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  1. #76
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    Sep 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Interesting. There are those videos on GCN where they did a power test, and found that flats generated essentially the same power as clipless. Video and some pseudo-science truthiness here: https://pedalinginnovations.com/does...ipless-pedals/

    My anecdotal experience is that I am faster AND became a better rider on flats.

    Schralphy Macchio is lending me some XT trails, and I ordered those Nukeproofs. Will do a comparo and report back.
    I've seen that test, and I reject it for a number of reasons, and by their own admission it wasn't a scientific test. On the road or trail we aren't trying to measure pure power in a vacuum.

    The most common way to waste energy while pedaling is to stomp down on the pedals too hard - in other words, continuing to push down once the pedal is at it furthest down position. Any energy delivered to the pedals there gets wasted as foot/shoe compression, frame/BB torque, and heat. It doesn't help you go faster. That's why pro road riders are fixated on pedaling circles - it's just shorthand for not wasting energy at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

    A rider trained with tons of miles over years should have a really smooth pedal stroke, and that can help them be smooth in flats. I have a buddy who's a top 5 american triathlete who showed up at a race without his bike shoes. Rode the 100 mile leg barefoot on clipless pedals. Got 2nd or 3rd in the race (though he couldn't walk for a week). Fuck, I can hop on the "pub" bike drunk off my ass and pedal the smoothest strokes you could want on flats, because I spent an enormous amount of time training my body to do that. But most people can't, and even if you can, it's still not as smooth. (looks like the dude in the test, in a lab, was trained enough to pedal smooth) And when you add in the bumpness and randomness of a mtn bike trail, almost noone can be really efficient using flats. In fact, I'd say noone, especially over technical terrain.

    But with clipless, I can keep turning circles while bouncing all over the damn place, because I don't have to waste energy staying connected to the pedals. I can also keep hammering rather than trying to control my bike.

    In fact, if you know how to do this, think about how you bunnyhop on flats - you kind of twist your foot into the pedal and push down and back to stay connected. That uses energy, and that's the same energy you use to stay connected on flat technical trails using flat pedals.

    Also, there's a lot of focus lately on how pulling up on the pedals isn't really done normally and uses more energy than pushing down - all true. But if you are needing seated power for a technical uphill section, I guarantee you can generate more power adding the pull to your stroke, and if you are really on the edge of too tired, and need a little more, accessing a set of muscles that are less fatigued (the upstroke) can get you that little extra you need to stay in touch with the group, etc.

    I've ridden an enormous number of miles both on flats and in clipless (hell, and in clips/straps, which some say are actually the most efficient because they eliminate shoe stretch) and I've done the same rides both ways enough to know how much faster I am in clipless. Those anecdotes are at least as scientific as that test.

    My opinion, fwiw.

    Oh yeah, forgot to add: believe that a non-scientific study with no cohort that is put on the internet by a manufacturer of flat pedals proves that flats are as efficient as clipless AT YOUR OWN RISK. Heh. They even titled it "Does this video prove flats are as efficient as clipless?" Ha. A question. Read - we know this can be proven false so if we just present it as a video and a question then we can't get sued but people that want to ride flats will have the ammunition they need to justify their purchase.

  2. #77
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Schralphy Macchio is lending me some XT trails, and I ordered those Nukeproofs. Will do a comparo and report back.
    Too embarrassed on my behalf to admit these are blingy XTR trail 9020’s that needlessly cost wayyy more than the XTs?

    Actually the new 9120 XTR Trails available now look like they have a slightly wider contact area than the ones I’m lending you. For reference.

    They’ll be in the mail today.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  3. #78
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    Too embarrassed on my behalf to admit these are blingy XTR trail 9020’s that needlessly cost wayyy more than the XTs?

    Actually the new 9120 XTR Trails available now look like they have a slightly wider contact area than the ones I’m lending you. For reference.

    They’ll be in the mail today.
    Ha, I didn't know there was a difference. Shimano has the most ridiculous naming conventions. Thank you sir, for I was lost, but now am riding clipless. Almost, anyway.

    And yeah, Beece, it's total pseudo-science. Great comments. I'm far from pro, and appreciate knowledge from those who know.

  4. #79
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Supposedly the main difference between XT and XTR isn't weight, but feel and precision machining/assembly.

    The XTR gives such a solid "click" engagement feeling when I step in. Have spent plenty of air time in them and skimming over chunder as well. Our rocks up here aren't as big as those in South Lake Tahoe, but we do have some pretty rough shale sections and lots of old school waterbar stepdowns and sketchy hairpin switchbacks with stepdowns, and these pedals have been great. And of course I loved them for climbing up over techy chunk sections back at Tamarancho, Annadel, and Napa Skyline.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  5. #80
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    Nov 2007
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    4,074
    Vote for ATACs here. Like the float; sheds mud. Had one pair about 15 years on my old Titus. If it ain’t broke...

