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  1. #26
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    11 fixtures? I have garage envy.

  2. #27
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    I am an electrician. Licensed since 1993. In the last ten years LEDs of varying quality have flooded our market. I have seen claims of 50,000 hours lifespan on new lamps, only to have call backs in a week. In most retrofit bulbs, it’s the basic resistors and other components that fail, along with soldering points. I think the led component usually is long lasting. Having said that, I think the tubes which bypass the fluorescent ballast are the best. First off, you delete a source of failure and of energy usage when you delete the ballast. Second, the ballast puts out around 600 volts. If you haven’t deleted the ballast, then some crappy component in your Chinese led tube is going to have to reduce that voltage to the usable voltage of the led ribbon in the tube. Cut out this potential failure point and just use 120v direct tubes!

    I have probably 20 4’ two tube lamps in my outbuilding. A good portion had bad ballasts and to A lesser extent, bad tubes. I bought some 2700k 120v tubes on eBay and have been really pleased with them. No flicker. No hum. Instant on and the color beats the harsh cool white color of the old fluorescent tubes.

  3. #28
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    Mar 2007
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    1,663
    Quote Originally Posted by JPaul View Post
    Can't recommend the simpleton version enough.

    I did 4 fixtures (8 bulbs) in the garage about 5 years ago using whatever was on the shelf at Costco (FEIT brand). Didn't touch any wires/ballasts/etc. -> just unscrew old/dying flourescents & screw in new LEDs.

    It's been awesome. Tons of better quality light, no flickering, they turn on much quicker, and all are still on/bright. Don't remember cost, but it was low enough that I was willing to try. Probably save energy, too.

    Cost savings in not managing flourescent tube inventory & spending time changing bulbs was well worth it (there was always at least 1 dead or dying) -> I would have replaced them all at least once by now if I didn't make the change.

    I say do it!
    Yea I did that to my fixture and the ballast failed and dripped molten stuff on the floor.

  4. #29
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    Apr 2012
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    348
    Quote Originally Posted by crackboy View Post
    Yea I did that to my fixture and the ballast failed and dripped molten stuff on the floor.
    I never said *you* should do it.


    FWIW, my fixtures were about 8 years old when I did the replacement. Maybe age of ballast has an impact?
    Last edited by JPaul; 09-26-2019 at 01:01 PM. Reason: possibly helpful afterthought

  5. #30
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    Nov 2006
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    Got any leads on lower kelvin LED tubes? 2200-ish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    I am an electrician. Licensed since 1993. In the last ten years LEDs of varying quality have flooded our market. I have seen claims of 50,000 hours lifespan on new lamps, only to have call backs in a week. In most retrofit bulbs, it’s the basic resistors and other components that fail, along with soldering points. I think the led component usually is long lasting. Having said that, I think the tubes which bypass the fluorescent ballast are the best. First off, you delete a source of failure and of energy usage when you delete the ballast. Second, the ballast puts out around 600 volts. If you haven’t deleted the ballast, then some crappy component in your Chinese led tube is going to have to reduce that voltage to the usable voltage of the led ribbon in the tube. Cut out this potential failure point and just use 120v direct tubes!

    I have probably 20 4’ two tube lamps in my outbuilding. A good portion had bad ballasts and to A lesser extent, bad tubes. I bought some 2700k 120v tubes on eBay and have been really pleased with them. No flicker. No hum. Instant on and the color beats the harsh cool white color of the old fluorescent tubes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  6. #31
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    I dont think I have ever seen LEDs in that color range. 2700k seems like the incandescent warm white equivalent

  7. #32
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    Oct 2002
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    my own little world
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    I dont think I have ever seen LEDs in that color range. 2700k seems like the incandescent warm white equivalent
    The 2700k LED bulbs I’ve experienced make it feel like you’re in a golden shower.
    focus.

  8. #33
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    Nov 2006
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    There are a decent number of LED bulbs out there in the warmer range, but the tubes are a little more elusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    890
    I changed out a few in my office a couple year’s ago. I used these

    Hyperikon T8 T12 LED Bulbs 4 Foot, 40 Watt Replacement (18W), T10 Light Tube, 4000... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SSNPGSC..._cSHJDbC3FM3ZF

    Simple rewire that was quick to do. They wouldn’t work at first because the sockets on my fixtures had jumpers. I picketed up more sockets but they wouldn’t fit in my decorative fixture. I ended up taking the old ones apart and snipping out the jumper. They work great. They have a very slight delay when starting but the light is superior to the old florescent tubes
    I'd rather die while I'm living then live while I'm dead

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    The 2700k LED bulbs I’ve experienced make it feel like you’re in a golden shower.
    Made in Russia?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #36
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    Dec 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    I am an electrician. Licensed since 1993. In the last ten years LEDs of varying quality have flooded our market. I have seen claims of 50,000 hours lifespan on new lamps, only to have call backs in a week. In most retrofit bulbs, it’s the basic resistors and other components that fail, along with soldering points. I think the led component usually is long lasting. Having said that, I think the tubes which bypass the fluorescent ballast are the best. First off, you delete a source of failure and of energy usage when you delete the ballast. Second, the ballast puts out around 600 volts. If you haven’t deleted the ballast, then some crappy component in your Chinese led tube is going to have to reduce that voltage to the usable voltage of the led ribbon in the tube. Cut out this potential failure point and just use 120v direct tubes!

    I have probably 20 4’ two tube lamps in my outbuilding. A good portion had bad ballasts and to A lesser extent, bad tubes. I bought some 2700k 120v tubes on eBay and have been really pleased with them. No flicker. No hum. Instant on and the color beats the harsh cool white color of the old fluorescent tubes.
    You're an electrician and buy your stuff on Ebay?

