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10-25-2019, 11:28 AM #151Registered User
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Who decides what’s traditional, in a resort town?
Just have to build more employee housing.
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/aspe...moves-forward/
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10-25-2019, 11:31 AM #152
Free market would suggest if resorts can’t find employees due to housing shortages, the resort needs to build more housing.
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10-25-2019, 11:38 AM #153
Or perhaps pay more so the employees can actually afford to live there?
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10-25-2019, 11:39 AM #154
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10-25-2019, 11:53 AM #155
Like the railroads and coal companies used to do--build company towns, charge rent, grocery bills etc to the workers which somehow always managed to be more than their pay.
From the resort's standpoint it makes sense. From the employee's standpoint--if they change jobs they lose their housing.
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10-25-2019, 01:38 PM #156Registered User
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if it was easy everyone would be doing it
fuck that shoulda got here twenty years ago
not my problem
who cares
maybe we can start holding lotteries, a few people are selected each year to move to a ski town and live rent/mortgage free for a lifetime
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10-25-2019, 02:12 PM #157
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10-25-2019, 02:52 PM #158
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10-25-2019, 02:58 PM #159Registered User
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get real it's not like I had a trust fund the day I showed up in town at 19, it kicked in a couple years after I got here
keep skiing and mtn towns priviladged I've had enough fat midwestern tourists all summer, bring on the black cards and helly hansen one piecers
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10-25-2019, 07:54 PM #160
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10-25-2019, 08:53 PM #161
market price of labor = what you have to pay to get someone to do the job
market price of labor != the cost of living. hence the whole "living wage" thing.
pretty much every expensive resort community figures this out eventually.
if you want a "freer market" to fix your housing problems change zoning laws/building codes/planning approval so you can build more, cheaper, living units.
If you aren't willing to do that, the freer market ain't going to fix shit. And since most communitys aren't willing to do that they bandage it with "affordable housing" or shuttling workers in from worker ghettos far away.Last edited by dunfree ; 10-26-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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10-26-2019, 10:06 PM #162
The reality of being an outsider moving to a ski town is sacrificing a few years of your life in order to save up the cash and make it work. As an outsider who's in the process, I get it. It keeps the people out who aren't committed.
How many legit ski towns are left though? Every cookie cutter apartment complex and mcmansion added is a turn off if you're looking for the real deal.
Sent from my SM-G950U using TGR Forums mobile app"Skiing is the easy part, Carl."
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10-27-2019, 07:10 AM #163
I have a bit of a project plan forming here in TC (the wyoming one) as I want to add an accessory rental unit to my property that will increase my property value over time, allow me to rent out to friends who work in the county, and potentially house our parents some day if one set of them moves out. I'll chip away at the plan as I have time and we try to save some money to do it. The place shouldn't be too small and definitely shouldn't have a ladder to the bed like the tiny houses do. It should maximize the 1000sq ft allowance and should maybe be attached to a garage for tenant use and to store toys. The obvious issue is that as it moves up the scale to what would actually be livable, the rent I'd need moves out of reach of people i'm looking to house
1. Trailer / tiny home on wheels - not allowed although I see many others doing it in plain sight of the road. ELIMINATED
2. Tiny home - very expensive per square foot, most are not made for the cold here, needs to be signed off on by local engineering firm to be permitted including fill foundation, needs to tie into existing septic or town sanitation. Probably not worth the hassle if we want to replace with a bigger structure some day
3. Move an existing cabin or teardown - potentially cheaper per sq ft even with the moving cost, but may not get a good layout, everything will have to be brought up to code, need to put it on blocks while we get the right foundation made
4. Prefab house - need to meet with some firms that do this, haven't explored yet. Holding out some hope, send me names of you got them
5. Stick built on site - get the right build but very expensive such that (when we came up with the scratch) I'd have to charge way more in rent than friends would be able/willing to pay. Still an option if rented out at market to a family with some more coin that want to get into the school systemLast edited by kokomas; 10-27-2019 at 07:52 AM.
Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.
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10-27-2019, 07:16 AM #164
Would Stilson be an option? I realize they are tearing it up to put in more parking which seems like a good idea but what about putting multi use development here including a bunch of parking? I don't know the land size/constrains but it's in county, on the bus lines, could reasonably do well with westbankers currently crowding into a couple restaurants, potentially cut down on traffic to town, etc
Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.
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10-27-2019, 07:38 AM #165
No worries...
The new neighbor is just the voice of the neighborhood because she has prior skillset for that and she has a genuine dog in the fight.
At least 2 homeowners on the street are from families that Pioneered this town. 3-5 generations deep. Tuckers and Karns'.
Most homes owned over 25 years by same person. Working neighborhood that already houses about 10-15 renters in 2 blocks.
The big cabin development owned by Clarene is the quiet mover behind this and always has been. She wants all the property between the cabins and the rodeo grounds and has purchased a place or two under cover already. She's one of the biggest monopolists in JH.
When the place first got approval, (subsequently unapproved) The guy behind the prop got an offer from a developer for his and his mother's next door home. For more high density. The domino effect took a nanosecond.
Unapproval saw the offer rescinded.
The long established block was now being set up to have about 20-30 new residents on 3 lots. See any problems there?
Long time locals would be pushed out so tomorrows kids can have a phenomenally overpriced shoebox with a shite parking scenario. Fucking genius. And soulful.