  6. #81
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    Jan 2009
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    Park City
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    3,148
    When Thule bought me a bike I got the mallet E11’s. They have been great pedals. Super pricey....


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    here is a welgo pedal that has been altered you can see the lower jaw of the pedal with a black X where material has been removed with a grinding stone to approximate the float of a Shimano SPD

    the welgos look the same as a Shimano SPD but the float is different and the cleats are different which you will realize when you clip them in to a real shimano pedal

    yeah they are way cheap at 20$ but so are shimano at 50 ish CAN , i would give the welgo a pass

    I just posted this to show what is possible

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    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #83
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    Jun 2006
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    Couloirfornia
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    Meter dude, I want to trade pedals for a ride so can feel the difference between XT and XTR (if noticeable). I'm curious.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  9. #84
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    northern BC
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    I think you^^ will find no difference in how a cheap Shimano SPD feels compared to a expensive Shimano SPD, the cheap one will still last forever, won't have as nice feeling bearings and will weight more but functionally no difference
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #85
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    I’ve had both the XTs and the XTRs. The XTRs are noticeably more solid. However my XTs were stolen so I couldn’t do a side by side.

    But meter and lightranger will be able to!
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  11. #86
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    For shimano pedal people, look at the pd-mx70. It's their bmx pedal, but the local shimano rep (who's a ripper) swears by them. There's a little extra plate under the cleat that keeps the cleat from rolling into a release.

  12. #87
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    Nov 2009
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    CA
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    https://blisterreview.com/gear-101/w...pedals-and-why

    It's like they knew what I wanted and then wrote an article. Nice.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,043
    Crankbrothers fans always struck me as a little too culty

    "Yeah they sell rebuild kits! And if you do regular maintenance on them they last a long time. I mean sometimes they fail spectacularly but then you just buy a new pair and more maintenance and replacement parts and keep going. They shed mud so well! And they have float! No other pedal sheds mud or has float."

    One of those blister reviewers went from flats to CB and then SPD and didn't like the locked in feeling of SPD. No shit - everyone who starts out going from flats to clipped in feels tense about the locked in feeling at first. The locked in feeling is a feature.

    I'm sure CB eggbeaters are perfect for a smaller subset of people (need max float / ride in Dagobah swamp mud). I guess I just get annoyed at people raving about how easy it is to rebuild them and do maintenance on them - why would I want a pedal that needs that done and even then will explode into uselessness on occasion? Shimano, Time, xpedo, wellgo - so many other better options for clipping in.
    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    If I took a principled stand on every aspect of my life, I'd be too busy to live it.

  14. #89
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    Nov 2005
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    Land of Brine Shrimp and Magic Underwear
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    Said it before but TIMEs are just so consistent and reliable. Nice float, great retention, consistent release. Had a couple pairs for over 20 years and they perform like new. The MX4-MX12 line have effective composite platforms that take a beating, are lightweight, and actually help with support as well as getting through the gnar if you find yourself unclipped. I quit doing maintenance on them years ago because you literally don’t have to do anything to them. Ever.

    Crankbro’s primary product IMO is marketing. Their engineering has always been shit, their products, disposable.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  15. #90
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    Mar 2007
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Hey, their folding bike multitool with chainbreaker I first bought 16 years ago has always been a very well engineered and built product!!!

    Also their founder Colin Esquibel started a cool wheel company called Spēd Precision. Great product.

    But I digress.

    /drift
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
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    1,132
    Quote Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot View Post
    I call it the "telemark effect" where making something senselessly harder, automatically makes them think that it is cooler.
    This is fucking gold...
    Yeah, Time FTW
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Boulder
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    1,020
    Didn't think it was possible, but my old ATAC Aliums seem to be dying? Lately my left pedal has been spontaneously ejecting my foot during hard upward pulls (up and over drops etc.) I believe the issue is limited to the left pedal and maybe only on 1 of the 2 sides.

    I've already tried a fresh pair of cleats, which seemed to help for <5 rides. Anybody experienced this issue with a TIME ATAC that wasn't caused by worn out cleats? Any way to fix? If not, what TIME pedals people are liking these days? Aliums look to be long gone. So far I've heard:

    MX8
    Speciale 8
    Also considering XT trails

  18. #93
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Didn't think it was possible, but my old ATAC Aliums seem to be dying? Lately my left pedal has been spontaneously ejecting my foot during hard upward pulls (up and over drops etc.) I believe the issue is limited to the left pedal and maybe only on 1 of the 2 sides.

