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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    As Truckee ages I could see people renting a room or building and renting an ADU at zero or discounted rent in exchange for shoveling, doing defensible space, etc.
    for sure
    even when I lived in VT 20 yrs ago I exchanged rent for shoveling the entryways at a hotel in the mad river valley for my dad's friend who owned the hotel and lived there but had back issues
    of course I was hungover/ probably still drunk at times shoveling at 6am but it was the entry. and hey just showing up on time (for the most part) and working hard worked
    skid luxury

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Just out of curiosity, where do you have in mind? (That aren’t already under consideration or already excluded for some reason)...
    keeping in mind I'm just a dude on the internet with no specific expertise in this issue who just typed up an overly lengthy word soup:

    there isn't much land, and the county/town talk a good talk about upzoning in the town, but we need to accept that some places can handle a building taller than 3 stories without destroying the character of our community. it'll help rental projects pencil out, and I believe landowners could print money on simple market-rate rentals if they can build enough units. JHMR at one point tried to get permission to build a 4 story building behind kmart for employees and the town said no.

    if people want to buy in at this point, that's what victor, alpine, and star valley are for, and I hope those valleys don't go all nimby and start to make it harder to build. JH proper just needs a lot of new rental apartments to keep the place functioning and to give people a place to live when they first move here, before they decide to lay down roots and try to buy in a commuter town.

    hidden hollow was great, but it could be taller and I wouldn't care. that's a lot of worker bees who won't be looking for rental housing in victor.

    the commissioners have murmured about rezoning northern south park some day (AKA Gill/Lockhart land around smiths/highschool road), so thats not a new idea. it won't interfere with elk migration either.

    if county rezoned northern south park and those families decided to cash out on some of their land, it would be a shame to pave it over with relatively low-density duplexes or homes on small lots like cottonwood flats. The county should take the opportunity to go balls out with incentives for maximum density if the landowners wanted to put up big apartment buildings there. with infrastructure upgrades, including tribal trails, and possibly access from highway 89, you could go 5 stories there no problem, and the density might be sufficient enough for some people to actually ride the start bus. I suspect that if they ever rezone that, nearby homeowners will fight until it's a watered down waste, and we'll pave over that beautiful land with expensive low-density shit for minimum benefit.

    same with the rodeo grounds. yes, they'll eventually get redeveloped, but hopefully it's denser than the redmond/hall rentals that the town recently built. anyone know the real story on the "has to be used for rodeo" stipulations? guessing the law is on county's side.

    joe rice got a 4-story building approved by the pawn shop on broadway. he had to fight the council to build it in a way that it could pencil. obviously he has an incentive to house his employees, but I suspect he'll directly profit on the rent too if it ever gets built. but it's an example of how we benefit when the council just stepped back, made exceptions to strict zoning regs, and let someone build something that penciled.

    that half-vacant farmhouse live/work development across from smiths was a huge wasted opportunity. if the landowner had some kind of density bonus for rental housing and could build 4 stories, that could have been great, and it would have been a better investment for them in the end. current zoning allows for a 3rd story but only with major setbacks, and there are other difficult requirements RE building form and mass.

    other in-town properties I can think of as being good candidates for redevelopment as rentals if given allowances for increased density:

    *auto dealership and adjacent properties across from smiths, above the old sands whitewater building (all owned by 1300 land, whoever that is. bet they'd like printing money from rentals though)
    *the disused sands whitewater building/lot across from smiths (charlie still owns it)
    *the open lot behind the togwotee snowmobile adventures building could take a big building for sure
    *possibly a lot of the industrial/service properties on gregory lane, especially if we vote to upgrade gregory lane in the spet election
    *a rich dude could maybe assemble some of the dilapidated properties on south park loop road in between gregory and blair over time and then, if incentivized with density bonuses, build a massive building.
    *downtown, the gravel lot by lewis and clark rafting (owned by mogul hospitality partners)...find a way to let them put up a 5+ story apartment building on that big lot and maybe they'll decide it's not worth it to build a hotel, especially with the new commercial mitigation rules

    in sum, there isn't much, but we just have to do a little more to help private developers pencil out on rental housing, and it will seriously help us all if the worker bees have more rental options. they are all driving here anyways.

    as per the thread title, streamlining ADUs in county would be less controversial

  3. #128
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    You definitely outlined quite a few more with potential (within town limits). I would imagine that savvy owners have been exploring any and all development concepts, but yeah, no one is talking more than three stories at this point.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    I'm going to be a inducted as a partner at my form
    Congrats!

