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Thread: Ask the experts
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04-21-2022, 04:13 PM #7451
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04-21-2022, 04:48 PM #7452
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04-21-2022, 04:51 PM #7453
Experts: I have a dangerous propensity to overestimate my skills on the bike and the only reason I haven't embedded my teeth in a tree trunk is dumb luck. I've been thinking of getting a FF helmet as a more reliable way to keep said teeth in my mouth.
I don't race enduro, ride DH/park, or jump (and don't have much of a desire to learn), and I ride a fair amount of mellow stuff. The FF would be something I'd only use on rowdier days (for the UT crowd we'll say stuff like Brighton, Lake Mountains, the occasional Moab or St George angry trails). I pedal everywhere so I think a full DF helmet would be too much.
I've been looking at the crop of lightweight enduro FF which are all the rage this day. Tried a Smith Mainline, Fox Proframe, and IXS Trigger today. They all fit well enough although nothing felt super comfy, something I'll chalk up to never having worn a FF. MIPS in all of them, relatively similar weight and prices. The Smith was the beefiest, didn't like the D-ring buckle and I've read it squeaks like a trapped mouse. The Fox looks great but fit was the weirdest despite some faffing with the pads. Had some spots rubbing the MIPS layer on my forehead and people gripe about the fixed visor on that one. The IXS was lightest and most adjustable (it has the same adjustment system as most half-lids) which would be ideal on paper but it did have more pressure points overall. It's also the most expensive.
Any experience with these models, or other ones I should be looking at? Didn't consider anything with a removable chin bar as I guarantee I'd never take the thing on/off, I'd rather have 2 dedicated helmets. Weight is not the biggest concern, fit and ventilation are (I run way hot and UT isn't exactly a temperate climate these days). I have a generic melon, 58 cm, roundish, no horns or random protrusions."Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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04-21-2022, 05:08 PM #7454
I am going to try a POC Otocon this year, I believe it will be over a pound lighter than my Giro Switchblade, that is HUGE savings for a helmet. (The Equivalent Troy Lee is even lighter)
(Curiously, it has been scrubbed from the POC website, so I dunno what’s up with that)
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...with-tech.htmlForum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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04-21-2022, 05:24 PM #7455Registered User
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I've got a Leatt MTB 4.0 V21 that I like. I use it primarily for lift served laps, but I have taken it pedaling too. I don't love pedaling with it on, but that's a FF issue more than anything else. I think it's worth consideration if you can find one to try on.
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04-21-2022, 05:34 PM #7456
I’ve been happy with my Kali Invader 2.0. Don’t buy the 1.0, the retention system was shit, but the new one is pretty nice. Very light, and comfy enough that I can stand to wear it for hours including pedaling uphill.
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04-21-2022, 06:02 PM #7457
TLD Stage is wicked light. I got one for the kiddo. Also wicked expensive.
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04-21-2022, 08:15 PM #7458Registered User
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- Feb 2014
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- NorCal coast
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I really like my TLD Stage. On my second one (first I retired after going OTB into a tree). I live in coastal CA, so it's often warm but seldom desert hot, but humidity is always around 80%. I actually kind of prefer wearing the Stage on hot days because I just hang it off my handlebars while pedaling up fire roads, so my head can breath and the pads don't get soaked with sweat.
I've had removable chinbar helmets before and found them a waste of time... they're heavier than either a normal half shell or a light FF, and strapping them to your backpack is a PITA. Just get 2 helmets, horses for courses etc.
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04-21-2022, 08:16 PM #7459Dad core
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- Dec 2006
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- Back in Seattle
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- 1,259
I have the invader as well. It is light and not a lot hotter than a half shell. The sizing is a bit weird and the l/xl is a bit big on my very oval head but wearing a sweatband it works.
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04-21-2022, 09:07 PM #7460
Ask the experts
I’ve had a Proframe for a couple years now. Love it. Wear it on just about anything that’s not urban or bike park. Would wear it for park, but I’ve got a proper DH lid.
It’s so well vented, it’s cooler than my TLD half shell.
The magnet chin strap is mint. I can take the helmet off/on with one hand on gravel stuff without stopping.
Pop out the cheek pads if I want it off my handlebar on big climbs.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsHowever many are in a shit ton.
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04-22-2022, 01:51 PM #7461
Anybody on here ever try to Octamouse inserts? The review on NSMB is glowing, but it's also the only review on the internet and I'd sorta like to hear another take before I buy expensive Spanish pool noodles.
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04-22-2022, 02:02 PM #7462
Never heard of them, but a friend of mine actually runs honest to gawd pool noodles, and swears by them.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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04-23-2022, 07:04 AM #7463one of those sickos
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- Oct 2005
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I saw no fewer than 3 new tire insert companies at Sea Otter. Apparently there's money to be made selling $.001 worth of foam in roughly a tire shape for $30 or more.
ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.
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04-23-2022, 07:58 AM #7464retired ed
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- 2,480
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04-23-2022, 07:59 AM #7465
I don't fuck around with helmets as they are the last place you want to skimp on anything.
Of those three helmets, only the Fox Proframe has a key feature for safety: dual density layers to better manage energy dissipation across potential crash speeds.
Great Helmets similar to Proframe
Leatt MTB Gravity 4.0
Kali Invader 2.0
TLD Stage
Consider convertible helmets!
