Ask the experts

[unitofstuff]

Appreciate the input and the sanity check. The way my dumbass lizard brain works is if I think about a good contingency plan/safety move like wearing a FF for lift served riding and DON'T do it, then I've jinxed myself to eat a rock the next time I go. I stopped by BC after work and picked one up, but I also ordered one I suspect I'll like more. Easy enough to just return the second place helmet.

I guess I was probably out of touch, but between all bikes getting so much faster, e-bikes, and helmets getting so much better, full face helmets seem way more common than I remembered or assumed.

[unitofstuff]

Another comment is the physics of it:
Impact energy does not increase linearly with incremental increases in speed, it increases parabolically.
The difference between the same crash mechanism at 10 vs 20 mph is not double, it can be 4 times the energy dissipation through your bones (e.g., jaw, face, orbital socket, whatever). Kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared.
Modern trail full faces are so light and breathable, the biggest penalty is that you have to lift your helmet to drink from a bottle, or use a hydration hose. Weight and heat are not practically noticeable penalties anymore.

Between BMX as a teenager and a solid amount of skiing, I'm pretty decent at falling down gracefully enough to not get hurt. What really worries me is eating shit while I'm going fast enough that I can't react fast enough to break my fall with something other than my face. I think I'm hitting those speeds on the lift served stuff.

Luckily, I just spray my bottle somewhere at my mouth like an animal anyway so I can probably get around the drinking thing.

[sfotex]

At what point do you consider it justified to go to a full face helmet?

Out of curiosity, I asked a couple friends and they surprised me by how low their bar was for when they'd want to start wearing one. I've been riding some lift served recently (Deer Valley), not hitting jump lines or doing anything hardcore. I don't feel underprotected in a good half shell, but a lot of people have said that shortly before some emergency dental reconstruction.

My son has been riding some lift serve this year at Dear Valley - we both got FF helmets for it. They're so light, comfy, and well ventilated now there's no reason not to run one at DV.. He has a POC race and I have a Smith Mainline. Heck, there's soccer moms riding there with full faces and enduro bikes....

That said, I wear my trail lid most of the time, but I have a a thing for riding as much vert as I can in the heat with no shade on a bike with 115mm travel, so...

If your a smallish medium size head I have a 100% Trajecta I got at the spring sale that didn't fit me that well, new in the box if you want to try it on....

[SchralphMacchio]

Lift serve increases not only the speed but the total duration for which you are exposed because you can slam so much vert in just a couple of hours - it’s much much more total exposure time than van/truck shuttling! So it’s increased consequences AND increased probability, even if you aren’t sending the biggest features or fastest trails.

I often wonder about guys like Yoann and Remi doing what they do in half shells. I suppose at that level, preventing mistakes by increasing visibility and reducing weight are important, but man the consequences are so dang high. Then again, once you factor in skill, they are less probable to eat shit on that kind of thing than I am to eat shit on Una Moss at Whistler?

Anyways, rubber side down and face side up, happy trails!

[mcski]

Did you see Yoannn’s crash last week? He might just upgrade the helmet now

[SchralphMacchio]

No I’ve been off IG for months, but now I need to see it!

[SchralphMacchio]

Omg that was almost a snuff film. I’m glad he’s still with us and is on the mend.

[Boissal]

Between BMX as a teenager and a solid amount of skiing, I'm pretty decent at falling down gracefully enough to not get hurt. What really worries me is eating shit while I'm going fast enough that I can't react fast enough to break my fall with something other than my face. I think I'm hitting those speeds on the lift served stuff.

I've always thought I knew how to fall well, mainly because of skiing and a lot of luck on the bike. I proved myself wrong a bunch of times in the past 4 years though, and not in the situation you're describing. Turns out it doesn't take much speed to have things come at you fast enough that you just can't react. Washing out the front wheel at any speed will put your head really close to the ground with 0 time to do anything about it, other than break a wrist if you're lucky. It probably means the full face should come out all the time, even for XC riding, however annoying that would be. Using it every time the enduro bike comes out seems like a good rule. Which I unfortunately don't follow. Every time I've hit my head it's been on the trail bike...

Omg that was almost a snuff film. I’m glad he’s still with us and is on the mend.

The way he slides across the bridge is so sickening. You can tell the lights were out a microsecond after his head bounced off. He posted pics of his helmet, it's SMASHED. Dude's so lucky to walk away from that one with his brain still inside his head.

