Ask the experts

[jm2e]

Thoughts on the shock wiz. Still dialing in the new bike. I can rent one for $80 or buy one and donate it to the local NICA team after I set up my/ my wife's bike.

I've got one and between wife and me we've used it a ton. We have a lot of coil suspension now, so it's been collecting dust for a while. I literally just bought an X2 for my DH bike, so I'll be using mine for the next couple weeks to dial it in. After that, I'd be happy to loan it out for shipping and beer money.

Here's what it gets you:
It teaches you to focus on one thing at a time.
And it teaches you what order to prioritize. They make it very clear that until you dial in your spring rate, there's no point in adjusting any knobs.
Once you get into adjusting knobs, you quickly learn that there is no perfect tune. Every single lap will give you slightly different info, unless you're a pro lapping the same track. So eventually you come to grips with the fact that you really just need a good average tune for yourself.
For me, using the Shock Wiz takes a lot of the nagging doubt out of the back of your mind. Yea, I might have set the shock up correctly, but I'm also convinced I fucked it up half the time. Shock Wiz curbs that pretty well.

[Andeh]

Hot take on ShockWiz: they're nearly useless for most riders. The tuning profiles are pretty ambiguous as to what they do. The calibration is very error prone. They don't work on coils. They don't work in conjunction front/rear to tell you anything about balance.

[tgapp]

Dumb shock question:

If I want to increase the travel on my 2015 Pike RCT3 from 130 to 140 I can just change out the air spring, right? And this would be the correct part?

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00G239W...4PKV7PQ58BX2X4

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[dan_pdx]

Maybe a little OT, but any suggestions on sports drink for longer rides? I'm still on old school Gatorade, which TBH seems to work fine for me, but wondering if there might be something better out there.

[tgapp]

Maybe a little OT, but any suggestions on sports drink for longer rides? I'm still on old school Gatorade, which TBH seems to work fine for me, but wondering if there might be something better out there.

this is what i love:

https://www.hammernutrition.com/perpetuem

it's much more caloric than gatorade but i've used it for years for all sorts of long endurance things and it does a great job at preventing bonking

[XXX-er]

i used Perpetuem for a 24 hr event and didnt bonk or get sick whereas the year before i hadn't worked out the fueling of the body and bonked 4 times

ultra runners can use it and not get sick

In an ultra using gatorade will probably make you sick

[climberevan]

Maybe a little OT, but any suggestions on sports drink for longer rides? I'm still on old school Gatorade, which TBH seems to work fine for me, but wondering if there might be something better out there.

I've been doing a lot of liquid calories this year and am finding it to be excellent to avoid energy dips. I still get the majority of my calories from solid foods (mostly my DIY rice cake) but the liquid helps, especially on harder rides.

I have 2 go-to DIY mixes. For rides shorter than 3h I use pure maltodextrin (which is mostly glucose): with a little table salt and some fake Crystal Light or lemon juice. It's cheap and not super sweet. I mix it at about 100 Cal per bottle but you can go to about 150.

For longer rides one can benefit from a mix of glucose and fructose at roughly 2:1. The fructose will allow you to absorb more calories than just the glucose. This can be over 200 Cal/bottle.

The shorter answer is that your body wants sugar while you're exercising. If Gatorade works for you, it's unlikely there's much to be gained by overthinking it. Some people use regular table sugar (sucrose) and others use pancake syrup (mostly fructose). If you're going harder than recovery pace for >2h, it's very unlikely you can take in enough calories to replace what you're using, so adding fuel will prob help. You're not going to get fat from eating while riding your bike.

Edit: Perpetuem is amazing stuff, but extremely expensive. For regular training efforts between 3-8 hours I suspect you can do just as well with the 2:1 malto:fructose blend, and save money for tires. IMO, save the expensive stuff for special occasions. (Perpetuem Ingredients: Maltodextrin, Isolated Soy Protein, Energy Smart (Grape Juice, Rice Dextrin), Soy Lecithin, Coffee, Natural Flavor, Trisodium Phosphate, Amino Acids (L-Carnosine, L-Carnitine Tartrate), Choline Bitartrate, Stevia, Chromium Polynicotinate, Caffeine.)

[rideit]

I make a blend of magnesium, potassium, and maltodextrin with some pink lemonade powder.
Cheap on Amazon/eBay. Sometimes a little salt..
Sometimes a little cran-cherry juice for better flavor.
But I used cytomax for years.

