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  1. #276
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    Ok, those are odd questions. Good luck man, hope it works out for ya.

  2. #277
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    I don't know about Teslas but just general thoughts:
    1) almost no new cars come with a spare these days
    2) tires/wheels from OEMs are almost always ridiculously overpriced
    3) EVs are typically spec'd with bricks for tires because that gives them the best range, but tires are tires and the car will still roll on different ones. You might take a range hit depending what you buy. Wheels too could affect range for aero reasons.
    Personally I'm rolling my Bolt with no spare for now. I carry a slime inflator, some tire plugs, the car came with free roadside assistance for the first couple years, and I never really drive it that far from the city and I'm not usually far from a tire repair shop. Once the roadside assistance is up, I'll throw an extra tire in (I have two sets of wheels, summers on one and winters on the other, so easy to throw an off-season tire in the trunk).

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I don't know about Teslas but just general thoughts:
    1) almost no new cars come with a spare these days
    2) tires/wheels from OEMs are almost always ridiculously overpriced
    3) EVs are typically spec'd with bricks for tires because that gives them the best range, but tires are tires and the car will still roll on different ones. You might take a range hit depending what you buy. Wheels too could affect range for aero reasons.
    Personally I'm rolling my Bolt with no spare for now. I carry a slime inflator, some tire plugs, the car came with free roadside assistance for the first couple years, and I never really drive it that far from the city and I'm not usually far from a tire repair shop. Once the roadside assistance is up, I'll throw an extra tire in (I have two sets of wheels, summers on one and winters on the other, so easy to throw an off-season tire in the trunk).
    I wouldn't be worried about a lack of a spare in anything I wasn't going to drive far off the beaten path. I've changed two tires by the side of the road in my 20 years of driving. And one of them i drove out to rescue the wife with one of that car's snow tires, so the fact that it had a donut spare didn't matter anyway. Once every 20 years I can wait for roadside assistance.

    Obviously if I'm going to be in the middle of nowhere it's a different story.

  4. #279
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    If you live in Utah and enjoy either electric vehicles or a snow line below 9500 feet, now is a good time to call and yell at our elected dipshits.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...ion-fees-utah/

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Just put in a grant proposal to the State of CO for one of these:

    Attachment 358673

    250kW, 125mi range with 72pass, 335HP, 1800lb/ft - https://thelionelectric.com/en/products/electric

    $410k list with auto chains and other options.
    VW dieselgate settlement money will provide a $300k grant. We would be the first mountain terrain + cold weather application for any of the three EV bus manufacturers.



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Update: we were awarded the grant, hopefully we’ll get a bus by the fall. More to come!


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  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Update: we were awarded the grant, hopefully we’ll get a bus by the fall. More to come!


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    That's great, dude. I like the electric city buses we have here in Park City. I hope it works out nicely for you

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  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    If you live in Utah and enjoy either electric vehicles or a snow line below 9500 feet, now is a good time to call and yell at our elected dipshits.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...ion-fees-utah/

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    Yeah, this is bull shit! We love our leaf for running around salt lake. So easy, and with the solar panels, it costs basically nothing to drive.

    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  8. #283
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    Having now driven my AWD model 3 in snow, not crazy, but with chains required unless you have AWD and M+S tires, I would add a couple of things:

    I think Tesla needs a snow mode. This would be full-time AWD, I wish other AWD cars would have this option too, reducing the acceleration to chill mode, and reducing regenerative breaking.

    With how fast the acceleration is, it is problematic if you are on slick roads. You definitely want to put the acceleration in chill mode. I'm glad I did some research on this.

    With the regen breaking, I guess the issue is that it breaks too hard when you take your foot off the accelerator, which can lead to skidding as if you hit the breaks too hard. Once again, I'm glad I checked on this.

    Some folks have recommended creep mode too, but I didn't try that.

    Overall I didn't have an issue driving on snowy roads. Obviously you don't have a ton of clearance, like in any AWD sedan as opposed to an SUV, but it handled the roads just fine. The one hill I had to climb, which wasn't all that bad, I didn't have any trouble. I didn't have any issues with slipping anywhere that were serious, a bit of looseness on a turn, but no different than it might have been in one of the SUVs I used to drive and nothing to be concerned about.

