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Thread: Electric car thread
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02-01-2023, 11:02 AM #1326
Dire commodity supply warnings rarely pan out. Nothing cures high prices like high prices.
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02-01-2023, 11:05 AM #1327"Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."
"You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.
"I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."
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02-01-2023, 11:07 AM #1328
Along those lines, the other side of the equation is the fossil fuel industry is directly subsidized by Uncle Sam (aka the taxpayers) to the tune of 20 billion dollars. When you include indirect subsidies/externalities that number jumps to over 600 billion.
Americans burn too much petroleum because it's too cheap. Get big government out of oil! Let the invisible hand of the market decide!
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02-01-2023, 11:17 AM #1329
But the person in the city who doesn't drive and relies on transit and ride shares to get around would still be paying their fair share. The gas tax applies to all consumers, even government, and there is no reason a per mile driven tax shouldn't either. The tax for the non-driver would be built into the price they pay for the bus, for uber, for the goods they purchase, for a ride to the ER, ect.
Also, the current gas taxes do not pay for 100% of road maintenance. A per miles driven tax wouldn't either. So we would all still be paying for road maintenance, even if we don't own a car.
The only free loaders would be the bicyclists. But is it really a problem that we would be subsidizing bike riding over vehicle travel?
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02-01-2023, 11:22 AM #1330
Ok, where do we draw the line? Forcing electric vehicles on the public is ok. Should we force solar on all new construction? Should we ban natural gas and force people to heat exclusively with electric? Should we force people to move from places like South Lake Tahoe, where their overall carbon footprint is greater than in dense cities, to move to dense cities?
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02-01-2023, 11:25 AM #1331
For at least long haul trucks, there’s anticipation by at least Shell Oil that the change in tech will be staged. Next stage is “renewable natural gas” from cow shit. Shell is throwing money at this technology, while the larger equipment industry advances no emissions tech that will functionally work for long haul trucks and similar equipment. Not sure about petroleum industry plan for those next phases.
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02-01-2023, 11:39 AM #1332
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02-01-2023, 11:47 AM #1333
I'm not even sure why this is such a hot debate any more. I'll distill my previous post into something simpler. When it comes to EVs there used to be a long list of legitimate negatives that outweighed the positives. Now that the list of pros now outweighs the shrinking list of cons, I have changed my stance on them. Don't get me wrong. I've always been a fan of the idea knowing the history of cars and was always pissed when GM killed off the EV1. (Anybody else remember the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" ?) However, I also recognized the tech just wasn't there yet. That's since changed.
Still a LONG way to go, but I think we can now legitimately say it's here to stay and for the most part, it's a net positive change. IMO, the next biggest hurdles we need to address (and NOW) is the sourcing of battery materials and of course improving our electrical infrastructure and power generation. I know the poorly-named "Inflation Reduction Act" actually aims to address the sourcing of the materials, encouraging domestic production, but it actually doesn't go nearly far enough. At least it does something though.
When power and mining for battery materials are firmly tackled though, that will take away even more arguments against EVs. We should ALL be unified in the sourcing of the materials, as this doesn't just effect EVs, but in cell phones, computers, and pretty much all our consumer electronics. It's appalling what's going on in that realm, but I digress.
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02-01-2023, 11:59 AM #1334
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02-01-2023, 06:46 PM #1335
Free markets and libertarianism are such naïve and outdated concepts.
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02-02-2023, 08:19 AM #1336
The math is interesting. My kWh just jumped from 14 to almost 22
But with all the other charges I’m at 38 cents kWh.
Look at your bill and break out the calculator. The electric cost is only part of it.
I could see buying a hybrid someday. Local electric and long range gas. Smaller battery and less weight. More convenient.
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02-02-2023, 08:41 AM #1337
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02-02-2023, 12:55 PM #1338
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02-02-2023, 05:10 PM #1339
Talk about ignoring facts. Virtually every single EV gets way over 50 miles of range in the worst circumstances. Also, the average household already has 1.88 cars. As others have pointed out EVs are already almost as cheap to buy as ice cars. Looking at the average is just stupid because most / many are luxury super cars.