[EWG]

Maybe a little OT, but any suggestions on sports drink for longer rides? I'm still on old school Gatorade, which TBH seems to work fine for me, but wondering if there might be something better out there.

I made a spreadsheet about 4 years ago comparing hydration drinks. Dee Hubbs would have been quite proud. Base gatorade sucks, by the way. It's a sweet drink for sugar cravers, not a sports drink. Anyway, I was looking for two things - a low sugar daily hydration mix (since giardia I have had some issue with hydration and absorption. Pedialyte is the one people know), and a during exercise hydration drink (these have more calories/sugar in them.)

I compared calories, sugar, types of sugar, salts, potassium etc, from a number of high and low end manufacturers. I included cost per ounce, normalizing delivered non-water content. This is obviously a little bit of an art because some products have a bit more potassium to sugar ration, or a bit lower salt to fructose or glucose ratio, etc. I didn't care if it was organic or not. I have access to prodeals for many high end drinks, so for some of those I used my price rather than the retail price. I should also admit that, knowing some of the high end manufacturer's personally, I don't put a ton of stock in the difference in "quality" of ingredient.

Having done all that I was pretty shocked at the result. I've always used stuff like Skratch, Osmo, Clif, etc. However, there is a product out there called Gatorade Endurance. Very hard to find actually, but available in bulk powder on amazon, and it's what they actually make for their athletes. When mixed at recommended levels it is pretty ideal for active, during workout hydration. When mixed at half the recommended it is almost perfect for a daily hydration drink. And it's about 60 cents per 12 oz exercise serving and 30 cents per 12 oz daily hydration serving.

Nothing else comes even close.

That's what I recommend.

[Dantheman]

Never heard of Gatorade Endurance, interesting. I'm curious what the glucose:fructose ratio is with the ingredients being sucrose, malto, and fructose. Might be a little heavier fructose than ideal, but the price sure is right.

[sf]

Sounds to me like your negative chamber isn't getting pressurised. Can you hear air transfering into it when you compress the fork while your airing up? Excess grease in the air spring can cause the transfer port to get clogged. Mine usually gets over pressurised when it gets clogged resulting in the fork not topping out all the way. Theoretically could go either way though. Did the shop do a full damper teardown? If they got your compression shims back in wrong it could feel that way too. You said you backed the compression way off, does changing the compression settings do anything in either direction?

As stated by many, the latest generations of the 36 are great forks and what you're describing isn't remotely 'normal'. You don't have to fuck around with aftermarket air spring changes to get it to feel good. Your fork is malfunctioning, for sure bring it back to the shop tell them that.

I spoke with the guy who did the service today, he basically said the same thing. And no; there is no sound of air transferring. The service was done before christmas, so he couldn't remember excatly what he did to it. He doesn't work there anymore, but he'd have a look at it. Friend of a friend, so I'm not worried.

Re your question about effect of compression. Yes, changing it works, but everything feels harder than it should. At full damping it feel pretty much locked out. At all the way of if almost feels like it's in "pedal". It's a FIT4 damper

[dan_pdx]

Thanks everyone for the deep dive on rocket fuel aka sports drinks. As a longtime customer of boring old Gatorade, I'm going to look for some Gatorade Endurance and see how it goes.

[g_man80]

RE: Drinks. I don't have much to add and I haven't tried all the options, but I've been happy with First Endurance EFS drink powder. Doesn't seem to be as sweet as other options. My biggest concern was an upset stomach, but I've been happy with how my stomach feels drinking EFS during long days.

[smmokan]

I made a spreadsheet about 4 years ago comparing hydration drinks. Dee Hubbs would have been quite proud. Base gatorade sucks, by the way. It's a sweet drink for sugar cravers, not a sports drink. Anyway, I was looking for two things - a low sugar daily hydration mix (since giardia I have had some issue with hydration and absorption. Pedialyte is the one people know), and a during exercise hydration drink (these have more calories/sugar in them.)

I compared calories, sugar, types of sugar, salts, potassium etc, from a number of high and low end manufacturers. I included cost per ounce, normalizing delivered non-water content. This is obviously a little bit of an art because some products have a bit more potassium to sugar ration, or a bit lower salt to fructose or glucose ratio, etc. I didn't care if it was organic or not. I have access to prodeals for many high end drinks, so for some of those I used my price rather than the retail price. I should also admit that, knowing some of the high end manufacturer's personally, I don't put a ton of stock in the difference in "quality" of ingredient.

