The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

[NorCalNomad]

I don't own or intend to own a snowmobile. But I am in the Rose BC all the time, and I genuinely don't get the anti-snowmobile thing. I understand that not everybody shares my sensibilities, but the purported user conflict seems limited to a small minority who are especially sensitive to the minor irritation of sometimes sharing proximate space with others. "I want a pure wilderness experience within a 20-minute drive of Reno and immediately off of Tahoe's most popular trailhead, and the distant sound of a braap over the noise of 431 traffic utterly shatters that experience." Based on my (admittedly) anecdotal observation, the rest of us seem to coexist just fine. YMMV.

This is exactly my thoughts. If you want a completely quiet environment you better head to the buttes or the eastside (and a few spots off 88). It's like when the Sierra Club fights against the hook and bullet crowd or mountain bikers. You're just creating enemies, not allies in protecting the larger wilderness/ environment.

Also that S Gaffney clip was rad.

[TurxSki]

I wasn't really feeling all that old...that is, until I read that. I'm going to go shopping for walkers.

Excellent vid. Thanx.
50 is old&wrinkly eh?
Some peeps on here (ahem) didn't even begin skiing until they were 50yrs old!
...So there is that.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using TGR Forums mobile app

[gnarbro365]

January 2018

[Quadzilla]

You're not a nutcase at all. Sorry you almost got nailed by a kid, I remember reading your recount on the earn your turns forum. That sucks, I'd have been livid too. I've been hit by skiers and had my car hit by kamikaze bullet children flying from parents with no aim. That's carelessness, not an inherent problem with the activity.

It's not too much to ask people to go slow in crowded areas. It's common sense, and it's also what most snowmobilers already do, as well as just outright stay away from that sledding hill when it's crowded. I shot some video of that area last year around christmas to show someone both the chaos, but that also when there are tons of families around there sledding, snowmobilers pretty much just avoid it completely. These are physicians, pilots, carpenters, servers, graphic designers, land use planners that happen to own sleds......you know.....human beings. They have eyes, and lots of them have kids. The problem is everyone envisions the most crowded holiday weekend they've seen, but an outright ban affects the dad giving his kid some sled laps on his snowboard on a Tuesday afternoon in April on that same hill when they're literally the only ones up there. "don't be a dick" signs. That makes more sense than the umpteenth ban on snowmobiling.



Come on man.

Attachment 299610

Bob via snowlands submitted a prescoping document that would entirely close off the sled skiing in blackwood canyon, literally the only publicly available snowmobile staging area on the west shore. It's phrased as keeping sleds on the road and out of the meadows, but that would be the effect. He also recommended entirely eliminating all snowmobile access on Mt Rose, and stretch an additional gigantic closure all the way over to brockway. That's spooner summit to freakin brockway closed.

If that's what you're into, that's fine. But be straight about it. Maybe you just don't know what Bob's actual 'fight' is?

Straight about what? I think what I said is pretty clear, Don't support Snowlands and never did as I don't believe in their principles. So to be more accurate, I do know Bob and when he lived in Reno we spent a lot of time together years ago light touring and some social couples thing as well as biking. I knew him when he first got involved with Snowland and I was clear from the getgo that I wasn't interested and to be honest we never talked about snowland or snowmobiles after that as he knew that I wasn't going take the bait. However, he did ask me to write a letter(email) to FS and I did stating my issues which is like I stated here speed limit near the TH. I think I also stated in that email that I wasn't anti snow machine. I don't have a copy as it was a while ago and I change my server and it is gone. Bob is a Lawyer and his passion is argument and banter so the Snowlands thing is most certainly in his wheelhouse. I really think, knowing Bob this is his reason for involvement more that hatred of snowmobiles. I also know Gail as we taught together for several years at the same school and I knew her when I was doing Sierra Club ski touring years ago. Gail is a founder of Snowlands and her passion, she also knows that I am not interested and the few times I have seen her in recent and she puts the bait out there I always say your kicking a dead horse. My old ski partner, Ed Willis had the same perspective as me and he was a fixture up there and had many skiers he toured with who felt the same. So, bottomline for me, I am not part of the fight, it is not my nature, I avoid conflict.

As far as motors, I have heli skied, snow cat skied and have gone plenty of times with my neighbor pulling me up behind his machine. I have poach Mt. Rose ski resort with a machine after season too. I ride with people on Ebikes too and may get one in the future. So, not antimotor kinda of guy, If I lived in a place where there was good access and remote then maybe. But, I like simple and none of this is simple.

