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Thread: Ask the experts

  1. #6926
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    Ask the experts

    Has Five Ten ever explained why for Flats if you want a stiff DH shoe, you can have the wide last with laces? Maybe one variation of it, but itll be such a marketing committee abomination itll only come up once every 3-4 years?
    And why, if you want a softer shoe, you get a dozen variations. Then the real kicker is, theyre all narrow?
    Oh, and if you want laces with a Velcro strap over, you can fuck right off?


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  2. #6927
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    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    I'm going to be starting this next season on flats (as recommended by my ortho after ACL reconstruction)... RIP my shins
    Same scenario with a reconstructed ACL, the pro's never said I should unclip but it seemed like a smart idea, I still had some old hightop 661 axo duallys from the free ride days, they have a whole bunch of ankle padding which I like for when i get caught between a rock and a hard place but really I don't think it matters that much what flat shoe

    Got a pair of Race Face Chesters, they have long screws that fit in the squiggly pattern on the soles for pretty good traction on the peddle but I think Chester will rip up the shins never mind the rocks so I don't get on the bike without knee & elbow pads

    I have since gone E-bike and probably won't go back to clips, besides Flats are better for bar hopping
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #6928
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Same scenario with a reconstructed ACL, the pro's never said I should unclip but it seemed like a smart idea, I still had some old hightop 661 axo duallys from the free ride days, they have a whole bunch of ankle padding which I like for when i get caught between a rock and a hard place but really I don't think it matters that much what flat shoe

    Got a pair of Race Face Chesters, they have long screws that fit in the squiggly pattern on the soles for pretty good traction on the peddle but I think Chester will rip up the shins never mind the rocks so I don't get on the bike without knee & elbow pads

    I have since gone E-bike and probably won't go back to clips, besides Flats are better for bar hopping
    Chesters are just about the least grippy flat pedal out there, at least among those designed for serious MTB use. If they're working for you, great, but there's a whole other world out there if that's all you've tried recently.

  4. #6929
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    Chester is cheap, some kind of plastic that doesnt stick to rocks doesnt break with some big screws sticking out, all flats have big screws sticking out, I'm pretty sure the traction comes from the big screws, a big screw is a big screw
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #6930
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Chester is cheap, some kind of plastic that doesnt stick to rocks doesnt break with some big screws sticking out, all flats have big screws sticking out, I'm pretty sure the traction comes from the big screws, a big screw is a big screw
    Pin design, placement, and platform shape matter too.

    Again, if they're working for you, awesome. But saying they're definitely on par with other stuff is flat out wrong.

  6. #6931
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post

    Do people also think that meaningful comparisons of suspension can be made without using the same wheels and tires, to suggest another example?
    Yes.

  7. #6932
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Giro Latch, Five Ten Freerider Pro, and Ride Concepts Hellion Elite could all fit the bill depending on fit and how much stiffer you want to go.

    The RC is the stiffest, and a narrow-ish fit. They run kinda long too, so if you have a narrow foot they could work well a half size down.

    The Giro and 5.10 are pretty similar in terms of stickiness and stiffness, but the Giro is significantly wider. Both are a little stickier than the RC.

    If you want REALLY sticky and can find a pair, the Freerider Contact is significantly stickier than any of the above. Kinda wide-ish.
    Thanks to you and everyone above.
    The RCs i've tried on are a bit too narrow.
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  8. #6933
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Chester is cheap, some kind of plastic that doesnt stick to rocks doesnt break with some big screws sticking out, all flats have big screws sticking out, I'm pretty sure the traction comes from the big screws, a big screw is a big screw
    wait until you find out about fooker pedals.
    www.dpsskis.com
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    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  9. #6934
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    Do people also think that meaningful comparisons of suspension can be made without using the same wheels and tires, to suggest another example?
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Yes.
    For sure. Even if "meaningful" is kind of a low bar if you can remember how to separate the observations between meaningful and not.

    For example, I'm pretty sure you could mount up the greatest wheels and tires ever and not hide the suck of trying to climb a hill with 25% AS suspension.

    What I parsed from joetron's post went something like this: a loaner wheel/tire combo had a moderately high moment of inertia (didn't accelerate particularly quick) so was either heavy, carrying a lot of weight in the rim and tire, or both. The combo allowed the bike/rider to hold a line with more stability, so either less torque imparted to the bars or less course corrections or both (the fact of holding the intended net line at the end of a corner carries some weight here). That could stem from added gyro effect or more compliance, either in the rim or the tire (or both). There's more, but climberevan probably gets the idea. This isn't MTBR, it's just off season.