  5. #130
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    Based on LesternSmooths last post, I am guessing that Jackson has a building and zoning code designed to discourage high density in fill despite all the politicians and policies stating they should be building high density. If developers can't pencil out building housing in this market with the supply problems described so far, I have to think that no amount of tweaking the rules around ADUs is going to make any difference.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckacali View Post
    See, now the people complaining about this project really piss me off. This is a fantastic development that Truckee desperately needed (and could use more of). The developer has committed to filling units with local workers and then everyone bitches that the rent is going to be too high. It's not cheap to build around here - do they expect someone to invest their time and money and then barely turn a profit or break even? The complaints about a lack of housing in town are absolutely legit but there's also a certain degree of entitlement with some of the whiners.

    It's also in a great walkable location and I think a lot of people underestimate how much $$ they will be saving by not commuting all the way from Reno or wherever.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by char_ View Post
    Based on LesternSmooths last post, I am guessing that Jackson has a building and zoning code designed to discourage high density in fill despite all the politicians and policies stating they should be building high density. If developers can't pencil out building housing in this market with the supply problems described so far, I have to think that no amount of tweaking the rules around ADUs is going to make any difference.
    A few years ago they loosened the regs so that people could build multiple structures on in town lots (was called the in-law unit law), so they did do something, they are just balking at 4 stories.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  8. #133
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    Anyone know how much Jackson and Teton County currently spend on affordable housing? Or better yet who can show me how to find out on my own?
    Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    handy dandy- I use this all the time for when I can't remember my neighbor's names (of course I know their dog's names though)
    "Good morning, JH Landgrab, LLC"

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Better pubtrans is defiantly a must. More and or wider roads just mean more autos.
    I don't buy that argument in JH because of, at the least, the last mile challenges. Sure, a carpenter 'might' somehow lug their tool belt on to the bus, but aren't going to walk the last mile to get to the 8000 sf starter castle they are building.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tye 1on View Post
    I don't buy that argument in JH because of, at the least, the last mile challenges. Sure, a carpenter 'might' somehow lug their tool belt on to the bus, but aren't going to walk the last mile to get to the 8000 sf starter castle they are building.
    Huh, I've had to make that hike to a jobsite.. And doing work in NYC opened my eyes to how the carpinteros get their tools to and from jobsites using pubtrans (the subway). Pretty cool thing to see.. Lots of variations of this, usually custom with skate trucks.

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    It was a cool little project up with the oligarchs above Columbus Circle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by I Skied Bandini Mountain; 09-26-2019 at 04:52 PM.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokomas View Post
    Anyone know how much Jackson and Teton County currently spend on affordable housing? Or better yet who can show me how to find out on my own?
    if you still haven't figured out your answer, it might be quicker to just call the teton county housing authority and just straight up ask, rather than trying to piece together numbers from county/town documents online.

    I don't know an exact number, but it's from a mix of sources. part is tax (spet and general fund), part is money from developers who paid cash instead of building affordable housing under mitigation rules, and I guess sometimes it's private donations. Town gave land to habitat for humanity for part of the grove project, for example. employee housing built for county/town employees should probably be considered as a different category.

    I did see recently that Redmond/Hall Rentals cost 9 mil for just 24 units, and I think most of that was from developer fees.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Better pubtrans is defiantly a must. More and or wider roads just mean more autos.
    Even with better cross dressing bars, there will still be more cars. Allowing them to move along better is good.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  14. #139
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    How to increase rental housing supply in ski towns without pissing everyone off

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Even with better cross dressing bars,.
    Quoted for lulz




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  15. #140
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    How to increase rental housing supply in ski towns without pissing everyone off

    Kokokmas is fighting the good fight. This is an important topic.
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  16. #141
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    Pubtrans
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Huh, I've had to make that hike to a jobsite.. And doing work in NYC opened my eyes to how the carpinteros get their tools to and from jobsites using pubtrans (the subway). Pretty cool thing to see.. Lots of variations of this, usually custom with skate trucks.

    Name:  suitcasecasters-large.jpg
Views: 522
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    It was a cool little project up with the oligarchs above Columbus Circle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I worked a couple different custom cabinets and furniture gigs all up and down eastern NC and New Jersey. Every time we went in to Manhattan for all day or multi day jobs we had one of our crew with the work truck at all times, either double parked, parked somewhat illegally, or circling the block to manage those logistics.

    But, getting to and from the shop daily commute, NOBODY brought their freaking tools in and out every damned day. We left our gear at the shop or in the work trucks most of the time so walking or public transportation wasn't a problem for that aspect of the overall transportation.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  18. #143
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    I was born a bar trapped in a pub's body.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  19. #144
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    the problem is, if you were to spend 11 mil on 3 acres, and then build 50 1-bdr units, you're still subsidizing each unit by 220k/unit just in land costs. and what if they can't even build 50? when you have expensive land, you have to build up or else you're just blowing your wad on bullshit. we don't need to subsidize the hell out of housing if we just build efficiently, but that's what pisses everyone off.

