How to increase rental housing supply in ski towns without pissing everyone off

[ill-advised strategy]

Couple thoughts:

1) if you really succeed in adding density and ADUs and splitting big homes into apartments and all those moves, you can pretty quickly end up with serious parking clusterfucks. So in the OP plan you’d have to brainstorm that aspect too.

2) Taos was a free for all when I lived there. Sketchy bums living in a converted tuff shed with the 55 gallon drum woodstove next to Julia Roberts’ mansion kinda stuff. Build a home out of tires? Sure. Giant teepee for rent in the back yard? Sure. Hollowed-out school busses? Yup.
All the stuff people struggle so hard over re: zoning, like trying desperately to control the uniformity of an area...none of that existed there (then) and it was all just fine. Plenty of cheap options, trailers, whatever...plenty of absurd lavish resort options for the fancypants too. Everyone just has to agree to leave each other alone a bit more.

[Djongo Unchained]

Now we're starting to hash out the old and very real reasons these towns have issues.

Hard to believe but Jackson too is beginning to die. The ignorance of the roots of problems, amateurish approach to local gov't., and intense greed factor make it more than likely.

If Koko could actually untie a few of the issues binding this place up, he'd make a Mayoral challenge seem like a walk in the park.

[ill-advised strategy]

walk in the park.

The trailer park?

Bah dum *rimshot*

[bagtagley]

A developer in my little town got approval for four four-story apt buildings, working around the master plan and planning board, by selling it as affordable housing, which we need. Not surprisingly, it's not very affordable.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Couple thoughts:



2) Taos was a free for all when I lived there. Sketchy bums living in a converted tuff shed with the 55 gallon drum woodstove next to Julia Roberts’ mansion kinda stuff. Build a home out of tires? Sure. Giant teepee for rent in the back yard? Sure. Hollowed-out school busses? Yup.
All the stuff people struggle so hard over re: zoning, like trying desperately to control the uniformity of an area...none of that existed there (then) and it was all just fine. Plenty of cheap options, trailers, whatever...plenty of absurd lavish resort options for the fancypants too. Everyone just has to agree to leave each other alone a bit more.

My folks lived in Taos during those days, definitely live and let live. Except when the Rainbow Family showed up. It's a pretty impressive achievement that they could piss off everyone in that town.

[fastfred]

I work with a lot of guys that commute from both Gypsum and LV. Gypsum not too bad but they did have a lot of commuter direction accidents last winter compared to the norm.
Leadville is a rough one though if you go at commute times, otherwise just long. We're talking 4-5x/wk every week. Used to commute from Lakewood to Airport Rd years ago (@ 45-60 min) and it sucked but you didn't have to be on point the whole time.
But at least all commutes get "shorter" the longer you do them.

more and more people are commuting huge distances
I know a few people driving from lakewood daily to work in summit, mostly due to family situations, front range weather and then the money they can make in summit
the hotels along i70 in frisco and silverthorne are nothing but man camps in the summer these days, housing workers mon-thur and toursts on the weekends
there is alot of back and forth between summit and eagle people commuting both ways
one of my guys drives on average 1.5 hrs each way WTF? but his family has 100 plus acres of peace and quiet he lives on for cheap

Oh I get it... my point is the entitlement mindset around Summit and Eagle where new locals not only want to live in outdoor paradise on a low skill job without any greater sacrifice than living in the burbs, they also want shorter commutes than the average Coloradan, and they want tax money to facilitate it all.

And your other post was pretty spot on!

you have to really really want to live here and give up the two car garage 3000 sq ft house idea plus a million other things
I always say the least likely people to live here are the ones who will end up living here their whole lives
the people who hold onto the fantasy and dream of what it's suppose to be will never stick it out

[Telemarketeer]

you have to really really want to live here and give up the two car garage 3000 sq ft house idea plus a million other things
I always say the least likely people to live here are the ones who will end up living here their whole lives
the people who hold onto the fantasy and dream of what it's suppose to be will never stick it out

Yup. You either figure out a way to make it work or you don't. Makes you appreciate it more. I feel like making it easier for everyone will create a generation of entitled mountain dwellers who don't appreciate what we have. They'll be clogging lift lines though, standing in $3K+ worth of ski gear that came out of a new $30K Tacoma, bitching about the snow and the cold (if we are lucky), while their kids are in sitting govt sponsored daycare.

[ill-advised strategy]

My folks lived in Taos during those days, definitely live and let live. Except when the Rainbow Family showed up. It's a pretty impressive achievement that they could piss off everyone in that town.

