The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

[Ottime]

^^^^sweet

Just to be clear, it is surf season. Ski season begins in just about a month. And I complain about Vail cause every decision they make just kind of blows. But mostly closing down KW the first Sunday of April as their planned operation, when KW is the best place to ski in Tahoe in April and May.

[sruffian]

Slide side was fun this morning. Terrible idea but fun


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[powdork]

Nevada side was also fun today. But when I got there, everything was closed.


Deep in spots




Looking at whiskey's footprints gives you and idea of the depth


Orion’s should be ready soon. They are only opening for sightseeing on Saturday

[hercule33]

^^^Nice. Heavenly at its best, accessed by skins

[skysos]

For better or worse, the IKON pass is more geared at more hardcore skiers and as result they seem to be paying more attention to things such as early openings and late closings. It may not be like the good old days, but it’s a lot better than Vail. Vail seems to be going after families and more casual skiers and unfortunately I think that Tahoe has suffered as a result. Tahoe is not a huge tourist destination (compared to Colorado and Whistler) and the Tahoe resorts have not been a cash cow for Vail. In fact, I have noticed cost cutting at Vail resorts in Tahoe over the last 10 years and the skiing experience slowly eroding. It’s not horrible, but definitely noticeable and doesn’t bode well for those with an Epic pass. It will be interesting to see how committed Vail will be this season to opening terrain at their Tahoe resorts, especially if that opening requires a lot of snowmaking. Snowmaking ain’t cheap after all.

I think this is spot-on except for "Tahoe is not a huge tourist destination". Vail is cutting corners at Heavenly and Kirkwood and it doesn't make much sense to me. Here you have a resort that was ranked 7th in skier visits in 12/13 and one in the top 5 for snowfall in North America. How can you F that up?

Heavenly particularly needs to pay more attention to snowmaking operations and lift maintenance/upgrades. They have over 350 acres of snowmaking and only regularly use about half of it. Remember the days when they would use those fan guns all the way down East Bowl and Gunbarrel in early December? I haven't seen that in years.

With such a huge population base to draw on, they need to keep improving their product instead of just letting it fall apart or these resorts will be sold yet again. I would love to go over to the Icon pass so wouldn't mind Alterra buying them, but I think that's very unlikely -- at least for a few more years.

[old goat]

I think this is spot-on except for "Tahoe is not a huge tourist destination". Vail is cutting corners at Heavenly and Kirkwood and it doesn't make much sense to me. Here you have a resort that was ranked 7th in skier visits in 12/13 and one in the top 5 for snowfall in North America. How can you F that up?

Heavenly particularly needs to pay more attention to snowmaking operations and lift maintenance/upgrades. They have over 350 acres of snowmaking and only regularly use about half of it. Remember the days when they would use those fan guns all the way down East Bowl and Gunbarrel in early December? I haven't seen that in years.

With such a huge population base to draw on, they need to keep improving their product instead of just letting it fall apart or these resorts will be sold yet again. I would love to go over to the Icon pass so wouldn't mind Alterra buying them, but I think that's very unlikely -- at least for a few more years.

Can't make snow when it's warm.

[hercule33]

I think this is spot-on except for "Tahoe is not a huge tourist destination". Vail is cutting corners at Heavenly and Kirkwood and it doesn't make much sense to me. Here you have a resort that was ranked 7th in skier visits in 12/13 and one in the top 5 for snowfall in North America. How can you F that up?

Heavenly particularly needs to pay more attention to snowmaking operations and lift maintenance/upgrades. They have over 350 acres of snowmaking and only regularly use about half of it. Remember the days when they would use those fan guns all the way down East Bowl and Gunbarrel in early December? I haven't seen that in years.

With such a huge population base to draw on, they need to keep improving their product instead of just letting it fall apart or these resorts will be sold yet again. I would love to go over to the Icon pass so wouldn't mind Alterra buying them, but I think that's very unlikely -- at least for a few more years.

Vail is a very data driven company and they know a lot of information about the customers who visit their resorts including where they live. They can also make small changes to operations and see how they effect their bottom line. I assume that Vail’s data supports what we know here and that is that Kirkwood is not a huge tourist attraction and most Heavenly skiers don’t care that much about November skiing. In addition, compared to Colorado and Whistler, I doubt Tahoe looks particularly good on a balance sheet. That makes diverting money from Tahoe to more profitable areas an easy business decision.

[hercule33]

Can't make snow when it's warm.

No shit. But when Alpine can open Kangaroo, I find it hard to believe that Vail can’t open any terrain in Tahoe between Kirkwood, Heavenly and Northstar. Unless they choose not to do so...

[powdork]

^yes but the data shows that hotels are filling up starting monday. open then. they could use a few days even a week to hone their operations before the holiday crowds arrive in earnest on wednesday. or open this saturday instead of just opening for sightseers. that's weak sauce.

do they have to wait until a busy day just because 'data' says that the most efficient way to improve shareholder value?

[Paul Blart]

No shit. But when Alpine can open Kangaroo, I find it hard to believe that Vail can’t open any terrain in Tahoe between Kirkwood, Heavenly and Northstar. Unless they choose not to do so...

The forecast that we have now is not the same forecast that was available when alpine started blowing for kangaroo. Alterra undoubtedly took a chance getting that lift open without knowing that the weather would change favorably. Vail doesn’t play those games, they will not blow snow just to open for a week with the possibility of closing anywhere on the table. What’s worse? Opening a week late? Or opening then having to close and face starting from scratch?

