The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

[NakedShorts]

https://youtu.be/lGC5sGdz4kg

Apparently actual experts think lockdowns and flattening the curve are actually going to kill more people. Children should be socializing and people need to be outside, NOT indoors.

He's only a 20 year professor of epidemiology and biostatistics.

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B = You Read Marty's Blog?

[Paul Blart]

since you don't seem to get it I'll make it very fucking clear. keep posting on your ig all you want. if you keep posting here i pull the plug on this entire thread. I'll send this via pm as well

Just do us all a favor and nuke it already

[kidwoo]

Just do us all a favor and nuke it already

2nd

I'll paypal you 100 bucks PD

[old goat]

since you don't seem to get it I'll make it very fucking clear. keep posting on your ig all you want. if you keep posting here i pull the plug on this entire thread. I'll send this via pm as well

I'm sure it's tempting but someone will just start the 20-21 thread. It's not like no one has ever jumped the gun. I'll be ready though. Starting leg blasters now--gotta get some decent exercise.

[bodywhomper]

Nevada County Sheriff SAR event finding a lost skier on Saturday (from the SAR FB page)

Saturday afternoon the Nevada County Sheriff's Office received a call of a back-country skier who was lost in the high-country of Nevada County, northeast of Castle Peak. With a severe winter storm closing in, NCSSAR answered the call and began search operations from the incident command post at Boreal Ski Resort

Cellphone contact with the subject was established, and his location was known to be northwest of Frog Lake. Snowmobiles were initially deployed, but found the dense tree cover and the steep chasms caused by open streams too much to overcome.

A Nordic rescue team deployed from Donner Pass rest area, and climbed up over the 8,600' pass in whiteout and semi-whiteout conditions to reach the subject on the far side at 8,200'. As the storm hit, the avalanche conditions greatly increased. The rescue team witnessed two avalanches, and a team member was caught in a third small slab avalanche he triggered. Thankfully, the searcher was unharmed.

After locating the subject, the Nordic team had to retrace their tracks to avoid even higher risk avalanche areas. All teams and the subject made it safely out in the middle of the night.

This incident is stark reminder of what is at risk when venturing into the back-country right before a winter storm. If it was not for the great skill, unwavering dedication, and heroism of the teams who answered the call that night, this would have a different ending.

#staysafe
#bewise
#stayathome
#soothersmaylive

[Truckee Joe]

Thanks for not posting pics

No pics from today. Skiing sucks anyways why do we even do it? I would rather just bitch about a virus so I don’t have to go to the rat flue thread.

[Powcruzer]

‘Regardless of your concerns’. I really wish you hadn’t posted this scenario since it really pisses me off and there’s nothing I can do about. But good on ya for pushing back. Selfish fucks.

To follow up,
Email sent to homeowners with links to county and town requests to SIP and not travel here. Stated our personal case as residents.

Response as expected, to paraphrase:

"Thankyou for your informative email, we put a lot of thought into our decision, and will be having our son come out to stay at the house regardless of your concerns"

Basically a full "fuck you we'll do what we damn well please to get our kid out of NY"

[heckacali]

‘Regardless of your concerns’. I really wish you hadn’t posted this scenario since it really pisses me off and there’s nothing I can do about. But good on ya for pushing back. Selfish fucks.

Sorry.
Feel free to violate the 6' rule briefly to throat punch any 20 somethings in Safeway with a thick NY accent. Although they may not have an accent as they are from the bay area, just look for the shopping cart full of white claw.

[Wobby]

If you're going to discuss the collateral damage of sheltering in place, you also have to consider the same for all of the people that would lose loved ones if we let this thing spread in mass. A death in the family carries many of the same consequences (depression, etc.).

Thats very very true. I guess that there just isn't really any good solution. This pandemic just sucks period, and it's going to take a lot of mental fortitude from all fronts to make it out the other side.

I don't think we'll really know what the best course of action was/could have been until its all said and done. Even then we won't necessarily know -because we (hopefully) won't get to repeat the experiment again. There is no "control" for this one.

Last thought -flattening the curve is extremely challenging for a number of reasons. Apart from the obvious, the thing I think about most is the doubt people might have once it starts working. If we are effective at flattening the curve, then we won't see dramatic effects from the virus, and people will think that we are working super hard for something thats not that bad. On the other hand...once we abandon that flattening and see how bad it can be, people may change their minds but it would probably be too late to change the overall virus's trajectory in society.

Stay safe and sane guys. And if you have the opportunity to get out to the trailhead -its pretty decent right now. Snowpack seemed to be consolidating a little bit based on observations yesterday, but still best to keep it mellow (of course).

[heckacali]

.

Last thought -flattening the curve is extremely challenging for a number of reasons. Apart from the obvious, the thing I think about most is the doubt people might have once it starts working. If we are effective at flattening the curve, then we won't see dramatic effects from the virus, and people will think that we are working super hard for something thats not that bad. On the other hand...once we abandon that flattening and see how bad it can be, people may change their minds but it would probably be too late to change the overall virus's trajectory in society.
.