    LED shite is all over the map as far as quality is concerned.

    The old Philips, now called Signify is probably making the best bulb. TCP makes good inexpensive fixtures. Acuity/Lithonia/Juno make higher quality stuff.

    27k is generally the standard lowest Kelvin temperature. CRI is also very important if you're looking for a good "feel" lighting.

    Expensive lamps will dim below 27k Kelvin, but not sure its available in a linear lamp. They are available in LED fixtures.

    One of the other caveats not mentioned with replacing lamps vs fixtures is local rebates. Some fixture replacements have been basically free with the rebate.

    Also, you can buy a Huffy or a Specialized. Not that drastic, but there is some real shit out there.

  12. #37
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    All I can say is they have been installed for 2+ years with zero failures. We install lots of led lamps from TCP, Sora, Phillips and other quality makers and have significant failure rates. I’m with you about buying quality stuff, but in this case I’ve been really impressed with my cheapo tubes. Did I mention I’m cheap?

  13. #38
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    Bump, because I'm finally doing this. I'm going to get the type B LED bulbs, and rewire around the ballast.

    I was reading up on shunted vs non shunted tombstones in the fluorescent fixtures. Everything I see in my fixture suggests it is non shunted, which is what I need for this retrofit: tombstone has 4 wire input, no red "I" or circle I or red dot.

    However, when I test for continuity between the prongs, I get continuity - which suggests shunted. Unless the connection I see on my multimeter is due to the tombstone still being wired in place. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?

    I took pics to show what I'm dealing with - this is all from one fixture, with the ballast cover removed. I believe all the fixtures are identical, all are flush mounted to garage ceiling, all turn on with a single light switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  14. #39
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    Whats the price difference from 2 bulbs to a whole 4 ft setup?

    In your example however just tie the 2 yellows to the hot and neutral (black and white ) and ditch the blues

  15. #40
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    Mar 2005
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    Why the fuck wouldn’t you just install a new fixture?

    Retrofit bulbs are great when they are in conduit.

    Your pic looks like an easier fixture replacement
    . . .

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Zander View Post
    Whats the price difference from 2 bulbs to a whole 4 ft setup?

    In your example however just tie the 2 yellows to the hot and neutral (black and white ) and ditch the blues
    Enough bulbs to do it all (22) is about $95. Do you think replacing the entire fixture can be done at under $10 per fixture, including bulbs?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Zander View Post
    Whats the price difference from 2 bulbs to a whole 4 ft setup?

    In your example however just tie the 2 yellows to the hot and neutral (black and white ) and ditch the blues
    Assuming that each end of the replacement tube should take a hot or a neutral, I’d tie all the red and blues to the hot, and the neutral to the yellows. His tombstones aren’t internally shunted, so you need a wort to each contact

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    Assuming that each end of the replacement tube should take a hot or a neutral, I’d tie all the red and blues to the hot, and the neutral to the yellows. His tombstones aren’t internally shunted, so you need a wort to each contact
    I bought these bulbs, which are "single ended power," which -- reading the instructions -- means that the yellow wiring end on my fixture doesn't need to be wired to anything, because that end of the fixture only physically holds the bulbs in place, and doesn't provide power or a ground. So, just disconnect the yellow wires.
    https://www.amazon.com/Sunco-Lightin...95&sr=8-8&th=1

    Sunco instructions:
    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71aV0TbfM2L.pdf

    And specifically:


    Based on the colors on my fixture, it looks like my rewiring consists of:

    1) Tombstone with red wires: attach the hot (black from building) to one terminal; attach the neutral (white from building) to the other terminal
    2) Tombstone with blue wires: attach the hot (black from building) to one terminal; attach the neutral (white from building) to the other terminal

    Google tells me that LED bulbs have polarity, so I'll check the bulbs for labeling for hot vs neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  19. #44
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    Also, following up on this (from my earlier post) -- "However, when I test for continuity between the prongs, I get continuity - which suggests shunted. Unless the connection I see on my multimeter is due to the tombstone still being wired in place. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?"

    Can anyone shed light on this? Is my multimeter just reading out continuity based on the tombstone being wired in place?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I bought these bulbs, which are "single ended power," which -- reading the instructions -- means that the yellow wiring end on my fixture doesn't need to be wired to anything, because that end of the fixture only physically holds the bulbs in place, and doesn't provide power or a ground. So, just disconnect the yellow wires.
    That’s pretty slick. I think I’ve only dealt with ones that wire to both ends

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    Also, following up on this (from my earlier post) -- "However, when I test for continuity between the prongs, I get continuity - which suggests shunted. Unless the connection I see on my multimeter is due to the tombstone still being wired in place. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?"

    Can anyone shed light on this? Is my multimeter just reading out continuity based on the tombstone being wired in place?
    You won't damage them by having polarity reversed they just won't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    You won't damage them by having polarity reversed they just won't work.
    Right, but my question is more about confirming that I have non shunted tombstones.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  23. #48
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    Led replacement bulbs are not polarity sensitive when theyre converting ac to dc. The drivers that convert are contained within.

    Continuity tests need to be conducted heh with the blue and red wires cut

    And you can use either end

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Zander View Post
    Led replacement bulbs are not polarity sensitive when theyre converting ac to dc. The drivers that convert are contained within.

    Continuity tests need to be conducted heh with the blue and red wires cut

    And you can use either end
    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  25. #50
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    If you wire up a shunted tombstone to 120v, you will trip a breaker. You should have no continuity between the two contacts

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