    I'll probably ask more questions later. Just by way of a trigger warning.

  10. #6935
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Chesters are just about the least grippy flat pedal out there, at least among those designed for serious MTB use. If they're working for you, great, but there's a whole other world out there if that's all you've tried recently.
    So what are better examples? Especially composite/plastic?

    Edit - have been ok w/ Chesters for past few years, but I'm primarily (70%) a clipped rider. Just picked up CB Stamps which have heard good things.
    Last edited by VTskibum; 01-27-2022 at 09:05 AM.

  11. #6936
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTskibum View Post
    So what are better examples? Especially composite/plastic?
    I got a pair of one ups for my hardtail that my wife and I share with the mac-ride for our son, we don't thrash them, to be fair, but decent platform and lots of grip
    https://can.oneupcomponents.com/coll...cts/comp-pedal

  12. #6937
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    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    wait until you find out about fooker pedals.
    A flat pedal is a chunk of plastic or aluminium with 8 screws sticking out, if I can't taste the coolaid do have covid ?

    yeah the Fookers look like a Chester knock-off or the question might be whom is knocking off whom ? They come in 6 colors so you can match something on the bike or whatever

    Shop bro thru in the Chesters, sez he has probably sold 150 pair and only had one come back so I doubt i will need to buy more pedals

    To keep that E-motor on the boil I tend to just keep pedaling at the same cadence to keep moving and hit a LOT of rocks stumps & stuff that I would not on an acoustic bike
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #6938
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    To keep that E-motor on the boil I tend to just keep pedaling at the same cadence to keep moving and hit a LOT of rocks stumps & stuff that I would not on an acoustic bike
    How does this jive with the common argument that mopeds actually require effort and somehow allow their riders to gain MORE fitness by going longer? It sure sounds like you're aknowledging the fact that the only effort required is to keep the pedals moving in circles....

    My GF has Chester/Fooker pedals and complains that they are TOO grippy. I've told her that pedals are supposed to be grippy and that they don't strive to create slippery ones. She's just terrified beyond all reason of crashing and not getting her feet free. I gave up on trying to get her to go clipless after she started regularly doing 50 mile MTB rides on her flats. It obviously works for her, so it's not worth arguing over.

    To further stir the pot: when you guys compare skis do you do it on different days, in different conditions, and in different boots?
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  14. #6939
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTskibum View Post
    So what are better examples? Especially composite/plastic?

    Edit - have been ok w/ Chesters for past few years, but I'm primarily (70%) a clipped rider. Just picked up CB Stamps which have heard good things.
    Deity Deftrap would be my first recommendation for plastic.

  15. #6940
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    To further stir the pot: when you guys compare skis do you do it on different days, in different conditions, and in different boots?
    Of course not. I make a list at the beginning of the year, and on January 7th (the day that, according to meteorological data has the most representative snow conditions for North America), I show up at the hill with 30 pairs of skis that have all been structured and waxed identically, and with bevels set to the factory recommendations. I diligently ski precisely the same run on each ski and note my conclusions in a spreadsheet. It gets tricky though, because by about 11:30 a.m. the snow has warmed up a bit, which obviously renders any further comparisons completely meaningless.

  16. #6941
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Of course not. I make a list at the beginning of the year, and on January 7th (the day that, according to meteorological data has the most representative snow conditions for North America), I show up at the hill with 30 pairs of skis that have all been structured and waxed identically, and with bevels set to the factory recommendations. I diligently ski precisely the same run on each ski and note my conclusions in a spreadsheet. It gets tricky though, because by about 11:30 a.m. the snow has warmed up a bit, which obviously renders any further comparisons completely meaningless.
    That's what I try to do, but I'm short on stamina so I narrow it down to about 6. Good call using January 7, though, that's always my go to as well. It's probably the wrong forum for it, but my spreadsheet coefficients for accounting for tiring legs could really use some help. I'm stuck in a linear regression model like it's the 1990's or something. Perhaps the spreadsheet guys can assist?

  17. #6942
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    How does this jive with the common argument that mopeds actually require effort and somehow allow their riders to gain MORE fitness by going longer? It sure sounds like you're aknowledging the fact that the only e,ffort required is to keep the pedals moving in circles....

