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  1. #3126
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    Quote Originally Posted by teledad View Post
    Jackass is legal now FWIW:

    See meter man's post.




    I guess we're not going to get the 5 millisecond period at the end of sept/beginning of Nov that's all we have as a shoulder season anymore with kids not going back to school.

    There are two parking lots on carson pass, both pretty damn small. You guys feelin my earlier comments about being able to build out a little more yet? Just giving up and saying we have a big population so we just have to throw our hands up, there's nothing we can do, isn't going to help. Between there, emerald bay and the east shore, I wonder how many auto accidents we'll be at this year. Involving pedestrians too.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  2. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I guess it's not exactly a secret. https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/ar...hpdigest_local
    I don't expect any of this crowding to go away after the pandemic does. There are 40,000,000 people in California.
    I expect people will spread out more and travel more broadly post-pandemic, but I guess we’ll have to see.

    The closing of yankee Jim’s will result additional crowding of other areas. Nevada County and SYRCL are now on board with PSAs about the problems on the South Yuba. TV news piece coming out, too. Those river crossings will be more challenging to manage compared to Yankee Jim’s.

  3. #3128
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I guess it's not exactly a secret. https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/ar...hpdigest_local
    I don't expect any of this crowding to go away after the pandemic does. There are 40,000,000 people in California.
    I feel like we need a plague.

    O wait...


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  4. #3129
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    ^ We suckered 'em all here, they're soaking in it like palmolive.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  5. #3130
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    More no parking signs, more parking enforcement is one way to control overuse of the trails.
    Around here the cops have pretty much stopped any speeding enforcement, bike trail parking enforcement, camping enforcement--part of the general fuck you to the public in the wake of BLM. No cop boat on the water either. Maybe we need to form vigilance committees. Truckee was famous for its vigilance committee--the 601--whose main successes seemed to be driving Chinese people out of town and shooting one of their own members by mistake.

  6. #3131
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    Weren’t Covid restrictions going to heal the earth due to fewer frantic humans running around and messing shit up. Ain’t happening.
    Last edited by Powcruzer; 07-25-2020 at 11:31 PM.

  7. #3132
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    Questions for kidwoo and others who want more, bike-accessible trails. Can you identify one specific place where you would like a trail built? Who owns the land? What steps have you taken to get the trail built? Have you considered donating to the Truckee Donner Land Trust, which is the organization around here that buys private land and either manages it or donates it to a govt org, and builds trails (like the multi-use trail up Johnson Canyon). Look at the purchases they have made in recent years and the lands they have opened to the public--Euer and Carpenter Valleys purchases for instance. Just don't count on the FS or the State Parks or any other govt body to do it--their hands are full and pockets empty.

    Expanding parking at existing trail heads is a bad idea. Right now limiting parking is the only way to keep the crowds on the trails to a (barely) tolerable level. I have no problem with creating new trails with parking where there are none; most desirable sites are already taken though, but I'm sure there are places--identify them. As far as managing existing resources--we either limit access by parking restrictions or by requiring permits with quotas, or we tolerate the crowds. Spreading people out will require money and labor--if you are advocating for that you need to be prepared to spend one or the other or both.

    One thing I know for sure--telling people to stay away won't work.

    Maybe some day there will be a progressive enough administration to do what Roosevelt and the CCC did to build trails during the Depression. I'm not holding my breath. Ambitious public works of any kind seem to be beyond the capabilities of this nation now and probably forever.

  8. #3133
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    The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

    Tahoe Donner HOA and TD Land Trust have been doing great work over the last several years (I’m a member of the former and have donated to the latter). Tons of new trails, many of which have yet to be widely discovered. It’s easy to bitch about how it could be better but IMO the progress lately on the North/West side of the lake has been impressive, especially compared to just about anywhere else in California.

    It’s not that difficult to avoid the crowds still, even on the weekends. The majority of people are funneling to the same predictable places.

    Since we are on the topic, does anyone know when they plan to break ground on the bike path connecting Truckee to Squaw?
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  9. #3134
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    Wink

    Ummm ..... after were 100% covid free?

  10. #3135
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    Plenty of other trail work and construction going on right now. Have you not noticed?
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  11. #3136
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB View Post
    Ummm ..... after were 100% covid free?
    covid isn't keeping them from widening old 40 to put in a bike path.