    But DEFINITELY put the acceleration in chill mode and reduce the regen breaking. I could see that causing some issues on icy/snowy roads.

    I will also report that the new chargers in Bishop are really helpful. Leaving Newport Beach with around 87% battery I was able to charge for 8 minutes in Mojave, 8 in Lone Pine and 6 in Bishop in order to reach Mammoth Lakes with around a 16% charge. Not as easy as an ICE, but really not bad.

    There is also a new supercharger in Palmdale. It is near the Antelope Valley Mall, right in the parking lot, so there are lots of places to eat if you want to pick up food while you wait. The added chargers in Bishop and Palmdale really help things.

    I have yet to run into an issue with having chargers be crowded on the way to Mammoth. I'm sure it will happen at some point, I usually leave at 4 am so it probably won't happen on the way there. It makes sense to charge on Saturday, or Sunday, morning in Mammoth for a bit so that you have more options going home, although the Mammoth Lakes charger is slow. Even driving home on a Sunday evening I have yet to have difficulty finding a spot at a charger. I'm sure it will happen at some point.

    I continue to be amazed by the regen breaking. Any of you socal folks who ski Baldy know what that hill is like. Between leaving the parking lot and getting on the 210W, about a 15-20 minute drive down hill, you gain 6-7% battery charge. It's weird seeing the charge go up.

    I continue to be amazed by this vehicle. My all-time favorite car will always be the Pathfinder I drove in college and during my Tahoe years after, but this is the best car I've ever owned. They have done a really incredible job.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  9. #284
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    Does Tesla allow you to turn off one pedal driving? I always turn off one pedal in my Bolt when driving in the snow.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Does Tesla allow you to turn off one pedal driving? I always turn off one pedal in my Bolt when driving in the snow.
    I believe that has to do with the regen breaking, so yes.

    What you do is lower the level of regen breaking from standard to low.

    I have read some opinions from people who live in snow who actually LIKE one pedal driving, but I'm not there with it yet.

    When you turn off the regen breaking the car does not slow down as quickly, and is thus less likely to skid.

    There are some discussions in the Tesla forums on one pedal driving and regen breaking for snow and ice. There are some people who seem to prefer it. and some who don't. It seems like it is something that takes some getting used to though.

    You can also change the breaking to 'creep' mode, which some advocate. I have not tried that yet. Creep mode is not one of the regen breaking modes, it is something different.

    I also forgot to mention the slip start mode for the model 3. This helps when driving in loose snow.

    I will admit that I have had fun driving this up the 395. When I was driving an SUV and passing a big truck on one of those super windy days I would always floor it, but always be worried. With this car I car go from 75 to 95 like that. It absolutely takes off like nothing I have ever driven. I still am very leery about passing on a two lane road, I have seen too many close calls, but when you want to just blast by a semi an a fraction of a second it's nice to have that sort of power.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  11. #286
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    Just a minor point - it's braking, not breaking. And it sounds like Rivian is working on the snow mode &cold weather thingy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjyeJ21YKQ - About 1:38 into the vid discusses torque and snow/icy conditions.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  12. #287
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    Canoo is the latest EV entry for years out

  13. #288
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    I was just going to post that one.
    https://www.canoo.com/mpdv/

  14. #289
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    Long duc dong, have you driven up and down the road to baldy when it's super slick? I've experienced (in the 90's) those switchbacks being very problematic, especially on the down, where first gear (on the down) and minimal braking were the safest method. How's that translate to use of the Tesla 3?

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  15. #290
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    Does anyone have some seat time in a Fiat 500e? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a new around-town grocery getter.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Just a minor point - it's braking, not breaking. And it sounds like Rivian is working on the snow mode &cold weather thingy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjyeJ21YKQ - About 1:38 into the vid discusses torque and snow/icy conditions.
    Yes it is!