Having done all that I was pretty shocked at the result. I've always used stuff like Skratch, Osmo, Clif, etc. However, there is a product out there called Gatorade Endurance. Very hard to find actually, but available in bulk powder on amazon, and it's what they actually make for their athletes. When mixed at recommended levels it is pretty ideal for active, during workout hydration. When mixed at half the recommended it is almost perfect for a daily hydration drink. And it's about 60 cents per 12 oz exercise serving and 30 cents per 12 oz daily hydration serving.

Nothing else comes even close.

That's what I recommend.

What are your thoughts on calories/protein in a during-ride drink vs something that's mostly just about carbs/sodium/sugar, specifically for someone that's not racing but just wants to do longer rides more efficiently? I'm looking at the Perpetuem nutrition and it has a bunch of calories (270 per serving, I believe) and a decent amount of protein, but very little sugar. Whereas the Gatorade Endurance stuff you recommended has quite a bit of sugar in each serving.

I used to use Infinit Go Far and Speed and it seemed to work pretty well at keeping me going, but damn that sugar was tough to deal with.

[SchralphMacchio]

Dumb shock question:

If I want to increase the travel on my 2015 Pike RCT3 from 130 to 140 I can just change out the air spring, right? And this would be the correct part?

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00G239W...4PKV7PQ58BX2X4

I'm *not* an expert but no one has answered your question yet, so here is what I understand:
-you didn't say 27.5 vs 29 but I'll assume 29 based on the Amazon part you linked
-2015 is most likely a Pike A1, so you want the compatible air spring
-I *think* that part you linked will work (part numbers don't match current catalog, would want to cross reference them to an older parts catalog), but I figure you might as well upgrade to a Debonair air spring upgrade kit if you're getting a new air spring anyways
-Page 83 of this page has the SRAM part number https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/..._-_rev_f_0.pdf
-00.4019.931.007
-ideally you also want 24mm and 30mm sockets to do the swap

[Eluder]

I’d also be in for that.... maybe a shop or industry mag could hook us up?


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I can facilitate, If you get a total of how many people are interested I can let those people know how much they would be putting down. Markup isn't crazy on electronics but it will be cheaper than 329.

If this happens there should be some rules specifically no Jongs and maybe you donate a small amount of money to getting underprivileged kids on bikes or something.

[dcpnz]

Re fluid food I used to use the two Hammer products, Perpetuem for longer efforts and Heed for shorter outings. Problem was I hated the powdery taste of the perpetuem which lead to not wanting to drink it.

Switched to Infinit Nutrition.
Tastes much better, not inexpensive but after their consultant customized my blend I bumped up the ingredients in same ratio and dilute it a bit more to get more servings from a bag, and buy it when they had promotions.

Then I stopped training and racing and I've got bags of the stuff sitting around that I'm gradually working thru......

[Sandbox]

I can facilitate, If you get a total of how many people are interested I can let those people know how much they would be putting down. Markup isn't crazy on electronics but it will be cheaper than 329.

If this happens there should be some rules specifically no Jongs and maybe you donate a small amount of money to getting underprivileged kids on bikes or something.

That would be cool. I’m happy to do whatever. I’m in Canada so maybe we would do a usa tour then a canadian tour? At least here in the rockys we aren’t consistently riding till mid/ late May.

Think we would need good scheduling ( not keeping it 4 weeks) and ensure guys ship it with tracking and insurance.


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[tgapp]

I'm *not* an expert but no one has answered your question yet, so here is what I understand:
-you didn't say 27.5 vs 29 but I'll assume 29 based on the Amazon part you linked
-2015 is most likely a Pike A1, so you want the compatible air spring
-I *think* that part you linked will work (part numbers don't match current catalog, would want to cross reference them to an older parts catalog), but I figure you might as well upgrade to a Debonair air spring upgrade kit if you're getting a new air spring anyways
-Page 83 of this page has the SRAM part number https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/..._-_rev_f_0.pdf
-00.4019.931.007
-ideally you also want 24mm and 30mm sockets to do the swap

thanks, this is exactly the help i needed. appreciate it!!

[John_B]

This is a derail from biking nutrition but my FIL is doing a road bike trip in NY this summer and needs some sort of bike bag to check his bike on his flight across the country.. What do folks recommend for an affordable bike bag? He's not super mechanically inclined so I think that the more his bike can stay together the better.