  12. #3137
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    TDLT/TrucTrails working on the "Pines to Mines" trail and the Pyramid to Taho trail is open. New, long distance, stuff. Too hard for most of the punters though, Oh well .. we need easy trails.

  13. #3138
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    Frickin' software crapfest ....... emojis are now challenging. Winky should have been at the end of my sentence, not the line above. As if we'll ever be 100% covid free .....

  14. #3139
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Questions for kidwoo and others who want more, bike-accessible trails. Can you identify one specific place where you would like a trail built? Who owns the land? What steps have you taken to get the trail built? Have you considered donating to the Truckee Donner Land Trust, which is the organization around here that buys private land and either manages it or donates it to a govt org, and builds trails (like the multi-use trail up Johnson Canyon). Look at the purchases they have made in recent years and the lands they have opened to the public--Euer and Carpenter Valleys purchases for instance. Just don't count on the FS or the State Parks or any other govt body to do it--their hands are full and pockets empty.

    Expanding parking at existing trail heads is a bad idea. Right now limiting parking is the only way to keep the crowds on the trails to a (barely) tolerable level. I have no problem with creating new trails with parking where there are none; most desirable sites are already taken though, but I'm sure there are places--identify them. As far as managing existing resources--we either limit access by parking restrictions or by requiring permits with quotas, or we tolerate the crowds. Spreading people out will require money and labor--if you are advocating for that you need to be prepared to spend one or the other or both.

    One thing I know for sure--telling people to stay away won't work.

    Maybe some day there will be a progressive enough administration to do what Roosevelt and the CCC did to build trails during the Depression. I'm not holding my breath. Ambitious public works of any kind seem to be beyond the capabilities of this nation now and probably forever.
    You'll notice I also said building NEW parking lots to access EXISTING trail networks. So down the road, build a spur, create a loop kind of thing. I didn't just say expand parking lots at existing trailheads as a stand alone. Look at our small trailheads. Is it stopping parking? Hell no, it's putting people on highways. Plus the general idea of making public lands more difficult to access is not really something you believe in I think. Didn't you say something about having a responsibility to share where we live? You just said it yourself: telling people to stay away won't work. You're seeing just leaving parking lots small doesn't work either.

    To your questions. I'm not simply requesting more bike trails, that's already happening. What I'm pointing out is that all we're getting is more of the same kinds of trails. What I specifically harped on over and over again was big, high elevation trails, the kind people travel for or that are a special memorable experience. Things like the downieville downhill route, the cannell plunge in the Kern. That is what we have few of. It's not just volume, it's a particular variety that I've ridden a shit ton.......in other states, not here. You can build out tahoe (donner) all you want but you're never going to get that kind of thing without poking down the american river or similar drainages.......or allowing some bike trails in the very little non-wilderness high elevation spots we have left. That's what I'm really after. Not 'bike trails' in eur valley. That also just packs more people into Truckee. We should be able to spread out to other areas but there's nothing for us in too many places that are cool in the summer. Even worse for dirtbikes.

    As I mentioned......Tioga, Sonora, Carson, Ebbetts passes. Long loops, high elevation, in the real mountains, not the tahoe dust. All of that is forest service. In one particular case I'm doing exactly what I already laid out: taking some of these "Recommended Wilderness" areas in forest plans, and change them to 'Backcountry" or some other designation that keeps the preservation and development restrictions, but allows some other recreational uses.

    I personally will not be giving a dime to the TD Land trust. They're all mountainbikers so they're happily building bike legal trails, but they're also taking some checkerboarded FS property that's been snowmobile terrain for decades, buying up all private 'squares' they can get their hands on, and making them non-motorized. Generally speaking I like their concept, they're doing a better job than what the Nature Conservancy set out to do, at least here locally. That is: preserve open space, and at least in theory allow public access. But like the Nature Conservancy, they're getting a picky on what they deem acceptable recreation. I know trailbuilders and employees there, it's creating an odd dinner table discussion trust me. They still only speak to and for a very specific sect of the recreating public. It's a mistake IMO.


    Totally with you on the roosevelt CC approach. I see some potential on the horizon. If I lose my job in some massive depression I'd go build trails. Legally for a change.