    Classic. That's what happens when you suk at speling. It's also wat happens when someone who suks at speling goes into statistics and concentrates more on Greek letters for theoretical math than having a proper comand of the language he grew up speking. This really should be cautionary tale to all of the parents out there.

    I wish I could blame it on auto-correct, but that is sadly not the case. My command of the English language was always tenuous at best.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Does anyone have some seat time in a Fiat 500e? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a new around-town grocery getter.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    We got one recently. Well really my wife insisted she get one. They are pretty cheap all around but surprisingly functional for a very affordable used car. The price had to be low enough that I wouldn’t cry if it just stopped working one day. She drives it 25 minutes each way to work and just plugs into a regular 120v outlet overnight which is enough to charge back up. She drove it 1 hour on the freeway all the way once and had less than 30% left - that battery is small.

    It’s zippy to drive but I don’t find the driving position or visibility that great. The steering wheel doesn’t telescope. I’m nearly 6’ and it seems to fit her a bit better. She loves it! The EV acceleration is nice around town. Good second car if you don’t need to have two people both going far on the same day.

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Long duc dong, have you driven up and down the road to baldy when it's super slick? I've experienced (in the 90's) those switchbacks being very problematic, especially on the down, where first gear (on the down) and minimal braking were the safest method. How's that translate to use of the Tesla 3?

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Excellent question.

    And no, I have not.

    Honestly, I rarely ski Baldy on powder days. I usually head to Mammoth on those weekends. When I have driven those switchbacks on snowy/icy days I have actually been far more sketched out than in my years living in Tahoe, or in Mammoth. I tend to use shuttle service in Mammoth, and when I lived in Tahoe I never lived anywhere that was all that steep, just a couple of houses on Tiger Tail, a place in the Ghetto in the Meadow (is Lake Forest Glen still called that? Or has it been gentrified?) and an A-Frame near the Firesign. I never had to consistently drive in a windy, hilly or sketchy area. I also lived in the Ponderosa Hotel in Reno for about a month while looking for a place to live in Tahoe City after having moved back. The Ponderosa was certainly sketchy, but the roads there were not bad

    I have only had the Model 3 for about a year.

    I would also agree about the down, that is much more sketchy than the up. I would approach it essentially the same way:

    1) Put the regen braking in the lowest setting, definitely not standard.

    2) Possibly put the car in creep mode. Creep makes it feel more like an ICE vehicle. But honestly, I have not tried this and I have not really found much information on going down an icy hill in creep.

    I think the best option is to lower the regen braking when going down an icy hill. I wish I knew more about the creep situation.

    That Baldy hill.....Wow. Honestly I also tend to avoid it because of the snowplay situation. It seems like a large portion of LA goes up to the snow when it is new to ride chair 1 for scenic rides and go to the tubing park. For those of you non-socal folks Baldy is a strange place. You will often see more people without skis/boards than with riding the lift from the parking lot to the restaurant/tubing park. I have actually turned around on a powder day because traffic was backed up to below the Baldy village, which is a long way from the ski resort. Lots of those people are also HORRIBLE snow drivers. I have heard of people being stuck up at the mountain for hours because of an accident.

    Earlier this season in Mammoth I experienced just what the regen braking can do on a hill which is not even all that icy. I was going down Tyrol Lane in Mammoth Lakes. Anyone who knows that street, it is off of Kelley, on the route between Canyon and Eagle, will tell you that lots of cars slide through the stop sign there when it is icy. The guy who owns the house on Kelley across from Tyrol told me once that he has had numerous people slide into his driveway. This was not even a sketchy looking day, some loose slush from a storm about 4 days before. I had the car in standard regen, and as I went down the hill and took my foot off the accelerator ( almost called it the gas) I felt a bit of slippage. It was not a big deal, I had not trouble stopping at the stop sign, but I was a bit perplexed so I researched it when I got home. The regen braking can really do a number in that situation, you really have to go from standard to low. When I have been in low I have not had any issues.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  19. #294
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    Thx for the long response. I mentioned the baldy road because you’d be familiar with it. When the baldy road is really bad, I would not want to descend with a center diff locked or vehicle in 4wd because of the tightness of the turn.