    My GF has Chester/Fooker pedals and complains that they are TOO grippy. I've told her that pedals are supposed to be grippy and that they don't strive to create slippery ones. She's just terrified beyond all reason of crashing and not getting her feet free. I gave up on trying to get her to go clipless after she started regularly doing 50 mile MTB rides on her flats. It obviously works for her, so it's not worth arguing over.

    To further stir the pot: when you guys compare skis do you do it on different days, in different conditions, and in different boots?
    Shop bro told me they don't sell electric mopeds cuz they are not legal but you could get an argument from somebody who sells electric mopeds, I could order an E moped with a throttle on line and the courier will deliver it to my door

    In comparison your local LBS ( norco, Santa cruz ect ) sells pedal assisted E-bikes with no throttle, they are governed to < 32 kph, yes you can just move the pedals or you can pedal harder, I think most mtn bikers will pedal harder

    For me I go out for the same amount of time or usually longer as I did on the acoustic bike on the exact same trails as i did on an acoustic bike, they are all on a bluff so go straight up, I pedal at a constant rate and ride about 3 times as far, and I do lose weight that I never did on an acoustic bike

    so to answer your question IME the motor smooths out the effort needed and lengthens the ride on steep hills, keeps the heart at a healthier BPM, and I lose weight

    I supose how a flat grips will depend on the shoe/ pin interface, I'm using a shoe that was popular 20 yrs ago, seems to work

    IME/IMO you can't really compare skis on different conditions
    Last edited by XXX-er; 01-27-2022 at 11:00 AM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #6943
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    That's what I try to do, but I'm short on stamina so I narrow it down to about 6. Good call using January 7, though, that's always my go to as well. It's probably the wrong forum for it, but my spreadsheet coefficients for accounting for tiring legs could really use some help. I'm stuck in a linear regression model like it's the 1990's or something. Perhaps the spreadsheet guys can assist?
    If you're not pulling blood samples every lap to measure lactic acid buildup, you really can't even begin to act like you have comparable results.

  19. #6944
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    If you're not pulling blood samples every lap to measure lactic acid buildup, you really can't even begin to act like you have comparable results.
    Damn. I was afraid of that, but I just didn't want to believe it.

  20. #6945
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  21. #6946
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Deity Deftrap would be my first recommendation for plastic.
    Seconded. HAB's way gnarlier than me, but I fully agree.

    Chesters flat out suck. It's almost irresponsible how many folks get sold Chesters as their introduction to flat pedals, and never get a chance to try something better. Deftraps are a night and day difference in terms of grip and stability. Something about the shape of the Chester makes it more likely to flip under pressure and kick your feet off and eat your shins/calf.

    In the last few years I went from Crampons (made my feet cramp and not enough grip) to Stamps (pretty good, but not enough grip and they needed a rebuild faster than I'd have expected) to OneUps (thought they were perfect until I tried Deftraps) to Deftraps. Might get weird and try some Tennets, but for the price, it's damn near impossible to beat Deftraps.

  22. #6947
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    Hey there: Im hoping to find a 29er boost wheelset in the i40-50 range (looking to seat 2.6 up to 3.0 tires), and Id prefer carbon but Id also prefer not to wait a year. Im out of the loop, just spent a couple months moving across country. Id prioritize availability over price. Also no clue what the ideal iw is for that tire size.

  23. #6948
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    Farsports and Light Bicycle probably have rims in stock, so delivery would be a few weeks.

    On our 29+ bikes she has 50mm IW and I have 40mm. I think the 50 gives a better profile for the 3.0" tires, but if you're likey to go 2.6-2.8" a 40 would prob be better.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  24. #6949
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    Hey there: Im hoping to find a 29er boost wheelset in the i40-50 range (looking to seat 2.6 up to 3.0 tires), and Id prefer carbon but Id also prefer not to wait a year. Im out of the loop, just spent a couple months moving across country. Id prioritize availability over price. Also no clue what the ideal iw is for that tire size.
    I ran 2.6 on 30 and 34 rims. If youre in the 2.6-2.8 Id say 40 is plenty.

    BTLOS is having a sale right now. 39mm inner asymmetric with DT350 32H Sapim Race spokes is $816 shipped.

  25. #6950
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    I am running Line Pro 40s on my 29+ bike with 3" tires. I'm with Evan on this one. My 41mm IW rims do fine but 50 would probably be better. Currently running 2.8 studded Terrene Cake Eaters for the winter and they measure out to about 2.7".

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