I've been saying this from the beginning and you are already hearing it here and from a certain major media outlet and other talking heads who bash the media.
Everything is spun.

[gimpy]

why is it that the only assholes i ever run into when touring are 20-something year olds males?

[Blaster]

FWIW. If you aren't skiing you may as well look at snow data.

Peak snow water equivalent and snow pack depth (harder to graph) for most of the regional sensors.

The coverage from early season december storms helped this season punch above its weight relative to total precip amounts.

Thoughts?

[CC_skier]

FWIW. If you aren't skiing you may as well look at snow data.

Peak snow water equivalent and snow pack depth (harder to graph) for most of the regional sensors.

The coverage from early season december storms helped this season punch above its weight relative to total precip amounts.

Thoughts?

I feel like March was way more important than those early season storms we got. Sure, those early season storms put us above the average for that time of year, but it wasn’t until March that we saw the snowpack really be saved by big storms. Also, I think pretty much all storms up until this most recent one had a pretty low water:snow ratio. Made for all-time skiing, but really hurt the SWE totals. This storm was a little bit more wet, typical Sierra snow. Even tho it was small, still a welcome amount of water.


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[CC_skier]

Winters like this are always a little frustrating to me. It’s good that we have a healthy water supply in good years, but it sure does lull water managers and users into a state of content (“water for everybody!”). How short memories we have from devastating drought in the recent past. Ah well, guess we can enjoy the snow for now



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[CC_skier]

why is it that the only assholes i ever run into when touring are 20-something year olds males?

They got somethin to prove. They’re gonna show you how it’s done, gimpy. Watch em just send it and huck this cliff


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[2_1_3]

It’s good that we have a healthy water supply in good years, but it sure does lull water managers and users into a state of content (“water for everybody!”). How short memories we have from devastating drought in the recent past.

The users, yes for sure and to the horrifying point that if it rains 0.05" in Anaheim the statewide/westwide (can't forget CO river water deliveries!) drought is over.

The majority of managers, this most certainly is not the case (thankfully!). The crux is western water law, among many other challenges (Light Ranger to the white courtesy phone!), but the managers are scrambling with how to deal with achieving their multiple goals in what is looking like an increasingly variable hydroclimate. The recent drought years have been beneficial in regards to accelerating the path towards a more climate resilient state of affairs, but its especially tough when caught in a web of rules written in a very different time! I can send you some literature on the matter if you'd like to see some examples from either side of the Sierra Nevada.

Edit to elaborate: I previously had the same perception as you (HJ5) regarding managers, but after working with many of those at the top of the game for many years now, I am relieved to see how they are proactively working towards improving the situation for everyone. Of course, there are a few outliers

Re: snowpack
For higher elevation locations, I praise Jah for December, which kept a lot of terrain rocking through the dry spell and gave us our bonus spring season. March was $$$ for saving the second half of the season for sure in terms of a bunch of insanely good pow skiing after the midwinter drought and to fill in things that were getting sharky.

I think this on-going event will really benefit the corn harvest but also is helping re-spackle some steeper and rockier things. Not that now is the best time to skitter around on steep rocky lines lol as much as I would love to donate some p-tex to a few favorite areas on KT and elsewhere.

One key thing to note in the SWE/PPT graphic is that our % of normal SWE will roar upwards as we are in the climatological melt season. Depending on what happens with humidity and cloud cover when the ridge rebuilds, that curve will decline very slowly (% of normal will go up) or real quick (% of normal will fall).

Last year was actually an interesting situation around early May as well, things were getting pretty suncupped and not freezing and we were thinking shit! here goes this great snowpack! Then the amazing mid/late May week happened and fully reset everything.

[CC_skier]

The users, yes for sure and to the horrifying point that if it rains 0.05" in Anaheim the statewide/westwide (can't forget CO river water deliveries!) drought is over.

The majority of managers, this most certainly is not the case (thankfully!). The crux is western water law, among many other challenges (Light Ranger to the white courtesy phone!), but the managers are scrambling with how to deal with achieving their multiple goals in what is looking like an increasingly variable hydroclimate. The recent drought years have been beneficial in regards to accelerating the path towards a more climate resilient state of affairs, but its especially tough when caught in a web of rules written in a very different time! I can send you some literature on the matter if you'd like to see some examples from either side of the Sierra Nevada.

Water rights are the bane of any water managers existence. I didn't mean to suggest that water managers aren't concerned about water shortages, rather that when they talk about these issues to the public it seems like it's usually in an incredibly optimistic tone. Which makes sense, since ranchers, cities, industrial farms, etc. etc. all have legit claims to use "their" water and the water managers are expected to fulfill everyone's demands. Kind of off-topic (but related to webs of rules), but there's an argument that the reintroduction of beavers to their historic range in the Sierra can help to store water if/when the snow we now have increasingly turns to rain and/or we see longer/more frequent drought. In Nevada, some ranchers have been fighting these restoration projects because they claim the beavers violate their water rights. Go figure. I know the whole water law thing runs way, way deeper than I can imagine... yeah pm me with what you have!