Anyway, this is me.

[powdork]

Public comments can be added here https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...?Project=47342

This is in regards to closing the Hellhole area to snowmobiles. I am against this. I am not a snowmobiler but a resident in the Oneidas/Fountainplace area that regularly accesses Fountainplace via the snowmobile tracks. Many, many of us are able to walk our dogs daily on Oneidas because of the snowmobile tracks. People hiking use the snowmobile tracks. All the people getting xmas trees just beyond (hopefully) my back yard are able to do so because of the snowmobile traffic.
Additionally, I would be interested in learning how banning snowmobiles from the area would help the mountain yellow legged frog. By the time the snowpack starts to melt up there a snowmobile would have to travel miles over bare ground to gain access.
In short, your well intended but seemingly misguided attempts to help the frog are unnecessarily hurting one particular user while also indirectly hurting several other groups that have come to rely on said group.

[Bozo T. Clown]

All the positive stuff about sleds is great. But politics in California in 2019 means that you'd need to get biologists on your side before dissing the frog. You don't know who you're messing with. The frog is a big big star:

For Immediate Release, October 9, 2019
California Agency Recommends Protecting Yellow-legged Frog Under State’s Endangered Species Act
https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/ne...ct-2019-10-09/



U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service rescuing frogs by heli
Rescue for Recovery
http://www.sfzoo.org/conservation/si...n-program.html

Recovering the Endangered Mountain Yellow-legged Frog in the Sierra Nevada
https://tahoe.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk4286/files/inline-files/Frogs.pdf


Saving the Sierra Nevada’s Yellow-Legged Frog
https://earthjustice.org/our_work/cases/2003/mountain-yellow-legged-frog-esa-protection

After decades of decline, could Sierra’s frogs recover?
https://wildlife.org/tag/sierra-neva...w-legged-frog/

Meet the ‘rock star’ frog breeder vying to save Southern California’s rarest amphibian
https://www.latimes.com/environment/...oo-ian-recchio

Scientists try to save this frog species from being wiped out by fungus
https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-...ped-out-fungus

Scientists: Endangered Sierra Nevada yellow-legged frog rebounding in Yosemite Park
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scienti...yosemite-park/

Good luck.

[NorCalNomad]

The sled hill will run deep with the blood of children!!!!!!

That place could use some general 'don't be an idiot' signs for sure. For everything.

Too bad you can't order JUST the orange sticker from AvE

[kidwoo]

That painful dying one is pretty legit too.

Who sells those?

[AKbruin]

I haven't done any empirical studies, but I believe sledding at Rose/Tahoe Meadows is about the most dangerous activity one can do in Tahoe excluding (maybe) base jumping. Several dozen people weighing between 30 and 300 lbs. fly down an icy hill with zero control while others distractedly walk and/or stand around the slide path like bowling pins. Oh, and sometimes, conditions allow the sledders to fly off a sizable snowbank and into oncoming traffic. I have seen many an ambulance in the Meadows.

Incidentally, I took the kids for a hike on Mt. Rose on Saturday to watch the sunset from the summit, which was pretty cool. It was cold as hell, but we bundled up.

[Wobby]

I don't own or intend to own a snowmobile. But I am in the Rose BC all the time, and I genuinely don't get the anti-snowmobile thing. I understand that not everybody shares my sensibilities, but the purported user conflict seems limited to a small minority who are especially sensitive to the minor irritation of sometimes sharing proximate space with others. "I want a pure wilderness experience within a 20-minute drive of Reno and immediately off of Tahoe's most popular trailhead, and the distant sound of a braap over the noise of 431 traffic utterly shatters that experience." Based on my (admittedly) anecdotal observation, the rest of us seem to coexist just fine. YMMV.

I think the major thing about this proposal is in regards to Chickadee Ridge/the Meadows. That is absolutely the #1 snowshoeing spot for people from Reno, and is well known for its friendly birds (which will eat right out of your hand supposedly). Currently, it is essentially a winter wilderness -especially for people who basically never go outside in the colder months.

Would braaping across the region bother the birds and snowshoers? I feel like the answer is almost certainly YES, as a conflict of interest. Snowmobiles will almost certainly disturb the wildlife and "relaxing lake views" that those users seek. As backcountry skiers we may not care about that zone, but I guarantee that a majority of the non-action sports users do really care. And this is their spot.