    JH's permanently terrified town/county government first spent 1.7 mil to buy a double lot basically in the heart of downtown depending on who you ask (neighbors say it's a quiet residential street, but some lots back up onto a big money cabin resort), CERTAIN to build 16 or more units. woman who moved there a few years ago scared the fuck out of the town/county and now maybe they'll build 6-8. so, the public subsidy goes from 106k to $280k-210k just on land, and far fewer people are housed. that is, unless the town gives up and sells it in a recession for 1.2k and it becomes 2 box mansions for 67yo retirees, or maybe 29yo's who earn 60k but somehow own an 800k 1960s shitbox.

    it's possible. neighbors need to just relax, count their blessings, and go for a hike, and remember how nice it is to own a single family home 1 block from heavy duty commercial downtown areas. (sorry djongo, from previous posts get the impression you live next door, but thats how i feel)

  21. #146
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    APCHA’s been criticized for building some really expensive units, $1.3m sfh. But on the whole, I think they have the support of the community.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    APCHA’s been criticized for building some really expensive units, $1.3m sfh. But on the whole, I think they have the support of the community.
    yeah, and aspens land costs are a different ballgame, and I'm pretty sure they have a lot more money to play with than JH too. anyways, that looks like a cool opportunity.

  23. #148
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    I'm starting to meet / talk to the right people on this. I attended mt2030.org conference in Park City this week. Any mags there as well?

    Listened to some planning officials from major ski towns. Park City is planning for 800 affordable or attainable units in the next 10 years or so. The units we toured and overall effort were impressive. But this would merely allow them to keep up with growth and maintain the 15 percent of workforce that currently lives in town. And they have mostly been for sale units. To me they are nice builds / good materials / thoughtful and efficient designs. Any Park City mags willing to give the local perspective on that program? Too expensive/not enough is my guess

    Aspen and summit county reps seemed far along while other towns not so much.

    Most people see ARU / ADU's as a reasonable part of a larger solution. They all would prefer to increase density in town rather than outside in neighboring county.

    But damn it seems there are a lot of units in play for Teton County. Mayor/council fighting for units 8 or 16 at a time. Meanwhile, how many existing ARUs here are rented to snowbirds or non-county workers? I'd guess quite a bit. Rode the bus to SLC with a retired couple bragging about living in one for half a year. County seems only concerned with limiting them as short term rentals. Perhaps a good first step is to just extend this to enforcing the existing requirement that renters be county workers. I would love to see the numbers / opportunity set. Also would like to know if guest homes predating the county ARU regs are exempt somehow. But I'd guess there would be 50 plus units up for grabs. In other jurisdictions you pay a nominal fee for a rental license and that goes to fund landlord education and things like enforcement. Maybe a good first step here to start quantifying the opportunity. Although it may just be pushing pees around a plate if these folks merely move over to the existing apartment rental market.

    Also, does anyone know if Jackson / Teton County has a stated plan / number of units it is shooting for?
    Last edited by kokomas; 10-05-2019 at 08:11 AM. Reason: Hi
    Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.

  24. #149
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    In the past handful of day I have

    a. exchanged PM with a front ranger about purchasing housing and having a STR in the Fraser Valley

    b. exchanged PM with an outa-stater Master Electrician who would love to move his family to the mountains of Colorado but is concerned about the high cost of housing

    c. had multiple conversations with general contractors and second home owners about the prices electricians are charging and how it is close to impossible to get them scheduled.

    It is all so very obviously related and, in my opinion, there is a potential solution that remains unexplored, "Is a AirBnB/Vrbo a zoning violation is a traditionally residential neighborhood?".

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    In the past handful of day I have

    a. exchanged PM with a front ranger about purchasing housing and having a STR in the Fraser Valley

    b. exchanged PM with an outa-stater Master Electrician who would love to move his family to the mountains of Colorado but is concerned about the high cost of housing

    c. had multiple conversations with general contractors and second home owners about the prices electricians are charging and how it is close to impossible to get them scheduled.

    It is all so very obviously related and, in my opinion, there is a potential solution that remains unexplored, "Is a AirBnB/Vrbo a zoning violation is a traditionally residential neighborhood?".

    Not a zoning violation currently, until the local govt decides to make it that way and enforce it. But in resort areas like ours, it still doesn't make sense. They are just now getting to licensing and taxing STRs. Now that money is coming in, why turn that income stream down? If Fraser is anything like Summit, there's a shitload of affordable housing going up. I'm on the fence whether government intervention is better for limiting STRs or subsidizing affordable housing or either. I'd rather they allow for more of a free market honestly. I feel like a lot of the affordable stuff is just gonna lead to shitty, run down housing in the future, whereas the STRs generally maintain a certain level of quality.

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