Ask the experts

[J. Barron DeJong]

I mean, take a freshly lubed chain and slap it on your workbench. There is now lube on your workbench that is no longer on the chain. Do that a few thousand times to replicate riding down a rough trail. There's a bunch of lube on your bench, and a bunch less lube on the chain.

Some lubes seem to hold up better to that kind of thing, but I haven't conducted any kind of coherent experiments to know which ones are best.

Are you talking wet lube?

With wax you could get that to happen, but it also sheds from just spinning the cranks, and there’s lots of flexing/back bending/loading/unloading as the chain makes it’s way around each time when pedaling, so I don’t see how bouncing around under little load is much worse.

If it’s wet lube being shaken out, then maybe a wet lube that requires very little amount to perform, like Silca Synergetic, or NixFrixShun could work better in theory.

[toast2266]

Are you talking wet lube?

With wax you could get that to happen, but it also sheds from just spinning the cranks, and there’s lots of flexing/back bending/loading/unloading as the chain makes it’s way around each time when pedaling, so I don’t see how bouncing around under little load is much worse.

If it’s wet lube being shaken out, then maybe a wet lube that requires very little amount to perform, like Silca Synergetic, or NixFrixShun could work better in theory.

I'm talking every kind of lube I've ever used. Wax lubes are certainly the worst in terms of longevity, but every lube lasts less long when it gets severely jostled, in my experience.

But yeah, that makes sense re: a wet lube that requires less to perform. Maybe I'll do a little experimenting.

[evasive_MT]

No love for Dumonde Tech ey?


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My usual lube was 50/50 Dumonde blue and yellow. I’ve been a repeat buy of the Wolftooth lube since trying it.

[bagtagley]

pretty much this , I think its^^ a pretty good product and I don't really want to spend a whole bunch of time lubing a chain

Try Smoove. Similar to Squirt but lasts a good bit longer IME.

[XXX-er]

Squirt is easy to get a hold of, I get 3 rides out of a Squirt app so I'm fine with that ^^ , i have a few bottles of it squirreled away cuz I order squirt to bring up my final total for free shipping on mail orders

A dumb question I hope but are folks who get the wax product coming off letting the water evaporate over night or at least a few hrs ?

I found dribblng some squirt on a flat surface at room temp it takes a couple of hrs for the water to evap and then its like scraping off candle drippings,

I also tried dripping Squirt into a small container to see if I could get it to solidify into a chunk but that doesnt really work

[bagtagley]

Mezzer Pro damper service time. Thought I had 5wt but all I have is Maxima 7wt or an ancient bottle of Spectro Golden 5wt. Gotta get it back together tonight so I’m ignoring any “yer gonna die” responses. I’m leaning 7wt. Been a while since I played with fluid weight to change damping, but I kinda recall 2-3wt changes not making a huge difference.

[Dee Hubbs]

Mezzer Pro damper service time. Thought I had 5wt but all I have is Maxima 7wt or an ancient bottle of Spectro Golden 5wt. Gotta get it back together tonight so I’m ignoring any “yer gonna die” responses. I’m leaning 7wt. Been a while since I played with fluid weight to change damping, but I kinda recall 2-3wt changes not making a huge difference.

Are you worried the "ancient" oil has gone bad over time? Before it was open on your shelf for 10 years, it was in the ground since the Mesozoic age, 65 to 250 millions years ago.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Since I decided this is lube chart day, here’s single application longevity.

Dry road:



Dry off road (dry contamination):



I guess guys concerned about longevity on their gravel enduros should give Rex Black Diamond + Race Day Spray a try.

[bagtagley]

Are you worried the "ancient" oil has gone bad over time? Before it was open on your shelf for 10 years, it was in the ground since the Mesozoic age, 65 to 250 millions years ago.

Not really worried that it’s gone bad, more worried that additive technology has changed a lot in 15 years and it may be lacking the vitamins and minerals a growing fork needs.

Doesn’t matter, I tracked a bottle of Maxima 5wt down. Thanks for the help, though. 🤣

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Do I need to cut the head off and go find a new bolt? B gap on this bike is like 20mm...no wonder it shifts like ass

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[toast2266]

Cut the bent side of the bolt off with a dremel or hacksaw as close to the derailleur as you can. Take the derailleur off. Use pliers or whatever on the "hanger" end of the bolt to extract the rest of it.

Or just try straightening it. If it straightens enough to remove, great. If it snaps, see above.

[grskier]

Cut the bent side of the bolt off with a dremel or hacksaw as close to the derailleur as you can. Take the derailleur off. Use pliers or whatever on the "hanger" end of the bolt to extract the rest of it.

Or just try straightening it. If it straightens enough to remove, great. If it snaps, see above.

This.

I'd also tease them that this means new bike day... and they need a really nice new 170mm fork on that new bike... and actually, you have a better one to swap out...

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Haha, swapped out the b screw for a new one. Cut the old off with a fein tool.

Now can I do anything about this abomination?



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[toast2266]

lol.

Use the same fein tool to cut off the front shifter and front derailleur. Rotate the dropper lever to the correct position.

Or buy a dropper lever that's compatible with shifters. The vertical kind. They kinda suck, but it's the option.

[grskier]

Haha, swapped out the b screw for a new one. Cut the old off with a fein tool.

Now can I do anything about this abomination?