[SchralphMacchio]

It probably means the full face should come out all the time, even for XC riding, however annoying that would be. Using it every time the enduro bike comes out seems like a good rule. Which I unfortunately don't follow. Every time I've hit my head it's been on the trail bike...

Read the full story in my Anti Rant thread about how I almost killed myself on a somewhat XC long distance big vert ride. Check out Kali Invader, IXS Trigger, Bell Super Air as trail FF options that breathe super well. I have zero complaints about my Invader, absolutely love it and am thankful to have a trail FF on nearly all the time.

The way he slides across the bridge is so sickening. You can tell the lights were out a microsecond after his head bounced off. He posted pics of his helmet, it's SMASHED. Dude's so lucky to walk away from that one with his brain still inside his head.

Did you read his full comments? His body kept sliding off the rocks and into the river but he cut off the video as he said it was too graphic. Brain damage and going into a river is using multiple of his nine lives. Plus it’s not like he hasn’t had other mega close calls before too. He wears a FF to race or race practice, but not to do mega exposed steep features on granite that has practically infinite modulus and zero impact absorption. I hope he changes his mindset, seems like a cool and nice dude.

[Boissal]

Read the full story in my Anti Rant thread about how I almost killed myself on a somewhat XC long distance big vert ride. Check out Kali Invader, IXS Trigger, Bell Super Air as trail FF options that breathe super well. I have zero complaints about my Invader, absolutely love it and am thankful to have a trail FF on nearly all the time.

Did you read his full comments? His body kept sliding off the rocks and into the river but he cut off the video as he said it was too graphic. Brain damage and going into a river is using multiple of his nine lives. Plus it’s not like he hasn’t had other mega close calls before too. He wears a FF to race or race practice, but not to do mega exposed steep features on granite that has practically infinite modulus and zero impact absorption. I hope he changes his mindset, seems like a cool and nice dude.

I read your story in the other thread, scary!
Re: Yoann, didn't realize he had slid into the water on top of the crash. He, Remi, Steve, the shit they do without wearing medieval armor is nuts. Remi has an entire video about the full face restricting his field of view and preventing him from riding well. Guess when you have that level of mastery of the bike maybe it makes sense? Until it doesn't that is...

[Meconium]

Any full-face convertible that will release if pulled away from face? My mind keeps thinking that tree branches or whatever could get hung up and brake you neck

[SchralphMacchio]

Remi has an entire video about the full face restricting his field of view and preventing him from riding well. Guess when you have that level of mastery of the bike maybe it makes sense? Until it doesn't that is...

I didn’t watch his video. But that sounds like only working the probability side of the equation without reviewing the consequence side, and not analyzing how the total exposure compares for each scenario. Plus different models of FF helmets have different chinbar geometry, I can actually see through the mouth hole of my Invader chinbar, and I’m not sure if it’s Leatt or Troy Lee that tend to have a slightly lower chinbar.

[XXX-er]

I had the front wheel of my moto cross bike run over my helmet to leave a big knobby print, the expanded foam in the chin was crushed from 1" to 1/2" my neck and back were fucked but no damage to face or dental

so I was pretty happy to have been rocking the FF and I can tell you they work

[Andeh]

I've owned both half shells and "enduro" (light/breathable) full faces for a long time now, but ever since I got an ebike I committed to myself (and my family) that when riding it I would default to riding with the full face. Since I'm working less hard and the newer ones breathe so well, there's not really much of a penalty for doing it for a much greater peace of mind. I now wear it so often that when I ride my pedal bike, I feel uncomfortable and less confident because I don't have the feeling of the full face. So I can kind of understand what Remi was saying where he got used to wearing a half shell so much that when he wore his full face, it messed with his mind. He definitely seems to be a guy who's on the verge of overthinking things (I'm like that too).

Last year I did get a full DH rated full face for the few days per year I ride at a bike park. Like the rationale for always wearing the light FF while ebiking, when riding lifts, you're riding much more in a single day than you usually would (even compared to ebiking) - 2x-3x more. You're probably more fatigued by the end, the features are probably bigger, etc. The chance of an incident on that single day is just that much higher, so why not have a bit more protection? That said, I've tried wearing that same DH FF while ebiking and can't stand it. It's hot, it muffles sound a lot, and the D-ring makes taking it on and off a pain in the butt.

[singlesline]

but a lot of people have said that shortly before some emergency dental reconstruction.

