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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Hunh, I thought you meant in town. But yeah, that’s a lot of property!
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  2. #77
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    You can zoom way in to individual lots in town if you want.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    The affordable housing solution is Victor/Driggs and Alpine (or other surrounding communities in other ski towns).
    People in CO average a commute of 24 minutes (car) to 42 minutes (public transit) across the state including the cities, this isn't very far off from national averages. So why do people act like it is unacceptable to live in 30-60 minutes away from the resort? What is wrong with taking the bus from Leadville or Gypsum to Breck or Vail?

    Your example of Victor/Driggs to Jackson is a great example.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #79
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    the powers that be in ski towns want a constant churn of new eagar willing and able people who will work for pennies
    they don't want he low life worker bee to get comfortable ask for more money and to move up the ladder in life
    fresh faces every year keeps wages low and they can pat themselves on the back by building affordable employee housing funded by tax payer dollars which sort of subsidizes housing but mostly the ability to profit more and pay shitty wages how many busineses offer paid holidays and benfits?
    every business is looking for help but not many businesses are raising their pay
    ski towns exist on below market values for pay and benifits, all other costs are above normal

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Hunh, I thought you meant in town. But yeah, that’s a lot of property!
    How did you find out, just click everywhere to see who owns what?

    Also, when you click 'conservation easement', that really shows a major reason why there aren't many places to build around there.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    the powers that be in ski towns want a constant churn of new eagar willing and able people who will work for pennies
    they don't want he low life worker bee to get comfortable ask for more money and to move up the ladder in life
    fresh faces every year keeps wages low and they can pat themselves on the back by building affordable employee housing funded by tax payer dollars which sort of subsidizes housing but mostly the ability to profit more and pay shitty wages how many busineses offer paid holidays and benfits?
    every business is looking for help but not many businesses are raising their pay
    ski towns exist on below market values for pay and benifits, all other costs are above normal
    This.

    A common refrain here is that employers should pay for/secure housing for their employees if they want to compete and survive. Thinking about how to integrate private sector into my proposal. I still think the town/county would have to play a major part.

    Problem is I would want to have some say who is my neighbor/renter in the 1000sqft house on my lot. Not sure I'd want to outsource that decision to the local bars/restaurants. Thinking
    Day Man. Fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    People in CO average a commute of 24 minutes (car) to 42 minutes (public transit) across the state including the cities, this isn't very far off from national averages. So why do people act like it is unacceptable to live in 30-60 minutes away from the resort? What is wrong with taking the bus from Leadville or Gypsum to Breck or Vail?

    Your example of Victor/Driggs to Jackson is a great example.
    Do you ride the bus? Do you live in leadvegas or gyptucky?
    Everyone expects every to live somewhere else and take public transportation
    but they get to live in town and drive their car all over the place
    it's everyone but them
    on the other hand, yeah, I live a short walk to the lift, I drive my fat ass all over town all day long, and I don't give a fuck that people are renting rooms at 900 a pop and my mortgage is roughly what people pay for a room, sure as fuck I got here twenty something years ago, not my problem your late to the party and didn't have a trust fund to just go buy a place on a whim like I did
    life sucks

  8. #83
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    Truckee is a mountain town, but the nearest ski area is 20 minutes away, from the closest part of town on a good day, 5 hours plus on a bad one. The biggest employer is the hospital followed by the school district. Mail service is not daily in some parts of town because the USPS can't hire enough carriers. Safeway has to bus in checkers in the summer. The great majority of people in Truckee are not wealthy and do not live in mansions--Mc or otherwise. In addition to the above they are construction workers and tradesman, business people in non tourist related businesses, government workers, as well as the usual tourist service workers. People are not looking for single family houses or for lodging walking distance from the lifts. They are looking for any lodging at all. This is not Telluride Mountain Village. It is a real place where real people live (and unreal people like me). It is a place that survived on the railroad, logging, and ice harvesting before tourism and skiing. And it will die if solutions for housing are not found.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Do you ride the bus? Do you live in leadvegas or gyptucky?
    Everyone expects every to live somewhere else and take public transportation
    but they get to live in town and drive their car all over the place
    it's everyone but them
    on the other hand, yeah, I live a short walk to the lift, I drive my fat ass all over town all day long, and I don't give a fuck that people are renting rooms at 900 a pop and my mortgage is roughly what people pay for a room, sure as fuck I got here twenty something years ago, not my problem your late to the party and didn't have a trust fund to just go buy a place on a whim like I did
    life sucks
    Oh I get it... my point is the entitlement mindset around Summit and Eagle where new locals not only want to live in outdoor paradise on a low skill job without any greater sacrifice than living in the burbs, they also want shorter commutes than the average Coloradan, and they want tax money to facilitate it all.