Bell Super DH Spherical (I think this the safest light FF)
Leatt MTB Enduro 4.0 (very competitive with Bell Super)
Bell Super Air Spherical (lighter but less protective)
Sweet Arbitrator (heavier)
I like these convertibles as it is 2 helmets in one, and I can take the safety features of the enduro class helmet when I am just wanting a half-lid for trail riding, and carry the chinbar for enduro/self shuttle work. I have been using a Bell Super M2 MIPS forever and I am going to replace it now with either the Super DH or the MTB Enduro 4.0 which are in the mail.
Who makes the most protective helmets?
When I think of the companies that are innovating AND putting safety above everything else: 6D, Bell, Leatt, Kali, and Sweet. Yes POC is only about safety, but I don't see them innovating lately. Fox and TLD make great helmets, but I don't find them to be innovators. For rotational/shearing reduction, so many companies just throw in shear plane (yellow) MIPS, then put style first. I always laugh when I see a helmet that has MIPS and then has large/sharp stylized ridges or finlike structures that would catch and increase rotational forces. POC's signature smooth rounded shell helmet designs with nothing to catch? That is actually a safety feature! You want a helmet to slide, not catch!
The Ultimate Protection
There are many factors that contribute to safety, but the two biggest are a proper shear protection system and multiple foam densities to manage forces across a variety of impact speeds. Not having at least two densities is just inexcusable for any medium or high end helmet design. You have to be careful when researching because many companies are saying "two densities of foam!" but when you read the details you find out the second density layer is only on one small part of the helmet, often just on the chin piece! Having an EPP (multimpact) layer is nice to (instead of just EPS) but again some companies claim EPP and you find out its just a tiny layer coated on the chin piece. It is also worth noting that to manage impacts, ultimately you have to have distance over which deceleration occurs. It is simple physics that tells us that super low profile helmets just cannot work as well as a thicker helmet, if both are equally well designed.
Shear forces matter too... helmets have to be engineered for by providing deceleration distance along the rotation. A two layer rotating shear reduction system, like MIPS originally designed (and implemented with POC over a decade ago), is the safest shear mitigating concussion prevention prevention system. Today, the only helmets with similarly designed rotational protection are from 6D, Bell, and Giro. Sheer plane (yellow) MIPS so common in helmets is just cheaper and easier to engineer into a helmet, and I think that is where these elastomer systems (Turbine, Spin, LDL, etc) have come in as at-least-as-good as they likely offer similar shear relief to yellow MIPS while adding what is basically an extra foam density layer serving as low-speed multi-impact protection. The Bontrager secret sauce looks promising, but it's only in half shells.
Consequently, the safest helmets ever made for DH biking was probably a tie between the 6D ATB-1 (proprietary superior spherical+elastomer) and POC Cortex DH (Spherical) MIPS (discontinued, owned 3). Advanced multidensity foam layering and energy dissipation is key, and both that POC and 6D include it, and that huge consideration also went into it with my second place award: a tie between the Kali Shiva Carbon 2.0 (innovative multidensity foam construction + LDL) and the Leatt MTB Gravity 8.0 (quad density foam + Turbine, I use this now).Last edited by Summit; 04-28-2022 at 11:08 AM.
Originally Posted by blurred
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04-23-2022, 08:32 AM #7466
For 1-bike-to-do-it-all types:
I've been running heavier duty carbon wheels and Exo+ front DD rear tires with superlight foam inserts and my Park - Enduro - AM - Trail do-it-all.
Well the new bike came with AL enduro wheels. So do I buy 33mm Enduro carbon wheels to do it all? Or 30mm AM carbon wheels with Exo/Exo+ for Enduro/Trail and run DD/DH on the Al rims for park, just dealing with the switch-out and cassette swap?Originally Posted by blurred
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04-23-2022, 08:45 AM #7467
I'm a fan of the two wheel system. Swapping out doesn't take more than an hour and the tires can last a whole season
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04-23-2022, 08:48 AM #7468
^ I'd go for a 30mm AM Carbon for pedaling with EXO+, and a ALU Park set wit DD/DH.
You can always pull dents out of the AL wheels or run tubes in the Park wheels if you dent them up too bad.
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04-23-2022, 09:00 AM #7469
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04-23-2022, 09:53 AM #7470Not a skibum
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- Aug 2002
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- PA
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Wow, wtf is this thing?!? Popped up in my local FB marketplace. Backwards fork and Mtn version of those Look roadies w stem behind top-tube!!
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04-23-2022, 10:03 AM #7471
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04-23-2022, 10:05 AM #7472Not a skibum
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- PA
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Funny you mention that, for sale locally used for the same low $200 price tag haha death trap!!
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04-23-2022, 10:11 AM #7473
That is one of the dumbest things I've seen, reverse standover wtf? I can't imagine you could even ride it with the fork backwards like that, but the frame "design" really takes the cake
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04-23-2022, 10:43 AM #7474Registered User
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- Mar 2008
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- northern BC
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- 30,885
pointless frame/ top tube design for a mtnbike but its just a cheap bike that someone put together wrong, the kid in receiving needs to loosen stem and rotate the fork 180 degree clockwise
Last edited by XXX-er; 04-23-2022 at 12:07 PM.
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-23-2022, 10:51 AM #7475
Dead giveaway that fork is on backwards is the caliper being on the front side of the rotor. That's bad news bears if you grab a handful of brake.
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