took the wheel off and pulled the quick release skewers, placed 5mm wrenches in both sides and got it snug down a bit. Does it need new cartridge bearings and if so, what am I looking at price wise and can the local shop handle this? Or am I just a total road weenie and just shut up and ride?

**Bushwacka** · 11-04-2022, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

I’m riding my brothers bike while I’m down in Florida. No name carbon wheels and hubs from China, rear hub is a hair loose. Took the wheel off and pulled the quick release skewers, placed 5mm wrenches in both sides and got it snug down a bit. Does it need new cartridge bearings and if so, what am I looking at price wise and can the local shop handle this? Or am I just a total road weenie and just shut up and ride?

dab of blue loctite on the cones and just ride it.

**buttahflake** · 11-04-2022, 08:24 AM

So take the dust caps off and look for cones?

**Bushwacka** · 11-04-2022, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

So take the dust caps off and look for cones?

I mean what ever you are tightening down. Sometime they just need re- tensioned not new bearing.

**toast2266** · 11-04-2022, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

So take the dust caps off and look for cones?

If they're just dust caps, then it sounds like they probably just preload cartridge bearings. In which case, what you did is all that's needed. Only thing to pay attention to is that QR's can sometimes add a fair amount of preload to the system once closed. So if you tightened everything snug, once the QR is closed, the system might be over tight, which will shorten the life span of the bearings. So you want the system to be *just* tight once the QR is closed.

**buttahflake** · 11-04-2022, 10:22 AM

Thanks, if I were to replace the bearings, I’m just guessing that they are 6900’s, I would need a bench vice and something to press them in, is that correct?

**toast2266** · 11-04-2022, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Thanks, if I were to replace the bearings, I’m just guessing that they are 6900’s, I would need a bench vice and something to press them in, is that correct?

Depends a bit on the hub. You could probably do it diy style with a vise. But preferably with a proper bearing press.