    And your other post was pretty spot on!
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #85
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    I work with a lot of guys that commute from both Gypsum and LV. Gypsum not too bad but they did have a lot of commuter direction accidents last winter compared to the norm.
    Leadville is a rough one though if you go at commute times, otherwise just long. We're talking 4-5x/wk every week. Used to commute from Lakewood to Airport Rd years ago (@ 45-60 min) and it sucked but you didn't have to be on point the whole time.
    But at least all commutes get "shorter" the longer you do them.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    ... And it will die if solutions for housing are not found.
    Why will die if it doesn't grow? Honestly asking as if all the positions that the tourism industry are not filled then why will town die. Maybe there is a hard limit to growth?
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    Why will die if it doesn't grow? Honestly asking as if all the positions that the tourism industry are not filled then why will town die. Maybe there is a hard limit to growth?
    It will die if the only people living there are second, third, and fourth homeowners spending a week or two or a few weekends a year there. The town will be there, sure, but the schools will be gone, the hospital will be gone, the community will be gone.
    The town doesn't necessarily need to grow, but if it doesn't grow full time residents (I'm not talking about seasonal workers either) will be priced out of town by tech money.
    As it is, a lot of working people in Truckee are like FastFred--they have lived there a long time and didn't spend an enormous amount of money on a house, but as those people age and either move down the hill or die and their houses go on the market at many multiples of the original price who will replace them? Not plumbers and snowplow drivers.
    Up to a point second homeowners are good for a town--they pay taxes but don't use a lot of services. However, we seem to be reaching the peak of the curve and if full timers continue to be displaced the consequences will be bad.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowagriz View Post
    I think that Missoula did something like this approx 20yrs ago (or more?). I didn't live here at the time, only followed in the news. As I remember it, they allowed the older/bigger lots to divide and add a 2nd house to it. This was apparently in the older part of town that surrounds the university.
    My house in Missoula was part of that program, so almost 30 years ago. (Late 80's) A large older Victorian home had burned down, and they let use split the lot in two.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    How did you find out, just click everywhere to see who owns what?

    Also, when you click 'conservation easement', that really shows a major reason why there aren't many places to build around there.
    zoom into general area then hit the 'i' letter in the top legend to the right of the palm. Then click on a property and the 'info' will pop up. Ownership and tons of deets. Used the gis a lot as a Census taker in 2010. Went to all the boonie properties.

    And the conservation easements are often only on an acre or two to give the owner right to lock up his land. Really more like 2% buildable land.

    Annex the south 500 acres of the refuge. They won't miss it...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    The affordable housing solution is Victor/Driggs and Alpine (or other surrounding communities in other ski towns).

    People need to get over the idea of living no more than 5 minutes away from their preferred areas. The past 10 years or so I have seen a large entitlement mindset to this type of living that must be cheap and available to all and it just isn't possible.
    If this was Europe they would put a tunnel under Teton Pass.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  16. #91
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    I always used to joke that there should be one from Teton Canyon to Granite Canyon, with an elevator in the middle to the top of the Grand.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained View Post



    Annex the south 500 acres of the refuge. They won't miss it...
    Haha, imagine the Willow intersection at 5:15 if they did that!
    Besides, the Feds trump the County, every time.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    If this was Europe they would put a tunnel under Teton Pass.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I was just gonna ask where that proposal was. At various times I think the tunnel option has been brought up, even within more official forums. It would certainly make the commute faster, safer and more consistent.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  19. #94
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    There really is no good answer. They can't build housing fast enough in Missoula. Wish they'd widen more of the roads instead of removing lanes and building out curbs and shit that disappear under the snow and just lie in wait to wreck your car and make it so you can't sneak around people at intersections.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Truckee is a mountain town, but the nearest ski area is 20 minutes away, from the closest part of town on a good day, 5 hours plus on a bad one. The biggest employer is the hospital followed by the school district. Mail service is not daily in some parts of town because the USPS can't hire enough carriers. Safeway has to bus in checkers in the summer. The great majority of people in Truckee are not wealthy and do not live in mansions--Mc or otherwise. In addition to the above they are construction workers and tradesman, business people in non tourist related businesses, government workers, as well as the usual tourist service workers. People are not looking for single family houses or for lodging walking distance from the lifts. They are looking for any lodging at all. This is not Telluride Mountain Village. It is a real place where real people live (and unreal people like me). It is a place that survived on the railroad, logging, and ice harvesting before tourism and skiing. And it will die if solutions for housing are not found.
    Thanks. Didn't know that.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    It will die if the only people living there are second, third, and fourth homeowners spending a week or two or a few weekends a year there. .....
    Up to a point second homeowners are good for a town--they pay taxes but don't use a lot of services. However, we seem to be reaching the peak of the curve and if full timers continue to be displaced the consequences will be bad.
    Interesting that that can happen to a town.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    Interesting that that can happen to a town.
    Park City is most of the way there. The suburban sprawl in the Snyderville Basin north of town has double the full time population in town. Very few kids in the school district live within the city limits. The town is still thriving w/r/t hotels, bars, and resort-related businesses, but no one lives there. Full time residents under age 55 probably number fewer than 3,000 or so, tops. Meanwhile, everyone who works retail in those tourist businesses commutes in from way the fuck out in the next county. Most of them have been priced out of the haphazard sprawl in the basin where the dual income middle aged doctors and bankers and lawyers live with their kids. The town itself is a shiny little jewel, frozen in amber, populated by a small number of elderly people and visited by hordes of tourists.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    Interesting that that can happen to a town.
    happened to the monterey peninsula in the 90s (80s? earlier?) - pretty much the exact description sirshredalot gave. this isn't an unknown. it's a destiny, it's just charting the transfer of wealth from one generation to another and who'll be able to enter the community.
    Last edited by dunfree ; 09-23-2019 at 10:10 PM.

  24. #99
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    The classic example of a dead town is Venice (the one in Italy). Very very few Italians live there. If you are a tourist it doesn't seem dead of course, but then neither does Disneyland.

  25. #100
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    How to increase rental housing supply in ski towns without pissing everyone off

    Aspen’s been at the forefront of employee housing and transportation. A community really needs both and on the whole, they’ve done a pretty good job.

    Most of the mags I’ve met are in deed restricted units and some of it is really nice. The bus system works, lots of people use it.

    Better to build the infrastructure now, because it will be way more expensive later.

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