    Where I live many of the road grades were established before cars and then graded/paved without driving in snow in mind: steep, off camber, big adjacent drainage ditches, very steep center crowns, no reflectors (even on the shoulders). The road accessing my neighbor has all of that and there’s usually several small wrecks each day it snows or when roads ice up. I’ve seen plenty of ecars and hybrids involved, but also see big ass f350’s amd “regular” snow cars like subis and 4runners. Yesterday, I had to stop going up the steepest section because of a wreck. I had to start in second to have traction (awd w/ snows) and not spin and drift into the shoulder/ditch. It was no big deal, but took an adjustment in technique. On the way down later that evening, I crept down the steepest part in 1st gear because second gear requires quite a bit of braking. Reading the discussion in this thread made me wonder about driving an e-car or some of the hybrids in that situation.

  20. #295
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    When I first used regen braking in snow, I almost went off the road following the hard braking action as soon as you let up on the "gas." I feel like I now have it dialed in, just use one pedal coming down our mountain road, and am careful not to lift off the pedal entirely, ever. I have a Bolt with Blizzaks and, knock on wood, am not dead yet. We've had a good winter and several vehicles have gone sideways into the ditches (usually some teenager driving his parents AWD car or truck).

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    When I first used regen braking in snow, I almost went off the road following the hard braking action as soon as you let up on the "gas." I feel like I now have it dialed in, just use one pedal coming down our mountain road, and am careful not to lift off the pedal entirely, ever. I have a Bolt with Blizzaks and, knock on wood, am not dead yet. We've had a good winter and several vehicles have gone sideways into the ditches (usually some teenager driving his parents AWD car or truck).
    Thanks for the response!

    This is exactly the kind of information I am interested in.

    Does the Bolt allow you to change the levels of regen braking?

    If so, When you are going downhill using one pedal are you at the highest level of regen braking? Or are you at a reduced level?

    Sorry for the questions, but you clearly have some perspective here.

    Some people out there really swear by the one pedal driving, I'm just not comfortable enough with it yet.

    It takes lots of kids time to realize that AWD does not mean you can just drive normally in icy conditions.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  22. #297
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    No, as far as I know, the 2017 Bolt (maybe a newer model is fancier) has two driving modes -- Drive and Low. Low is one-pedal driving and doesn't have multiple settings. My wife refers to it as driving a golf cart. She likes it but doesn't use it going down the ski hill. But, as noted above, if you slowly ease up on the gas, the car does slowly decelerate so that coming down the hill and approaching a moderately icy bend, it's fine. And then, by the bottom, I've gained mileage.

    Overall, the Bolt with Blizzaks handles snow and ice far better than I would have anticipated. With it's low clearance, I am wary only of untracked powder.

  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    No, as far as I know, the 2017 Bolt (maybe a newer model is fancier) has two driving modes -- Drive and Low. Low is one-pedal driving and doesn't have multiple settings. My wife refers to it as driving a golf cart. She likes it but doesn't use it going down the ski hill. But, as noted above, if you slowly ease up on the gas, the car does slowly decelerate so that coming down the hill and approaching a moderately icy bend, it's fine. And then, by the bottom, I've gained mileage.

    Overall, the Bolt with Blizzaks handles snow and ice far better than I would have anticipated. With it's low clearance, I am wary only of untracked powder.
    That's good info! Thank you!

    I have a several more Mammoth trips under my belt.

    The last two I have gone up the 395 early, which means that instead of driving up through LA, via the 5 or 405, and taking the 14 up until it meets the 395, you go as if you are going to Vegas and take the 55/91/15 to the 395 in the Apple Valley/Hesperia area. This allows you to miss the LA traffic, and on these trips I have left late, around 6 am, so LA would not be great. What sucks about doing the desert 395 route is that it is one lane in lots of spots, so you can get stuck behind trucks. While that sucks, what really worries me is some idiot making an emotional pass in the other direction. I can handle being stuck behind a truck, I am more worried about a head-on collision. I have no problem with people passing, but you had better be 100% certain. That should go without saying, but unfortunately it does not. This 395 route is about 10 miles shorter than going up through LA, but I avoid it unless I'm leaving at an inefficient time. If I leave at 4 am I typically go up the 5.