The appearance and situation of a neighbor’s property is one thing, 1000 beggar gypsy bandits arriving to a town of 5,000 at once is another.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

The appearance and situation of a neighbor’s property is one thing, 1000 beggar gypsy bandits and their dogs arriving to a town of 5,000 at once is another.

Fixed it.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

you have to really really want to live here and give up the two car garage 3000 sq ft house idea plus a million other things
I always say the least likely people to live here are the ones who will end up living here their whole lives
the people who hold onto the fantasy and dream of what it's suppose to be will never stick it out

We should have this be the automatic response to all the "I'm thinking of moving to a ski town" threads that come ever year. There's more truth in these lines than most people will realize, hope everyone is paying attention.

[summit]

My folks lived in Taos during those days, definitely live and let live.

What flies in New Mexico isn't exactly a guaranteed solution for... well... anywhere but New Mexico

more and more people are commuting huge distances
I know a few people driving from lakewood daily to work in summit, mostly due to family situations, front range weather and then the money they can make in summit

there is alot of back and forth between summit and eagle people commuting both ways

I spent 5 years commuting to Denver from Summit. Several healthcare workers do this.

And there are plenty of RNs, paramedics, and doctors who want the bigger houses (or a house instead of a condo), long summers, and and stable communities they can get in the Denver burbs who commute up to Summit for work.

you have to really really want to live here and give up the two car garage 3000 sq ft house idea plus a million other things... the people who hold onto the fantasy and dream of what it's suppose to be will never stick it out

Exactly... living in ski country is a MASSIVE trade. We trade a higher cost of living, work extra, live in smaller places, have roommates, enjoy less material luxury, in more transient communities, and deal with tourists and weekenders... in exchange we get the mountain life and the benefits of resort proximity.

Some local complainers have legit gripes. Most of them forget what they signed up for and fail to see what they are getting out of the deal. They usually leave... but sometimes not until years after have become bitter.

[ill-advised strategy]

What flies in New Mexico isn't exactly a guaranteed solution for... well... anywhere but New Mexico

You see the point though...resort town with plenty of mixed use space and affordable options for the ski industry labor pool. Big fancy places are still valuable and little basic rentals are still cheap...The sky isn’t falling, that old conventional wisdom that mixing them inevitably ruins one or the other is proven false.

[fastfred]

Yup. You either figure out a way to make it work or you don't. Makes you appreciate it more. I feel like making it easier for everyone will create a generation of entitled mountain dwellers who don't appreciate what we have. They'll be clogging lift lines though, standing in $3K+ worth of ski gear that came out of a new $30K Tacoma, bitching about the snow and the cold (if we are lucky), while their kids are in sitting govt sponsored daycare.

too funny
you wrote "will create"
dude that generation has been created, everything your wrote is spot on
gov't sponsored day care was created at least ten years ago, sign up for your subsidy before the kid is born

[SB]

Teepees

[DougW]

There seems to be two reasons for this town dying thing. The Park City seems more like consumed by a metro area and the ski area becomes the cool area where only rich people live. Much like the area of a city where poor artists flock because its cheap then the Galleries come and it becomes really cool and expensive so new artists have to find a new cheap area to start plus the original poor people are pushed out by redevelopment.

The other is more once a critical mass of "working " people can't life in a place to support its infrastructure ( teachers, nurses, police, grocery clerks) then the town ceases being a town and becomes a collection of houses mostly unoccupied most of year.

[MTT]

The trailer park?

Bah dum *rimshot*

Not really a bad idea.

So long as the well healed want to own a 5000 sq ft 3rd or 4th home. And the county approves it. There will never be room for the little people.

In Tahoe when I was a kid, it was mostly 600 sq ft Cabins Some for rent some not.

It's been interesting to watch the landscape change of the past 50 years.

It's not good. At some point I guess the rich will have surfs living on there estates. - oh that is already happening.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I feel like the bullshittery that housing has become for so many is a direct result of "trickle down" magical bs economics. Everyone knows shit rolls downhill.
Then again, places like Vancouver or Sidney (both places I've heard have some serious housing price issues. Who knows outside the English speaking world, HK?) are not exactly the Randohyakian capitols of the world. (I made up a new word, and I like it).