I said I was waiting for a "good deal" since I don't really ride bike parks often...turns out paying full price for a full face would have been a lot cheaper than oral surgery.


Not to say I won't still do incongruent things like this Saturday I rode chairs and wore the full face, then on Sunday evening I pedaled up the same resort on my XC bike in a half-lid and rode the exact same trails down (I took it easier, but its not like I kept the bike on the ground)...
but generally I've been trying to make myself wear the FF anytime I'm leaving the ground a lot or riding anything with notable features. Especially if it comes with a road climb that I am comfortable doing with the helmet off.

I should try that Kali Invader or some other light/breathable FF. I tried the Bell Super Air R and liked the convertible setup and venting, but couldn't get a fit I felt comfortable with.

[unitofstuff]

My son has been riding some lift serve this year at Dear Valley - we both got FF helmets for it. They're so light, comfy, and well ventilated now there's no reason not to run one at DV.. He has a POC race and I have a Smith Mainline. Heck, there's soccer moms riding there with full faces and enduro bikes....

That said, I wear my trail lid most of the time, but I have a a thing for riding as much vert as I can in the heat with no shade on a bike with 115mm travel, so...

If your a smallish medium size head I have a 100% Trajecta I got at the spring sale that didn't fit me that well, new in the box if you want to try it on....

Funny enough, I have a small Trajecta sitting on my desk right now. Maybe great minds do think alike? I absolutely appreciate the offer though

I do have a Spec Gambit in the mail that I'm guessing I will like more, but I guess we'll see.

[Duffman]

Switched the drivetrain on the groms 24 in bike over to Deore 11 sp 11-42 from the 8 speed it came with , all working well .... But realized I installed the Shimano quick link with the arrow facing the wrong direction. FML. What to do? Technically as these are single use should I leave it alone, undo it and risk reconnecting it correct direction, or get a new one.

[toast2266]

Switched the drivetrain on the groms 24 in bike over to Deore 11 sp 11-42 from the 8 speed it came with , all working well .... But realized I installed the Shimano quick link with the arrow facing the wrong direction. FML. What to do? Technically as these are single use should I leave it alone, undo it and risk reconnecting it correct direction, or get a new one.

Reconnect and reuse. It'll be fine.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[rideit]

I reconnect those things a dozen times in their lifetime, never had a problem.
They just want you to buy more.

[Dromond]

He wears a FF to race or race practice, but not to do mega exposed steep features on granite that has practically infinite modulus and zero impact absorption. I hope he changes his mindset, seems like a cool and nice dude.

Please explain modulus. I think it means the rock is very hard.

Around me I see that the vast majority of people with FF helmets pedaling up are one bikes. The protection is cool but what about fogging your eyewear all the time? Newer helmets too breathable for that?

[SchralphMacchio]

Please explain modulus. I think it means the rock is very hard.

Engineering term that is used to model out how much a material is expected to compress, bend, or stretch under a given load. Low modulus materials are soft, high modulus materials are hard.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Are there any chest HR straps that actually work? I've had two garmins and a wahoo and they all shit the bed fairly quickly.

[VTskibum]

Are you extra sweaty? I'm on year 6 of my Wahoo, admittedly pretty lucky from what I hear. Probably 6th battery and 2nd strap, but thing still works.

Another friend said that Polars are his favorite after going through the same struggle. YMMV

[grskier]

Engineering term that is used to model out how much a material is expected to compress, bend, or stretch under a given load. Low modulus materials are soft, high modulus materials are hard.

This is a great synopsis.

Here is one from a google search
Modulus of Elasticity
What is Modulus of Elasticity?
Modulus of Elasticity, also known as Elastic Modulus or simply Modulus, is the measurement of a material's elasticity. Elastic modulus quantifies a material's resistance to non-permanent, or elastic, deformation. When under stress, materials will first exhibit elastic properties: the stress causes them to deform, but the material will return to its previous state after the stress is removed. After passing through the elastic region and through their yield point, materials enter a plastic region, where they exhibit permanent deformation even after the tensile stress is removed.

Granite:
The elastic modulus varied from 11.1 GPa to 63.8 GPa.

Wood: Spruce pine: 6.89 GPa,

I'm guessing granite, like those boulders to be on the very high end of the range above. The bridge/wood lower as it'll bounce a bit before you exercise that trait of the material.

[BigHerm]

Was just shopping chest straps. DCRainmaker currently recommends Polar H10 or H9.