    One of the trips I left around 6 am and took the desert route. I arrived at the Inyokern charger at 840 am with a 12% charge, this is in an AWD long range model 3. I was typically driving 75, maybe close to 80 at times. I charged for 20 minutes, which got me to a 64% charge. I then continued on to Bishop.

    The route planner did a pretty good job. It would occasionally warn me to slow down a bit, but I ended up getting to Bishop with a 9% charge, which was pretty consistent with what it was estimating on the trip. From Inyokern, which is basically half-way to Mammoth from Newport, it takes about 55% of the battery to get to Bishop. I arrived in Bishop at 1107, charged for 14 minutes to 1121, and left Bishop with a 54% charge. We arrived in Mammoth with a 29% charge, which is excessive, I probably could have charged for 8-10 minutes in Bishop and been fine, maybe less. It's pretty easy to charge in Mammoth, the charger is located right next to grocery outlet and across the street from the Looney Bean/Footloose/CVS area, so you can easily combine getting some shopping/coffee with charging. There is not much of a reason, under normal circumstances at least, to arrive in Mammoth with a 29% charge. I arrived at the condo at 1208, which was plenty of time to get 3.5 hours of laps in.

    There is some efficiency in this route: When you arrive at Inyokern with 12% and Bishop with 9% you are charging with the battery very low, which means you get fast charging. I could have pulled this off with 28(or maybe even 25) minutes of charging time if I had taken less time in Bishop, and I really had no need to arrive in Mammoth with a 29% charge, and the entire trip took only 6 hours and 8 minutes, which is not bad for going to Mammoth from Newport. Charging at these two places makes good sense. You can also charge at Inyokern from the 14/395 route, as Inyokern is very close to where the 14 and the 395 meet. That route is a bit longer, so you might need to start with a few ticks more, like maybe making sure you have a 90% charge. You could probably make it starting with 85% going up the 14, but it would be close.

    On the negative side, the charger in Inyokern is in an area which seems a bit sketchy. It was not all that big of a deal during the day, and I don't REALLY know if it is dangerous, but what I have read online about it seems accurate. It seems like it would not be a great place to be for 20-30 minutes at night. I don't really know if it is dangerous, it just would not be my ideal place to stop.

    On the way home five days later I left Mammoth with an 86% charge and arrived in Mojave with 17%. I charged for 23 minutes, and left with a 64% charge, using the time to grab some stuff to munch on from Stater Bros. 64% was more than necessary, although I forgot to log what I arrived back in Newport with. The Mojave charger is usually pretty crowded late on a Sunday afternoon, it looked to be other people like me, coming back from Mammoth. I have never had a problem getting a charger there, but it could be interesting. The nice thing is that there is now a charger in Palmdale, so you could use that option if you have enough juice. With 17% in Mojave you could make the Palmdale charger without too much trouble. You could also take the option of a 5-minute charge in Lone Pine and then a meal in Palmdale. The Palmdale charger is at one of those malls, I think the Antelope Valley Mall but I'm not certain. It is a full-on 250kw charger, so it can refill quickly.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  24. #299
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    I get a bit of range anxiety just reading your posts.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    I get a bit of range anxiety just reading your posts.
    ha, me too!

    I can add that I tried to park in an area of about 8" of fresh snow and the low clearance on the Bolt got me. The car was high centered and stuck for 20 minutes, while we dug out snow from underneath. I was over-confident and trying to make room for the plows that were clearing the parking lot (it was 5:45 am and we were doing a quick lap before work). Otherwise, it kicked ass this winter (on plowed or well rutted roads). We put a Yakima rack on top of the naked roof so our family of 5 could squeeze in. When Musk invents a mute button for kids, I'll upgrade to the Tesla.

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