[LesterSmoove]

A developer in my little town got approval for four four-story apt buildings, working around the master plan and planning board, by selling it as affordable housing, which we need. Not surprisingly, it's not very affordable.

maybe that building isn't very affordable. but if young doctors are currently renting shitty basement apartments in 1960s split-level homes for lack of alternative options, and they have the opportunity to move into brand-new apartments with more professional management and a more stable lease, it frees up housing for others.

in JH, it seems like the rent money isn't always the biggest issue in finding a place. it's simply finding an available place at all and being first in contact, or having the connection with the landlord. I rented a condo a few years ago where I was one of 30 people who contacted the owner before they deleted the ad, and I got super fucking lucky. then I found my current place because I knew a guy who knew a guy. if new buildings go up at seemingly high rents, that's a good thing. victor gets more and more expensive because people with a little money or a halfway decent income are getting forced over there to rent or buy. the more you put into JH, the less pressure on victor.

there is no "solution" to the issue. but there are a lot of things we can do to make the situation less shitty and help the town/county function better. there are still a handful of good chunks of land where private developers could build reasonably priced apartment rental buildings and make a boatload of money if given the right incentives (i.e. maybe 5-7 stories in some places and 3-4 stories in others and don't make them dance for the planning commission for years). a few row houses here and there won't be much help. people should be allowed to build tiny houses in their backyards with minimal hassle, so Kokomas should absolutely dig deeper into that issue and help guide change like a boss.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Eat the rich.

[rideit]

. there are still a handful of good chunks of land where private developers could build reasonably priced apartment rental buildings and make a boatload of money if given the right incentives (i.e. maybe 5-7 stories in some places and 3-4 stories .

Just out of curiosity, where do you have in mind? (That aren’t already under consideration or already excluded for some reason)...

[old goat]

Used to be that every time a developer wanted to build in Truckee the locals would scream about too many units and the planning commission would make them put fewer houses on the same land. Those people have shut up now.
Architect/planner friend of mine gave a talk in Nevada City and told the local hippies that living on a big pot or goat farm up on the San Juan Ridge was not exactly environmentally friendly. They about ran him out of town on a rail.
The European countryside is not a bad model--a lot of places with small dense villages separated by green space (mostly working farms) connected by trains and buses.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Better pubtrans is defiantly a must. More and or wider roads just mean more autos.

[babybear]

Have at it. https://maps.greenwoodmap.com/tetonw...ip,placelabels

handy dandy- I use this all the time for when I can't remember my neighbor's names (of course I know their dog's names though)


but also a couple points about our specific area-
- when I moved to Jackson 20 yrs ago housing was tough- I lived in a 1 room cabin with 2 friends in Hoback junction
UNTIL I got a gig living in Jackson at the guest house of a larger 2nd homeowner- they wanted someone around since they weren't there often. and that did give me a good start here where I worked as a bartendress and also handing out the pins at the bottom of the NASTAR course for a few yrs and now I'm going to be a inducted as a partner at my firm so it does make a difference. at least in this anecdote. the secondary unit on a big home was my foundation here.
but BL I think kokomas has good ideas and brainstorming going on here
it's so region specific but I think this is a great conversation bc we have so many unique perspectives on the situation on the forum

[bodywhomper]

Architect/planner friend of mine gave a talk in Nevada City and told the local hippies that living on a big pot or goat farm up on the San Juan Ridge was not exactly environmentally friendly. They about ran him out of town on a rail.

Lol. When was that? There are a some folks out there that are pretty close to subsistence living/farming and off grid with pot farming as a means of additional income.

[old goat]

Better pubtrans is defiantly a must. More and or wider roads just mean more autos.

^^^This

handy dandy- I use this all the time for when I can't remember my neighbor's names (of course I know their dog's names though)


but also a couple points about our specific area-
- when I moved to Jackson 20 yrs ago housing was tough- I lived in a 1 room cabin with 2 friends in Hoback junction
UNTIL I got a gig living in Jackson at the guest house of a larger 2nd homeowner- they wanted someone around since they weren't there often. and that did give me a good start here where I worked as a bartendress and also handing out the pins at the bottom of the NASTAR course for a few yrs and now I'm going to be a inducted as a partner at my firm so it does make a difference. at least in this anecdote. the secondary unit on a big home was my foundation here.
but BL I think kokomas has good ideas and brainstorming going on here
it's so region specific but I think this is a great conversation bc we have so many unique perspectives on the situation on the forum

As Truckee ages I could see people renting a room or building and renting an ADU at zero or discounted rent in exchange for shoveling, doing defensible space, etc. Unless the whole place burns down.

Lol. When was that? There are a some folks out there that are pretty close to subsistence living/farming and off grid with pot farming as a means of additional income.

probably 10-15 years ago. A lot of those off the grid folks put a lot of miles on their trucks and their septic systems and ag chemical runoff aren't always well managed.