Regarding snowpack, Mt Rose SNOTEL precip accumulation and SWE are really only a couple inches apart. I know these are two different SNOTEL sites, but the one we're talking about are like 20 inches apart. Am I missing something?

[CC_skier]

This is a snowpack/water law analysis thread now

[old goat]

This is a snowpack/water law analysis thread now

Something wrong with that?

[Wobby]

Regarding snowpack, Mt Rose SNOTEL precip accumulation and SWE are really only a couple inches apart. I know these are two different SNOTEL sites, but the one we're talking about are like 20 inches apart. Am I missing something?

Elevation is everything. At Mt. Rose the majority of precipitation since October 1st has been snow. At the site posted above (elev. 6,894), it clearly rains a lot more than it does up at 8,800 ft.

In terms of snowpack, late-season snowfalls are much better for summer water supplies than having that same quantity of snow early in the year. I am stoked we got these last couple storms. 3 weeks ago we were ramping up to prepare for drought. Now I can work from home with less sense of urgency.

B -thanks for the in depth analysis. Very true points, and appreciate you standing up for us decision makers!

[CC_skier]

Elevation is everything. At Mt. Rose the majority of precipitation since October 1st has been snow. At the site posted above (elev. 6,894), it clearly rains a lot more than it does up at 8,800 ft.

In terms of snowpack, late-season snowfalls are much better for summer water supplies than having that same quantity of snow early in the year. I am stoked we got these last couple storms. 3 weeks ago we were ramping up to prepare for drought. Now I can work from home with less sense of urgency.

B -thanks for the in depth analysis. Very true points, and appreciate you standing up for us decision makers!

Duh. Looked at that more as soon as I asked, unnecessary question. Thanks for answering anyways! I guess I was surprised to see that relatively high precip accumulation for this year, since a lot of these storms have been colder and w/ more snow, or so I thought. Super stoked to have this snow too, summer field visits will hopefully be more interesting than they would have been otherwise.


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[CC_skier]

Something wrong with that?

On the contrary


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[2_1_3]

Haha, if we talk about snow, maybe PD won't nuke the thread!

Water rights are the bane of any water managers existence.

Facts!

Here's a link to a few papers from the Carson-Truckee watersheds led by Kelley Sterle:

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/9/10/768
https://ascelibrary.org/doi/abs/10.1...3-5452.0001136
https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/BAMS-D-18-0031.1

Regarding snowpack, Mt Rose SNOTEL precip accumulation and SWE are really only a couple inches apart. I know these are two different SNOTEL sites, but the one we're talking about are like 20 inches apart. Am I missing something?

I think what you are seeing are the effects of elevation and snow climate. During the midwinter dry spell, CSSL lost snowpack so the precip, which keeps accumulating, diverged from SWE. Since SWE is just precip stored as snow, you can't really make up this gap once it occurs, except by gauge overcatch due to wind (we see this a lot at Leavitt Lake by Sonora Pass). Mt Rose SNOTEL, being higher, colder and more inland (the Sierra Nevada crest prevents the warmer, more moist maritime airmasses from doing their thing helping to melt snow) remained stable through this period. So SWE and PPT tracked together, whereas at CSSL they diverged, creating the gap you pointed out. The same happened during the weaker early-mid March storms, where a little precip and a little swe occurred, but then melting took place at the lower, warmer CSSL and not (or less so) at Rose. Though slight, this does cumulatively drive a bigger difference between SWE and PPT in addition to the big gap that developed during Feb/Mar.

You can also think of this difference in terms of water NOT stored in the snowpack, which is important because it went somewhere! Either to groundwater recharge, streamflow, sublimation, evapotranspiration, etc., and is not going to flow into your reservoir or stream during the summer when you want it to, though it may help make runoff more efficient in some cases.

These two stations, and also when you include Truckee or Tahoe City's SNOTEL, make for great longitudinal case studies of how mountain hydroclimate varies with elevation, distance from the crest (think rain shadow effects), and snow climate.

[2_1_3]

appreciate you standing up for us decision makers!

Of course! Managers and decision makers have a crazy tough job. Here's another paper, this one from Rebecca Morss, that you guys might like that opened my eyes to the many challenges that we often forget while locked away in the ivory tower:
https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs...AMS-86-11-1593

A powerful excerpt:

"Practitioners in flood-risk estimation and management make decisions in complex settings characterized by significant change and uncertainty. They also operate under regulatory, institutional, political, resource, and other constraints that limit their capacity to use new scientific information. Coupled with the inherent uncertainty in the risk of extreme events, these factors led many of those with whom we spoke to prioritize other concerns over more sophisticated scientific information about flood risk, particularly when they could not readily see the feasibility or value of incorporating new or more detailed scientific information into their existing routines."


And your thesis should probably get added into the list of Kelley's works I listed!

[powdork]

Haha, if we talk about snow, maybe PD won't nuke the thread!

If you could refer to it as 'partially hydrogenated water solids' that'd be great. ;-)