    I've already tried a fresh pair of cleats, which seemed to help for <5 rides. Anybody experienced this issue with a TIME ATAC that wasn't caused by worn out cleats? Any way to fix? If not, what TIME pedals people are liking these days? Aliums look to be long gone. So far I've heard:

    MX8
    Speciale 8
    Also considering XT trails
    Check to see if the spring has broken - that's how my Time's (of all types) have always died. Usually the spring snaps where it wraps around the pin in the pedal body. The pedal still sorta works, but retention becomes terrible.

    I have both MX8's and Speciale 8's. They're similar, but I prefer the Speciale's. A little lighter, a bit lower profile, and (as of the last time I looked), they were easier to come by. And the Speciale 8's are pretty reasonably priced.

  19. #94
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
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    10,501
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Check to see if the spring has broken - that's how my Time's (of all types) have always died. Usually the spring snaps where it wraps around the pin in the pedal body. The pedal still sorta works, but retention becomes terrible.

    I have both MX8's and Speciale 8's. They're similar, but I prefer the Speciale's. A little lighter, a bit lower profile, and (as of the last time I looked), they were easier to come by. And the Speciale 8's are pretty reasonably priced.
    My Time's died from the bearing wearing out finally. Loved how consistent they were, I have saints now.. not sure if I'm in love with them.... once these cleats wear out I may sell the pedals and go back to time.

  20. #95
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    Nov 2005
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    Land of Brine Shrimp and Magic Underwear
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    You can check to see if the springs have worn into the pins they k
    Lever against. That’ll reduce the spring tension a bit. I remedied it by pushing the pin out enough to rotate it 180 degrees. I think it helped but YMMV.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  21. #96
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Land of Brine Shrimp and Magic Underwear
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    Those Speciale 8s do look sweet, might be ticket for my next set.

    Looks like MX8s are $130ish these days while the Speciale 8s are $125. I guess I got lucky when I got my MX8s for $85. It was a kinda sketch Euro site.

    My weight standard, XTR Trails, went on a diet and are now the same weight as the Speciale and lighter than the MX8s. I thought the Speciales were heavier for some reason.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    1,180
    You sure the arch isn't bent? Or worn? Check both sides. (that's the metal piece your cleat attaches to).

    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Didn't think it was possible, but my old ATAC Aliums seem to be dying? Lately my left pedal has been spontaneously ejecting my foot during hard upward pulls (up and over drops etc.) I believe the issue is limited to the left pedal and maybe only on 1 of the 2 sides.

    I've already tried a fresh pair of cleats, which seemed to help for <5 rides. Anybody experienced this issue with a TIME ATAC that wasn't caused by worn out cleats? Any way to fix? If not, what TIME pedals people are liking these days? Aliums look to be long gone. So far I've heard:

    MX8
    Speciale 8
    Also considering XT trails

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    On The Flipside
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Didn't think it was possible, but my old ATAC Aliums seem to be dying? Lately my left pedal has been spontaneously ejecting my foot during hard upward pulls (up and over drops etc.) I believe the issue is limited to the left pedal and maybe only on 1 of the 2 sides.

    I've already tried a fresh pair of cleats, which seemed to help for <5 rides. Anybody experienced this issue with a TIME ATAC that wasn't caused by worn out cleats? Any way to fix? If not, what TIME pedals people are liking these days? Aliums look to be long gone. So far I've heard:

    MX8
    Speciale 8
    Also considering XT trails
    I have a pair of XTR trails if your interested. PM me

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    208 State
    Posts
    2,020
    Time ATAC pedals are my go to from now on and have been for over 10 years now.
    I've tried CrankBrothers pedals (Candy SL's and Eggbeaters which subsequently broke quickly)

    If your Times are no longer retaining your cleat the spring is probably broken, it may not look like it, but take a close look at the two bars and there's probably a crack.

  25. #100
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    Sep 2018
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    1,180
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnjam View Post
    Time ATAC pedals are my go to from now on and have been for over 10 years now.
    I've tried CrankBrothers pedals (Candy SL's and Eggbeaters which subsequently broke quickly)

    If your Times are no longer retaining your cleat the spring is probably broken, it may not look like it, but take a close look at the two bars and there's probably a crack.
    Ok, to be clear, there's two separate parts here: the arch, which is the bar part that sticks up and engages with the cleat (2 per side per pedal) and the spring (coiled thing in the pedal body.) You're talking about the arch, which is also what I mentioned. Toast and others mentioned the spring. Both could cause this problem.

    Check both.

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