    One of the biggest problems is that the USFS is where good ideas go to die. There are a lot reasons for that but it really is kind of maddening. They respond to lawsuits and threats of lawsuits these days. It takes someone special and motivated in local forests or ranger districts. And even then, they get shot down far too frequently. It just happened in the Tahoe with some e-bike stuff.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  15. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckeelocal View Post
    TDLT/TrucTrails working on the "Pines to Mines" trail and the Pyramid to Taho trail is open. New, long distance, stuff. Too hard for most of the punters though, Oh well .. we need easy trails.
    Who did the routing on the big cheif trail? Was that J.Groom in the Truckee Ranger District or was that you guys?
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  16. #3141
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    I assume you approve of the Big Chief build out? Way better than that IMBA sidewalk bullshit. A little bit of everything. I hope the same folks are working on the Happy Face rebuild during the logging. Fun to connect those trails together in a loop from the Sawtooth parking lot.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  17. #3142
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    The upper part routing is legit. The ding dong shit they tried to build into it is mostly just in the way but you can always save a well routed trail. It got bedded in better. I looked at a map when it was done and decided I'd never ride the second 'half'. That part is mostly a catastrophe. I just ride the upper bit into deer creek.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  18. #3143
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    Kid, I'm not sure what you mean by high elevation, but if that means above timberline, that country should be no bikes, no horses, and limited quotas for people. I'm only familiar with that country in the Sierra, the Winds, and the Tetons but I can't see bikes in the alpine. If you mean something else--then what?

    A new parking lot with a spur to an existing popular trail is not a good idea IMO.

  19. #3144
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    The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    The upper part routing is legit. The ding dong shit they tried to build into it is mostly just in the way but you can always save a well routed trail. It got bedded in better. I looked at a map when it was done and decided I'd never ride the second 'half'. That part is mostly a catastrophe. I just ride the upper bit into deer creek.
    I’m not a fan of the middle (too much up and down) but the lower third or so (after the log ride) - which goes for a good stretch - is pretty damn fun. Nice rock work and berms thru the trees... I’ll take it.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  20. #3145
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Kid, I'm not sure what you mean by high elevation, but if that means above timberline, that country should be no bikes, no horses, and limited quotas for people.

    Finally at the heart of the matter. But 100 skiers trampling over the same shale per day in the spring time is fine? Because we currently allow that. Plus horses.

    And more importantly that is why I will be driving over a thousand miles, pumping a shit ton of CO2 into the atmosphere to go ride my bike in the alpine in 3 other states next month. That's not that cool. We should be able to do that in at least one place here eh?



    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I'm only familiar with that country in the Sierra, the Winds, and the Tetons but I can't see bikes in the alpine. If you mean something else--then what?
    A new parking lot with a spur to an existing popular trail is not a good idea IMO.
    No that's exactly what I mean. It exists in other places, this biking in the alpine thing. I promise. It's fine.

    I haven't even given you a specific example of increasing hiking opportunities with some parking lot and trail construction but you already oppose it. Yet here's one where it already exists: hiking from woods lake on the west side of carson pass to the pct. Should we tear that out then?

    So the existing infrastructure you know about is fine. But nothing new, ever, anywhere? Someone had to build the trails you're thinking of or have been on at some point. We done? What about your earlier suggestion about a roosevelt-ish CC works project. They can't build anything?
    Last edited by kidwoo; 07-26-2020 at 10:32 PM.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  21. #3146
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Finally at the heart of the matter. But 100 skiers trampling over the same shale per day in the spring time is fine? Because we currently allow that. Plus horses.

    And more importantly that is why I will be driving over a thousand miles, pumping a shit ton of CO2 into the atmosphere to go ride my bike in the alpine in 3 other states next month. That's not that cool. We should be able to do that in at least one place here eh?





    No that's exactly what I mean. It exists in other places, this biking in the alpine thing. I promise. It's fine.

    I haven't even given you a specific example of increasing hiking opportunities with some parking lot and trail construction but you already oppose it. Yet here's one where it already exists: hiking from woods lake on the west side of carson pass to the pct. Should we tear that out then?

    So the existing infrastructure you know about is fine. But nothing new, ever, anywhere? Someone had to build the trails you're thinking of or have been on at some point. We done? What about your earlier suggestion about a roosevelt-ish CC works project. They can't build anything?
    That's not at all what I said. I'm fine with new trails. The recent purchases by the TDLT has opened up a number of new opportunities. Mostly in places where there are already dirt roads and the like--building trail from scratch is a lot of work for a lot of manpower to do it right. I'm fine with new parking for new trails. I'm not fine with expanding parking for existing trails--including new separate lots for a spur trail that quickly connects to an already heavily used trail. I am not suggesting removing any existing trails, except to clean up areas where there are multiple parallel, interweaving use trails, like shirley canyon-which is in much better shape than it used to be.

