Ask the experts

[Beaver]

Well, I just flew at it and got it apart. The pressure stick is fuct. A new one costs 75% of the whole post so I think it's going in the trash.

Any comment on Brand X from chain reaction?

A friend has a KS Lev eTen i that spooged oil into his frame. He asked if I could fix it, so I said I'd look into it. Since it spewed all it's oil I think it will need more than a basic seal refresh. I found a bunch of videos showing basic maintenance seal replacements but none showing how to repair the shock cartridge. Is it one of those don't even attempt type things? If so, where would you send one for rebuild?

[jm2e]

tgapp,
What the collective is trying to tell you is this:
1. 10 years ago, biking was fun, but geometry and suspension design was still really low on the trial & error curve.
2. 6 years ago some bikes were starting to show us that that trial & error was taking us to a wonderful place. Precious few of those bikes were 29ers.
3. 3 years ago, everyone had finally gotten the various memos. Even most 29ers felt good. Even long travel bikes pedaled well. Even short travel bikes descended well.
4. By now, bikes are so good that it’s weird to find a bad one from a known company. So we argue about theory and minutiae and usually the guy with the best vocabulary wins. But it doesn’t matter because we’re all winning.
5. At the end of the day, your weird rando carbon too-good-to-be-true bike will probably be an okay bike. But it’s likely to feel like something 6-10 years ago. And it’s a huge liability with the anonymous carbon source. Which is why most of us would pass.


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[tgapp]

tgapp,
What the collective is trying to tell you is this:
1. 10 years ago, biking was fun, but geometry and suspension design was still really low on the trial & error curve.
2. 6 years ago some bikes were starting to show us that that trial & error was taking us to a wonderful place. Precious few of those bikes were 29ers.
3. 3 years ago, everyone had finally gotten the various memos. Even most 29ers felt good. Even long travel bikes pedaled well. Even short travel bikes descended well.
4. By now, bikes are so good that it’s weird to find a bad one from a known company. So we argue about theory and minutiae and usually the guy with the best vocabulary wins. But it doesn’t matter because we’re all winning.
5. At the end of the day, your weird rando carbon too-good-to-be-true bike will probably be an okay bike. But it’s likely to feel like something 6-10 years ago. And it’s a huge liability with the anonymous carbon source. Which is why most of us would pass.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

thank you, yep, sounds about par for the course on tgr. this brought to you by the same illuminous minds that managed to argue over where upstate new york is for a few thousand replies. and as good of an answer as that was, I did enjoy the 5+ pages of about suspension name dropping.

i don't have a point of reference really but I love my evil following. it's not bad to pedal at all and it's super fast going down. or i feel like it's fast anyway. i'm not fast at all.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[toast2266]

^^^ Sprockets doesn't agree about anything. We can't agree on which chain lube to use, we can't agree on what length cranks to use, we can't agree about which tires are worth buying, and we can't even agree if the new Nevegals will kill you.

Literally the only thing I've ever seen this forum agree on is that Roxtar's suspension theories are wrong.

But yeah. What jm2e said. Generic Chinese carbon is a risky buy.

[rideit]

Do we all agree that the SuperD format was a bit silly?

[toast2266]

Do we all agree that the SuperD format was a bit silly?

I dunno. I've done a couple of super d races that were pretty fun.

[Conundrum]

I thought Enduro was the new name for Super D because manufacturers ran out of reasons to sell bikes.

[simple]

Do we all agree that the SuperD format was a bit silly?

Absolutely not. I hate running and the lemans start was one of the best things about it. Sketchy passes was great. Watching Brian Lopes cut the course was not.

[bagtagley]

Depends where you live. Super D here was just a return to technical XC racing with maybe a little extra descending added.

[El Chupacabra]

Well, I just flew at it and got it apart. The pressure stick is fuct. A new one costs 75% of the whole post so I think it's going in the trash.

Any comment on Brand X from chain reaction?

The Brand X droppers are rebranded Trans X posts, some of which are also sold as PNW. They're good. I bought two, Mrs C using one still (3 years now), friend bought one at my suggestion and his works fine too.

Be sure you are getting the 1X type remote with the post, some of them used to ship with a left shifter compatible remote.

[El Chupacabra]

^^^ Sprockets doesn't agree about anything. We can't agree on which chain lube to use, we can't agree on what length cranks to use, we can't agree about which tires are worth buying, and we can't even agree if the new Nevegals will kill you.

Literally the only thing I've ever seen this forum agree on is that Roxtar's suspension theories are wrong.