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They have top levers for 2x still....

anything else and you're increasing the reach.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Ok so I'm off the deep end tinkering again.

Shifting on my bike is hard at the lever. I just put new cable, housing, and chain on. Shimano XT 12spd. I did a climb yesterday and shifting was so nice and at the top I realized the clutch was off the whole time. Sticky clutch?

[John_B]

Damnit WRG!! One variable at a time!!

Edit: That's assuming you did the new cable at the same time as turning the clutch off. Otherwise I'd say that makes sense.

[joetron]

Do you notice it on the stand or out riding?
Shimano 12sp feels worse on the stand than actually pedaling on the bike. Its designed to shift under load.


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[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Out riding it sucks. I did cable and housing first.......wow somehow it got harder to shift. A couple rides later. Figured my chain must be bad. New chain. Shifts great on the bike without clutch. Shifts OK and hard to push the actual shifter with clutch on.

[SchralphMacchio]

Discovered that my Park Tool CC-3.2 gives nowhere near the same reading as the CC-2. CC3.2 is mine, CC-2 belongs to my shop.
CC-2 measured 0.75% elongation on a chain that my CC-3.2 would not drop into at 0.5%. The chain had 2 years of riding on it anyways so I agreed with the shop’s call to replace with a new one while I had them doing a full preseason tune up. For shits and giggles, I had them check the new one with their CC-2 and it measured at 0.5%.

The shop tech seemed very uninterested in having a discussion with me about tool variation, whether my tool or their tool was more likely to be out of spec, what difference roller diameter can play when using a tool that measures from inside-to-inside relative to rollers, etc. They took it kind of defensively and I had to reiterate that I had no issue replacing the chain, I just wanted to resolve whether I, the shop, or both of us should be using different chain elongation measurement tools in this day and age and how to know what’s what - because the discrepancy between the two tools had surprised me. I decided to just let things be cool and peace out …

I’m thinking I should get a CC-4 moving forward as it measures from inside-to-outside so roller diameter should theoretically not play a role in how the tool measures … but that it will still have a discrepancy issue with the CC-2!

What say the experts?

[joetron]

The cc-2 is worthless. Too easy to tweak out of calibration.
CC-4 is a good call.
When service writing, I usually use the Shimano TL-CN42 as a go/no-go and then drop in the Pedro’s Chain Checker 2 Plus (which is basically the same as CC-4) to confirm clapped-ness or check wear.


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[Eluder]

Discovered that my Park Tool CC-3.2 gives nowhere near the same reading as the CC-2. CC3.2 is mine, CC-2 belongs to my shop.
CC-2 measured 0.75% elongation on a chain that my CC-3.2 would not drop into at 0.5%. The chain had 2 years of riding on it anyways so I agreed with the shop’s call to replace with a new one while I had them doing a full preseason tune up. For shits and giggles, I had them check the new one with their CC-2 and it measured at 0.5%.

The shop tech seemed very uninterested in having a discussion with me about tool variation, whether my tool or their tool was more likely to be out of spec, what difference roller diameter can play when using a tool that measures from inside-to-inside relative to rollers, etc. They took it kind of defensively and I had to reiterate that I had no issue replacing the chain, I just wanted to resolve whether I, the shop, or both of us should be using different chain elongation measurement tools in this day and age and how to know what’s what - because the discrepancy between the two tools had surprised me. I decided to just let things be cool and peace out …

I’m thinking I should get a CC-4 moving forward as it measures from inside-to-outside so roller diameter should theoretically not play a role in how the tool measures … but that it will still have a discrepancy issue with the CC-2!

What say the experts?

Its over priced but I really like the shimano chain checker. It pushes the rollers to take out the slack. Its a go or no-go tool.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Its over priced but I really like the shimano chain checker. It pushes the rollers to take out the slack. It’s a go or no-go tool.

The shimano one is what Zero Friction recommends (it’s ZF day for me today). They’re apparently very consistent from one to the next since they’re laser cut, whereas the stamped tools have rough edges that can introduce some significant variation in their readings.

What he’s actually using for his testing is the KMC digital chain checker. Now that Gunder is back, he can probably tell you how well that one works .

[Spencer123]

First frame build and man there are so many details I didn’t know enough to wonder about.

1. Stem stack height: My understanding of this is that is describes how much space on the steerer tube the stem takes up. If I am replacing a 42 mm stack height zero degree rise stem with a 30 mm stack height zero degree rise stem, will it but the bars in the same place, or 12 mm lower?

2. Crown race: Our frame is a V3 Hightower with the stock headset left in it. The info I have for it is: Cane Creek 40 integrated headset (IS41/52). We have a lyrik ultimate that is a take-off from a 2022 evil the offering with the Crown race already on it. The headset specs for that bike are: Cane Creek 40 ZS44/28.6/h8ZS62/40.

Are all Cane creek 40 bottom bearings the same so the crown race should work, or am I going to run into compatibility issues and need to replace it possibly? Do I check this just by seeing if it seems to line up and seal?

Thank you for the help!

[Andeh]

1. it depends. Assuming that both stems have the bar part equally spaced from the top and bottom of the steerer part, I think the bar would be 6mm lower (half the total stack height difference).

2. you can use the same crown race. Per CC website: ZS62/40 will take a 52mm bearing, IS52/40 will take a 52mm bearing, so same crown race. You can use 110 crown races with 40 headsets and vice versa.