    You don't seem to want to say exactly where you want even one new trail to be--I don't mean what highway it starts on, I mean where the TH is and where the ultimate destination is. You don't want to be more specific about what you mean by high elevation and where you would locate high elevation biking. That is your right, although it's difficult to have a serious discussion about this without specifics. I'm sure there are place in the alpine--dry, rocky places--where biking would have little negative impact, just as there are wet alpine meadows where even hikers should not go.

    Unfortunately I don't think you can count on someone else building trails for you. The govt isn't going to do it, although I would like to see a CCC type effort but I doubt the politics will let it happen. It's going to be done by NGO's with volunteers and donations. If you want more access you're going to have to work for it and pay for it.

    I've made my points as best I can. The final word is yours.

  22. #3147
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Finally at the heart of the matter. But 100 skiers trampling over the same shale per day in the spring time is fine? Because we currently allow that. Plus horses.
    Where does this happen? It’s somewhat unusual to see even one other skier in the high Sierra on most days in the spring.

    Even a place like the saddlebag lake drainage, with the road to the lake open, on a Saturday, ive never seen more than 15 or so skiers.

    Just keeping us honest


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  23. #3148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robojerry View Post
    Where does this happen? It’s somewhat unusual to see even one other skier in the high Sierra on most days in the spring.

    Even a place like the saddlebag lake drainage, with the road to the lake open, on a Saturday, ive never seen more than 15 or so skiers.

    Just keeping us honest


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

    Leavitt Peak, Dana Plateau (especially above Ellery bowl), Black Mtn out of VA lakes. Maybe not 100/per day but lots. Especially the first weekend each of those gets plowed. VA lakes was insane last year when it was the only road open for a few weeks. I'm not personally torn up about ski boots on rocks, I used that to illustrate the difference in tolerance for rubber tires on rocks.




    Old Goat: I've said Sonora Pass like 5 times at this point. Once you see the land designations, it's obvious because there's only one strip of non-wilderness in the area. Start from St Mary's pass and drop down towards Bald mtn, all the way to the clark fork intersection.

    I also mentioned Caples Creek. Take something off the back of little roundtop towards kirkwood lake and even further to the silver fork campground. There's already a trail there to use, or build a parallel route to keep the wide brimmed hat with walking sticks crew happy.

    Trust me, I gave up on 'the gov't' building trails a long time ago. That's why I keep talking about land designations and not trails specifics. One is difficult to overcome. The trail itself, not so much.

    For the umpteenth time, this isn't about one or two trails. It's about thinking about how we go forward in addressing bigger problems like tahoe turning into an amusement park and blowing millions of dollars on fire suppression just so people can come up here and buy ice cream and a margarita on the beach and block your parking spaces. Some of the things I've mentioned are part of that, especially since this entire state now apparently wants to be in the mountains.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  24. #3149
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    rain washed away most of the "10pm-6am" parts of the No Parking signs along donner, so now they're just No Parking signs. Nature is healing

  25. #3150
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    with the massive unemployment we are facing and the fed just printing money like inflation isnt a thing, now is the perfect time to follow in the footsteps of fdr and create a ccc like program that does more then just fire prep. I see the big deterrent to kid's dreams being ebikes allowing the soft to go deep. If they were to open up trails in the high sierra, lack of fitness would keep the crowds at bay and would make much of the range more accessible to those willing to work for it.....just like skiing. I cant walk downhill for shit cuz of a busted up ankle so the high sierra is completely inaccessible for me unless im on skis or a bike. since biking isnt an option, i only get to visit this magical range in the winter.....and even then am usually relegated to just the front layer. Biking would open up the 2nd, 3rd, and deeper layers towards the western slope that hardly ever sees any human traffic all year. imagine the financial boon for towns like bridgeport, bishop, mammoth, lone pine.....etc if they became a biking destination and it would also relieve much of the biking pressure we are seeing in tahoe. there is such a massive amount of land in the sierra that there is plenty of room to coexist with the pct hikers who would be bummed to have to share a trail with bikes. building alternate multiuse bike friendly trails that stay away fromthe pct would be easy to accomplish, aside from changing the regs to allow bikes. how can we make this happen??? or do we really need the old guard to die off first?

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