And fuck the Mayor who says full build-out or sell it. Politics is about compromise, not my way or the highway. And FWIW, the neighbors have ALWAYS said yes, we are open to some more density so long as it doesn't fuck us over.
Scary lady (?) has gone through fire to come up with alternatives and options. She should be in charge of the housing authority as the current gal is a clusterfuck. She thought she saw a good opportunity and spent a bunch of our money on a weak bet.
There aren't many but options do exist in this town/county that are by all definitions, a better direction.
County sat on 5 acres just a 1/2 mile from Koko's home for almost 20 years. Right in front of the aspens, now for sale.
As a 30 year resident I am both happy and sad for Kokomas. I consider him a very capable, intelligent guy and I fear he is stepping into a shit pile gnarlier than one might imagine. OTOH, I'd be lifetime amped if he can move that mountain. I shit you not, the person who fixes the problems here could easily run the country.
We are relaxed. If you were thinking we were not relaxed, then you're gonna freak when we ACTUALLY become unglued.
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10-27-2019, 08:18 AM #166
I've thought about this too.
I'd have to excavate, pour, dig septic, run util's etc.
I lean toward tiny home on wheels, remove wheels and crane onto foundation. There are a couple tiny home villages here that seem to do fine in the winter .. Sprout Tiny Homes I think they are http://sprouttinyhomes.com/
A guy down the way did a pre-fab, it came out nice. but it's yudge, a ranch that came in 2 parts and craned onto foundation. Dunno if they make smaller ones?
Stick built would be the way to go if you could do most of it yourself or bro-deal it, otherwise the $/SF in my area is offensive.
If I had an ADU, I'd rather have long term renters, not vacation rentals - for a lot of reasons. But a guy can generate more $ doing the latter.
To get this back on topic, maybe the county could encourage employee housing rentals of ADU's and spare rooms by subsidizing the property owner, with an agreement on capping affordable rent? That way the county wouldn't have the HUGE investment to buy property and build and maintain housing, just scratch a monthly 'rent' check. Owner to get 1000 from county, and 700$ or whatever from the employee renter?
Motivation to not VRBO, affordable rent for employee, and not building as many new units. Plus the building/maintaining costs fall to the owner, and owner realizes the value increase to property too.
Is this a dumb idea?
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10-27-2019, 08:42 AM #167
And then you have government paying to supply low wage employees to resort corporations.
Am I the only one who finds this distasteful?
I'm not some Ayn Rand carrying Libertarian who thinks government is cancer, I just really don't like the idea of government/tax money helping corporations keep wages artificially low. If they can't hire enough worker bees to wipe the asses of their rich customers because it's too expensive for worker bees to live there - they need to pay more to their worker bees.
Yes I know mom and pop's are getting pinched too, but I don't see corporate welfare as the answer.
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10-27-2019, 08:50 AM #168
Actually I agree with both of prior posts if that's possible. Maybe a PPP where county helps the homeowner put the ADU in (streamlined permitting from a small range of local options where plans are readily available and architects/contractors are scoped out, perhaps financing or grant), employers register with county to sponsor the rental of new units in exchange for living spaces for some number of employees, and the homeowner agrees to put ADU in the affordable rental pool for x number of years
Last edited by kokomas; 10-27-2019 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Edited to add financing
Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.
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10-27-2019, 08:50 AM #169
This x 1000000000
It is a racket
See the PPP problem you have with Vail is they have a shit ton of land they are sitting on and have had for decades near basically all of their resorts. But they won't develop because they know the market cannot support that much buildout of land farther from the resort. But they won't sell it.
So they go, hey taxpayer! We'll donate this land we paid 100K for years ago. You taxpayers drop 10s of millions to develop deed restricted units, and you guys manage the rentals through county housing authority, but we want half of those units permanently reserved for Vail employees who we can then pay otherwise below prevailing market wages because the job has attached discounted housing.
The taxpayer gets fucked. The employees have increased power disparity because their housing security is attached to their particular corporate employer... nobody wins except Vail.
And the cycle continues.Originally Posted by blurred
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10-27-2019, 08:58 AM #170Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.
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10-27-2019, 08:59 AM #171And then you have government paying to supply low wage employees to resort corporations.
Am I the only one who finds this distasteful?
unit or live in an apartment with granite counters in town an my expensive is tough for me to take.
I know of zero people in the trades that live in affordable housing. They all get paid a minimum of $25/hr. because that is what the market demands. Hotels, restaurants, retails stores, management companies want to pay $15/hr. and then have their employees pay the poor card and suck on the government tit. All the while the business owners are calling in the the town council meetings from their condo in Cabo complaining about the struggle to find employees. Oh, the "qualified applicants" are hand picked by a committee made up of business owners. So yeah, the only beneficiaries are the business owners that get to pay a below market wage, a handful of "workers" that win the lottery, and the contractors building the places. The ski resort is not the problem. They purchase their own units to house their employees.
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10-27-2019, 09:06 AM #172Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.
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10-27-2019, 09:08 AM #173
Truth. It is distasteful.
But that corporate welfare already happening here. Gvt has done (are still doing) it by taking countless millions buying land, millions more to build crappy high density housing, lots more $ to administer the program, investigate fraud, etc.
Could that same money going forward be better utilized to re-purpose or subsidize existing housing supply for workers? While helping out property owners too?
I don't see our local gvt ever getting out of the employee housing game - that toothpaste is out of the tube.
It's not a solution, I know. But seems like it could help a little.
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10-27-2019, 09:08 AM #174
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10-27-2019, 09:43 AM #175
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