Many many many people with virtually no experience visit that area every year, and while many of them may not be consistent or repeat users, I am certain that the conflict comes from a long list of users.

[kidwoo]

Snowmobiles will almost certainly disturb the wildlife and "relaxing lake views" that those users seek.

"will" disturb.......

It's already been open for decades. Any bird you or anyone else has seen in that area still exists in the presence of a long time open snowmobile area. Have you seen all the timber clearing that's gone on there the last two years? I'd bet literally cutting down trees where the birds live is a bigger issue of disturbance.

That particular setting (wooded, wind shielded, lake views) exists right across the street in the area surrounding incline lake in an existing non-motorized area. And the non-motorized acreage just goes on and on from there. I sure you've skinned through there at some point, it's a good amount of real estate, certainly as much as the area on chickadee where most of the snowshoeing goes on, which is NOT that giant area they want to make alternating days. There's also literally everything east of the pass on the Hunboldt-Toiyabe closed already, much of it similar terrain sans the lake views.

So no, what's on chickadee ridge is not entirely unique for snowshoeing. But it is unique for snowmobiles because that's the only low angle wooded setting up there like that they can go. But instead of educating people about that similar setting across the street and elsewhere......everyone else just has to leave? Snowlands says they promote human powered recreation. You ever see a map on a kiosk up there highlighting incline lake or galena creek from them? Not much promotion going on to tell people where else they can go.

The LTBMU seems to at least be considering the concept of fairness and equity. Is chickadee important enough that the entire area be closed but in exchange for the entire incline lake and incline peak parcels being open to sleds? Because that actually makes sense from a mangement perspective. Just one contiguous open area for snowmobiles up there with easily defined boundaries on ridges. It would be a lot easier to understand for everyone, instead of that staggered left/right/left/right stuff that goes on up there now, and it's already right by the snowmobile parking.

[gone2alpine]

Alright kids, I made you your own god damn thread to argue about snowmobile use in Tahoe. We're sick of scrolling through that shit.

Bullish on Snowmobiles in Tahoe

And now, here's some stoke from last season...

[gnarbro365]

^^lol^^

[AKbruin]

Alright kids, I made you your own god damn thread to argue about snowmobile use in Tahoe. We're sick of scrolling through that shit.

Meh. It's a civil discussion on a local marginally ski-related issue, and it's October.

But, hey, let's keep the thread on track. Here's what I want to know:

(1) What are people's opinions on traffic problems in Tahoe?

(2) I think [insert resort's name]'s terrain opening policy is dumb. Debate me!

(3) Have we reached a critical mass in popular usage such that "Sierras" [plural] is acceptable?

(4) Where should I go for bootfitting again?

(5) Stuff is happening at Squaw and Alpine. It's so crazy! Let's talk about it at length.

(6) I'm an east coaster making his first trip to Tahoe in February. What resorts should I ski, what runs should I ski, what skis should I ski, and what length of skis should I ski? Also, are there any bootfitters in Tahoe? THX.

(7) Tahoe backcountry is so crowded. When I invented backcountry skiing many decades ago, things were so much better, and I think that it's the Internet's fault that things have changed. Let's argue about it.

[powdork]

3) No. Absolutely not. Never. I'll fight you!!!

[kidwoo]

powdork skis in the sierraS

in jeanS

[muted]

That painful dying one is pretty legit too.

Who sells those?

About 15 years ago I was able to order a custom one online, with a similar ridiculous statement on it. It’s expensive though with small orders, and sorry I don’t remember where I ordered it from. I’m guessing custom orders are common though if ya want one bad enough - it can happen.

Huckasoreknee, you are an inspiration for all us #raddads to over-confidentially destroy ourselves thinking if you can do it at 50, we can too! Thanks for the hospital bills, and I’m looking forward to your 60 Project.

[gone2alpine]

(1) What are people's opinions on traffic problems in Tahoe? Worser and worser

(2) I think [insert resort's name]'s terrain opening policy is dumb. Debate me! I can't believe that Mount Rose did not open the Chutes for opening day!

(3) Have we reached a critical mass in popular usage such that "Sierras" [plural] is acceptable? Never

(4) Where should I go for bootfitting again? Wait, Cosmo moved?