But yeah. What jm2e said. Generic Chinese carbon is a risky buy.

I actually share Roxtar's thoughts on Horst link bikes. (Ducking...)

I haven't ridden any Horst bikes since older Specialized, at least 10 years ago now. The mushiness and wallowing on those, and my hatred for Specialized, coupled with how good at climbing all the two-short-link bikes I've had were, pretty much turned me off to all Horst bikes.

If all suspension designs work pretty well now, then I'm not missing anything by continuing to avoid Horst bikes, right?

No matter what, I'm still never buying a Specialized.

[rideit]

This is timely for us.

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gea...rm-a-bike-has/

[gravitylover]

^^^ Sprockets doesn't agree about anything. We can't agree on which chain lube to use, we can't agree on what length cranks to use, we can't agree about which tires are worth buying, and we can't even agree if the new Nevegals will kill you.

Use the lube the lubes your chain.
Something between 165 and 175 is perfect. Use it.
Tires are the things on your bike that make contact with the dirt. Just ride and work with what ya got at the moment.
Of course they will.

[jono]

I actually share Roxtar's thoughts on Horst link bikes. (Ducking...)

I haven't ridden any Horst bikes since older Specialized, at least 10 years ago now. The mushiness and wallowing on those, and my hatred for Specialized, coupled with how good at climbing all the two-short-link bikes I've had were, pretty much turned me off to all Horst bikes.

If all suspension designs work pretty well now, then I'm not missing anything by continuing to avoid Horst bikes, right?

No matter what, I'm still never buying a Specialized.

Specialized proves the point: any of them can be done wrong just as most can be done right. They did it so wrong for so long that we've suffered for a solid decade due to their marketing dollars.

It's not about which links are long and short, it's about setting the anti-squat right. And a single-pivot can do that just fine, too. Apart from minor nuances in other areas (some of which are pretty fundamental compromises anyway) most bike makers know how to do that these days. Chinese DTC brands maybe excepted.

[grskier]

I dunno. I've done a couple of super d races that were pretty fun.

silly fun?

[toast2266]

I actually share Roxtar's thoughts on Horst link bikes. (Ducking...)

I haven't ridden any Horst bikes since older Specialized, at least 10 years ago now. The mushiness and wallowing on those, and my hatred for Specialized, coupled with how good at climbing all the two-short-link bikes I've had were, pretty much turned me off to all Horst bikes.

If all suspension designs work pretty well now, then I'm not missing anything by continuing to avoid Horst bikes, right?

No matter what, I'm still never buying a Specialized.

What jono said. I think everyone pretty much agrees that the specialized bikes from 10 years ago were a mushy horrible mess. But none of that is inherent to the horst link design. It's just because specialized designed a bike with ~75% anti-squat, which unsurprisingly peddled terribly. A VPP or DW bike with 75% anti-squat would also pedal terribly.

But getting back to something we can disagree on: I think Specialized has the best engineering of any bike on the market these days. You can (and should) hate the brand for all of the obvious reasons, but their current crop of bikes are designed better and built better than anything else I've seen.

[Roxtar]

Specialized proves the point: any of them can be done wrong just as most can be done right. They did it so wrong for so long that we've suffered for a solid decade due to their marketing dollars.

Specialized, with all their resources, had more time on horst links than the rest of the industry put together and they couldn't stop them from bobbing. Weird ass rear shock systems, different size links, different link arrangements, you name it. They tried everything.
It actually took accidentally stumbling on a design to get a better pedaling product.

Have there been many things influencing the betterness of current bikes? Of course. Yes, 1xs, geometry, shock evolution... all have a contribution. but to say newer suspension designs have nothing to add is simply silly.
You want to get into suspension theory, insisting it's all the same as long as one aspect remains constant?
Seriously?
And your engineering degrees come from where? Companies have been paying you to design suspension systems for how long?

No, I'm admittedly not a suspension designer. My experience is more real world.
In looking for a new long travel 29er, I rode a Sentinal, a Sight (and even a friend's Optic), and a Process. They were all good bikes and great on the DH but none of them peddled on flat trails like the Ripmo, Offering, or Switchblade.
I suppose that could be coincidence.
Did marketing make those differences?

Believe what you want.

[cydwhit]

And your engineering degrees come from where? Companies have been paying you to design suspension systems for how long?
.

The points people in this thread are making against you are based on engineering. Antisquat, anti-rise, etc are quantifiable traits that can be analyzed mathematically and expressed visually with graphs. They are objective properties of the bike. Engineers (generally) deal in objectivity quantifiable data.