[powdork]

that's an excuse for not trying. not considering the benefits of blowing snow in october like mount rose. also, not trying. giving up before a storm comes in, not trying. giving up, and then pushing it back a week instead of until when they could have it open. not trying. but it's not a secret. their entire history is one of not trying or giving a fuck.

[gnarbro365]

Vail is a billion dollar cooperation. That’s not because they suck at making money off ski areas.

No offense to anyone in this thread, but I guarantee you Vail employs a group of people who discuss all of this strategy internally. And then decide what is best for Vail’s bottom line. It’s not just Rob Katz hanging out in Broomfield saying, “eh, fuck those Tahoe people.”

[NorCalNomad]

then decide what is best for Vail’s bottom line. It’s not just Rob Katz hanging out in Broomfield saying, “eh, fuck those Tahoe people.”

I don't think those are mutually exclusive things

[bodywhomper]

Are decisions about the early mountain operations coming from “corporate” or the mountain managers and other management at each hill or both?

Also, I thought that alpine meadows and squaw were able to make snow because of an inversion in their respective micro climates.

Thinking ahead, I’ve driven 395 between mammoth and Reno on a sunny day after turkey day where over a foot fell on the highway. Super fun drive! I’ve never seen so many king cab doulies facing the wrong way on the side of the road.

[powdork]

For sure blowing snow on roo was possible due to the inversions. Not sure about up at high camp.
I didn't get a chance to see Cali trail or the top of the gondola, but it is usually further along than Orions, and that could be open tomorrow. They're most likely going to push back the Wednesday opening due to the storm too, so there's that.

[old goat]

The forecast that we have now is not the same forecast that was available when alpine started blowing for kangaroo. Alterra undoubtedly took a chance getting that lift open without knowing that the weather would change favorably. Vail doesn’t play those games, they will not blow snow just to open for a week with the possibility of closing anywhere on the table. What’s worse? Opening a week late? Or opening then having to close and face starting from scratch?

Figuring out when it's worth it to blow snow early season is only going to get harder in years to come.
Sugar Bowl started to make snow on Jerome--it's all gone now.
The little front that came through Tues night and Wed was interesting--driving 80 today the crest just south of SB was bare but looking further south things looked pretty white along the the crest.

[gone2alpine]

Also, I thought that alpine meadows and squaw were able to make snow because of an inversion in their respective micro climates.

The snow that was made allowing Kangaroo was all made during that late October cold snap, which is the same time period that Rose made snow on the Wiz. Boreal and Sugar couldn't blow during that time due to the power shutoffs. Not sure what the Epic resorts did during that time.

Nobody was making snow in November until a couple of days ago due to warmth at all elevations...well you could have made snow in the lower parts of Martis Valley/Truckee at night, but the 65° day time temps would have obliterated that effort.

[DJSapp]

I think this is spot-on except for "Tahoe is not a huge tourist destination". Vail is cutting corners at Heavenly and Kirkwood and it doesn't make much sense to me. Here you have a resort that was ranked 7th in skier visits in 12/13 and one in the top 5 for snowfall in North America. How can you F that up?

The travel associated with an epic pass is what they care about. SF to Tahoe on a Friday night is a 5+ hour trek, and returning home Sunday is the same. Or they can go to SFO and fly to anywhere in northwestern NA and be at another resort in that timeframe. The epic pass and a hudge population base plays a role here.

[powdork]

The snow that was made allowing Kangaroo was all made during that late October cold snap, which is the same time period that Rose made snow on the Wiz. Boreal and Sugar couldn't blow during that time due to the power shutoffs. Not sure what the Epic resorts did during that time.

Thanks for the info. Evidently Vail was late to the party as they did start to blow snow but never really got enough to last through the inversions. they did still have the rocks covered up between dipper and comet lifts but thats about all that lasted at least on the NV side.

[bodywhomper]

Thanks for the details about snowmaking. Crazy warm november so far. Looking forward to skiing on natural snow soon!

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[dookeyXXX]

In other news word on the slopes is that Mt. Rose Ski Tahoe is now chargingm$90 for a ticket. This is for the same beginner terrain that they have been charging $20 for.
I am no economist, but that's like a 450% price hike without any significantly new terrain added...

[splat]

Splat - that powder device says 4+, you're not old enough to use it...

Prolly gonna need an assist. From Ullr.

[splat]

There's some real weather gambling when the snow is scarce and resorts have to make enough to ski because as large commercial customers there's an electrical cost calculation in how much snow you need to make and the probability of a storm resolving all of it.
This is from 20 years ago but, as I recall, the resorts are billed on their electricity based on their peak load, the highest number they hit annually, because the utility uses that number to set next years rates for the whole year. This is because the utility guarantees that much power will be available next year and, if they exceed it cause they need it, they pay through the nose for anything beyond that number. I've actually heard utility guys beaming with joy at how much money those snow guns generate.

[powdork]

I doubt it is as bad any more. I know I hardly ever notice the lights dim in town when the snow guns go on anymore. The newer guns are around 15 times (or more) as efficient as the standard older styles.
https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/...pers/2-175.pdf

[TurxSki]

History of Alpine/Squaw re-issued.
I hadn't heard of it b4.
https://www.sierrasun.com/sports/its...lpine-meadows/

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