[El Chupacabra]

This is a derail from biking nutrition but my FIL is doing a road bike trip in NY this summer and needs some sort of bike bag to ship his bike across the country. What do folks recommend for an affordable bike bag? He's not super mechanically inclined so I think that the more his bike can stay together the better.

Have him bring it to a shop, have them package and ship for him. If there's some national chain at each end of his shipping, that could make it easier - like an REI or Scheels - ship from one REI to another.

[John_B]

Whoops. Poor wording on my part. I believe his plan is to check it on his flight. Original post edited. I'll inquire more.

[EWG]

What are your thoughts on calories/protein in a during-ride drink vs something that's mostly just about carbs/sodium/sugar, specifically for someone that's not racing but just wants to do longer rides more efficiently? I'm looking at the Perpetuem nutrition and it has a bunch of calories (270 per serving, I believe) and a decent amount of protein, but very little sugar. Whereas the Gatorade Endurance stuff you recommended has quite a bit of sugar in each serving.

I used to use Infinit Go Far and Speed and it seemed to work pretty well at keeping me going, but damn that sugar was tough to deal with.

Gatorade Endurance, like most hydration drinks, really isn't a calorie source so much as a hydration source. It has 22g of carbs per 12oz serving (90 calories). Works out to 1.8g/7.5ca per oz. This is in the ballpark for most quality hydration drinks. As an example, Osmo has .77g/3.5ca per oz, but it also has less sodium and potassium because they are telling you to dilute it more. You have to normalize the dosage to something to understand how it works because you can mix it as strong or as weak as you want. That's the key.

So, for an example, normalize to grams of carbs (everything is converted to a serving wherein you drink 22g of carbs):

Gatorade Endurance
22g carbs, 90 calories, 300mg sodium, 140mg potassium
Skratch
22g carbs, 88 calories, 418mg sodium, 50mg potassium
Osmo
22g carbs, 91 calories, 336mg sodium, 124mg potassium
Clif
22g carbs, 88 calories, 275mg sodium, 55mg potassium

So, as you can see when things are normalized for dilution the picture changes. Now it's about how much sodium and potassium is in the mix (and magnesium and calcium, but that's a different topic and I'd need my spreadsheet for that.) I'm big on potassium in the mix, so I prefer the Osmo and Gatorade Endurance levels of that. And the GE is so damn cheap it was a no brainer. If I need more salt I just eat some on food.

Let's compare to Go Far
Infinit Go Far how they tell you to mix it
22g carbs, 280 calories, 379mg sodium, 110mg potassium
Infinit Go Far normalized to compare to above
22g carbs, 93 calories, 126mg sodium, 36mg potassium

Holy cow they tell you to mix it thick. That's crazy. At those levels it's not hydration, it's food. Unless you are doing a 2 hour+ max effort right on the edge of what you can do the entire time, do not drink your food. Like a TdF 3 hour time trial. Even then I wouldn't advise it. Eat something easy to digest instead. But most of us are not riding right at FTP the entire time, and we don't have to drink our food. Just eat. Drink for hydration, then figure out what you need to eat to keep going based on the length and effort of your ride. And the food is a separate topic, but generally, assuming a ride of 2-7 hours, the harder you are working the more I would recommend carbs, and the easier you are working the more I'd consider protein. More on that if you are interested, as that's a terrible oversimplification.

And if you want to take it to the nth degree, don't eat when you just drank a bunch of hydration drink. Let that absorb, then drink water with your food.

Oh, and this is fun, wanna go crazy? Look at Pedialyte Sport normalized to 22g
22g carbs, 73 calories, 1,198mg sodium, 1,148mg potassium

Stuff is pickle juice. So you could always guzzle that and see what happens.

[toast2266]

This is a derail from biking nutrition but my FIL is doing a road bike trip in NY this summer and needs some sort of bike bag to check his bike on his flight across the country.. What do folks recommend for an affordable bike bag? He's not super mechanically inclined so I think that the more his bike can stay together the better.

Check around with local shops and see if any of them will rent a bike bag to him. The bike bags definitely offer better protection than a cardboard box, but any worthwhile bag is gonna be $400+ to purchase.

Alternatively, yeah, just have a shop box it for him.

[Eluder]

Check around with local shops and see if any of them will rent a bike bag to him. The bike bags definitely offer better protection than a cardboard box, but any worthwhile bag is gonna be $400+ to purchase.

Alternatively, yeah, just have a shop box it for him.

I was really hoping you would chime in with your perpetuem and heed addictions.