You on the other hand resort to "I rode these bikes and they felt different, which is qualitative data that needs to come with tons of disclaimers to account for other factors including, but not limited to: the geometry of the bikes in question, tire choice, tire pressure, shock tune, shock pressure, trail type, your own fitness, what you ate for breakfast, what you spouted on the internet the night before, etc.

You can argue that in your experience the dual link bikes you've ridden felt more efficient than the Horst link bikes you've ridden. But you cannot derive from that, with any level of believability, statements like "All Horst link bikes are inefficient peddlers." Real engineers have proven otherwise. Real race results have proven otherwise. Shit, Pinkbike strapping a heart rate monitor to a Monster-Energy-powered, problematic-spandex-wearing, one-eyed-dog-owning editor has proven otherwise. You're just wrong.

[simple]

As soon as he said AMP research you should know he's gonna be a salty old dog.

[HAB]

Specialized, with all their resources, had more time on horst links than the rest of the industry put together and they couldn't stop them from bobbing. Weird ass rear shock systems, different size links, different link arrangements, you name it. They tried everything.

No, they didn't, at least not until recently. Specifically, they didn't just design in more anti-squat. Just like everybody in this thread has been saying. Their whole spin on it was that the suspension remained active under pedalling, for lots of grip and compliance, which was true. It just also pedaled like ass. Again, 100% down to how they chose to tune it, and nothing to do with it being a Horst link, generally.

And your engineering degrees come from where?

Harvey Mudd College, since you asked.

[Fred Pabst]

Shortening XT hydro brake lines? So I am doing a brake upgrade to the new XT four pistons and will be doing a brake line mod. I've watched the youtube vid and it looks super easy. I googled up and found a source for the olive and barb parts I'll need. One source gives the option of the barb being stainless steel or brass. Price is only $4 per but is one more preferred? More than likely it doesn't make one bit of difference. But you never know it's the little things sometimes.

[HAB]

Shortening XT hydro brake lines? So I am doing a brake upgrade to the new XT four pistons and will be doing a brake line mod. I've watched the youtube vid and it looks super easy. I googled up and found a source for the olive and barb parts I'll need. One source gives the option of the barb being stainless steel or brass. Price is only $4 per but is one more preferred? More than likely it doesn't make one bit of difference. But you never know it's the little things sometimes.

A while back Shimano changed the ID of their hoses, and changed the barb material so there was a visual difference between the two. The stainless ones are the newer version.

Which generation brake are we talking?

[jono]

Specialized, with all their resources, had more time on horst links than the rest of the industry put together and they couldn't stop them from bobbing. Weird ass rear shock systems, different size links, different link arrangements, you name it. They tried everything.
It actually took accidentally stumbling on a design to get a better pedaling product.

Have there been many things influencing the betterness of current bikes? Of course. Yes, 1xs, geometry, shock evolution... all have a contribution. but to say newer suspension designs have nothing to add is simply silly.
You want to get into suspension theory, insisting it's all the same as long as one aspect remains constant?
Seriously?
And your engineering degrees come from where? Companies have been paying you to design suspension systems for how long?

No, I'm admittedly not a suspension designer. My experience is more real world.
In looking for a new long travel 29er, I rode a Sentinal, a Sight (and even a friend's Optic), and a Process. They were all good bikes and great on the DH but none of them peddled on flat trails like the Ripmo, Offering, or Switchblade.
I suppose that could be coincidence.
Did marketing make those differences?

Believe what you want.

Lulz. My BSME comes from an ABET-accredited school. My senior project was a design of a suspension system. But not everyone who took ME took kinematics, it's typically a 400- or 500-level course. I once met a new BSME grad from Cal Poly Pomona who didn't know the term. So it's a bit of a specialization. But it's not rocket science, it's a well-understood field. I've lost track of how many bikes I've ridden in the last 10 years. I'll bet toast has, too.

Specialized tried everything except what works: 100% anti-squat and pointing the chain at the wheel's instant center of zero velocity WRT the frame at the point of sag. Their bikes needed a certain look and they stuck with it for marketing. Because fuck those guys.

This seems complex and it is if you're not using the tools often, but it's not black magic.

[dfinn]

Will the saint/zee pads fit the new shimano 4 piston calipers? I've bot a bunch of of those pads but it doesn't look like they are going to work with these new brakes.

[toast2266]

I'm not sure even a Weagle designed dual link bike is going to pedal well enough to climb out of the hole Roxtar has dug himself into.