(5) Stuff is happening at Squaw and Alpine. It's so crazy! Let's talk about it at length. Where is that KSL Bitch thread?

(6) I'm an east coaster making his first trip to Tahoe in February. What resorts should I ski, what runs should I ski, what skis should I ski, and what length of skis should I ski? Also, are there any bootfitters in Tahoe? THX. Definitely bring the longest and skinniest skis you can fit in your ski bag. I heard Big 5 in Reno has a great boot fitter this year.

(7) Tahoe backcountry is so crowded. When I invented backcountry skiing many decades ago, things were so much better, and I think that it's the Internet's fault that things have changed. Let's argue about it.#AOLkilledskiing

(8) Who has the best post-ski burgers/tacos/sushi in Tahoe?

(9) Your STR is destroying my neighborhood

[2ski2fish4ever]

my son closing day at Squaw,hopefully i can get out there this year to ski with him

[skier666]

Do I need chains to get over the pass?

[Wobby]

Ok yeah I was misinformed. The new snowmo area would just be Incline Lake from the highway to the creek bottom. Who cares. Nice to not get buzzed by sleds while putting on skins there, but really -big whoop.

Thats in theory, assuming rules get followed. I will be pissed if I start finding snowmo tracks up the mountain. Have had my lines poached by sledders before (in a Wilderness no less), and it wasn't cool. Luckily people around Mt Rose have always seemed respectful -despite the confusing boundaries.



Dark Green = Currently Open to sleds
Light Green = Not Open
Yellow/Pink = Alternating days (currently open)
Pink = Currently Open, will be closed

[dookeyXXX]

Too bad you can't order JUST the orange sticker from AvE

About 15 years ago I was able to order a custom one online, with a similar ridiculous statement on it. It’s expensive though with small orders, and sorry I don’t remember where I ordered it from. I’m guessing custom orders are common though if ya want one bad enough - it can happen.

You could design your own and then support local biz in the process by having them press 'em up:

THE STICKER GUY (in Reno):
https://stickerguy.com/about_us/

[kidwoo]

[TahoeJ]

(1) What are people's opinions on traffic problems in Tahoe? Worser and worser

(2) I think [insert resort's name]'s terrain opening policy is dumb. Debate me! I can't believe that Mount Rose did not open the Chutes for opening day!

(3) Have we reached a critical mass in popular usage such that "Sierras" [plural] is acceptable? Never

(4) Where should I go for bootfitting again? Wait, Cosmo moved?

(5) Stuff is happening at Squaw and Alpine. It's so crazy! Let's talk about it at length. Where is that KSL Bitch thread?

(6) I'm an east coaster making his first trip to Tahoe in February. What resorts should I ski, what runs should I ski, what skis should I ski, and what length of skis should I ski? Also, are there any bootfitters in Tahoe? THX. Definitely bring the longest and skinniest skis you can fit in your ski bag. I heard Big 5 in Reno has a great boot fitter this year.

(7) Tahoe backcountry is so crowded. When I invented backcountry skiing many decades ago, things were so much better, and I think that it's the Internet's fault that things have changed. Let's argue about it.#AOLkilledskiing

(8) Who has the best post-ski burgers/tacos/sushi in Tahoe?

(9) Your STR is destroying my neighborhood

Haha, well done. I hope we get some snow in the Sierras. ;-)

(that was painful to type, the S on the end bugs me too, maybe just not as much as PowDork).

[Wobby]

Meh, Kidwoo. I had a lot more respect for snowmobilers last year before one particular instance.

I had been dreaming of hitting a line for years, thats located in the Ruby Mountain Wilderness (that means no motorized vehicles of any kind). We drove out there to find it in perfect condition: nice looking POW, stable, untouched. Made the call to give it a go. About 30 minutes into the approach, I was looking up and noticed a small speck zooming down the slope tracking it out -followed by several others. From a distance I was puzzled, until I realized that I was watching several snowmobilers completely track out and destroy the snow on that dreamline, where they aren't even supposed to recreate.

Unfortunately, the slow nature of skinning meant that I never even got to see or talk to the snow machine crew. They completely tracked it out and were on to the next destination in a matter of minutes, while we merely kept stepping forward and watched in disbelief. I definitely don't have a lot of trust for motorized users staying within boundaries anymore, and it was a feeling of helplessness that I've never felt before.

No, I'd rather not share a recreation area with snow machines.