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02-02-2023, 08:15 PM #1340
Interesting thread if you can skip thru the chatter!
I've got a fleet of 8 cargo vans for my plumbing business and spend nearly $8k a month in fuel. We are usually towing ~7k lb trailers with specialized equipment, sometimes long distances. Daily mileage for each van ranges from 50 to 500+ miles.
Right now EV obviously just isn't there for our use case, but I look forward to the day it is!
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02-02-2023, 09:34 PM #1341
Similar here. Cargo van based biz.
Not as many miles, but fuck, how do they charge? Employees take van home. Do I pay them to charge mid day?
Do they need to buy another car to commute to the shop where the van is plugged in?
Cafe standards made this mess. Heavy vehicles were made exempt so soccer moms bought f150 or suburbans.
gas is going to be taxed to force ev.
How’s that affecting biz that needs vans? Someone has to pay.
How’s that $20 wage affecting your Starbucks and Big Mac?
Trickle up? Or trickle down on your shoe?
Not to mention cargo vans are now $40k. Limping and repairing an aging fleet. This is fubar already.
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02-02-2023, 09:54 PM #1342
I’d guess the first step would be getting one or two out of eight that don’t tow and handle the 50-100 mile days if the logistics allow you to interchange them based on distance and towing need.
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02-02-2023, 11:53 PM #1343
Anyone actually driven either the Ioniq 5 or the EV6?
I was a phone call away from purchasing one of the two, when the dealer tried to invoke a bidding war.
Curious how they handle snow with a decent snowflake tire.
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02-03-2023, 11:39 AM #1344
If you have guys that you trust to stick with you I'd look at covering the cost a charger install and their charging. Payoff would take a few years, but you'd get there and have happier employees.
This is where I'm at. I have six Transits of different configurations. I'm hoping to transition one or two to Transit EV's and continue to update the fleet as range improves on vans.
I think Beaver has a Ioniq 5 up in Canuckland
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02-03-2023, 11:48 AM #1345
I am REALLY liking what I'm seeing from the new Kia EV6 GT, however I have one big beef. Not with the car, but rather with the marketing. Why TF are they calling it a "crossover" when it it clearly a great looking EV hot hatch?! An EV hot hatch is awesome! That's what I want! But the fake CUV labelling is out of control. But then again, the marketing departments clearly know what sells, so I'll give 'em that. Still annoyed though. Whatever... I still want one. Haha.
Tested: The 2023 Kia EV6 GT Scrambles Brand Perceptions
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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02-03-2023, 11:52 AM #1346
Preach it! I hadn't thought of the overnight charging at home issue yet, my techs take their vans home too. Seems like what we need is a replaceable battery system where you can swap out like a power tool. I imagine a world in which my techs roll up to a "gas station" for a battery swap and I pay per battery cycle. Would be far from perfect, but at least solves some of the issues.
It's been very interesting to see inflation work its way thru my business. I've had to do a series of price increases and my customers haven't really flinched. It helps that we only do emergency "essential" services (drain cleaning). But at some point things can't just keep going up without some real consequences.
I paid $30k out the door for a brand new chevy express van in November 2020. I've been trying to order another one for 18 months with no luck, despite the local Chevy dealer being my neighbor and buddy. Hard to stomach paying $55k for a Ram Promaster or Sprinter that is just a basic white box but I may have to do that soon.
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02-03-2023, 12:04 PM #1347
Years ago, I gave up on finding a Ford/Chevy work truck or van as well. Found Mercedes MUCH easier to work with so worth checking out. Plus, with Daimler's Zero TRAC lease program, the math super works out. You get to basically write all of it off cuz they're "lease payments", then at the end, they "sell" it to you for $1. Check into it and you'll see what I'm saying. I really liked working with them over the worthless Ford & Chevy dealers I talked to.
That said, anybody know if these eSprinter vans are any good?
https://www.vans.mercedes-benz.com/v...nter-panel-van
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02-03-2023, 12:21 PM #1348
3.2 60mph in a Kia?
And it’s a wagon? Fkna that might push me to electrify
Sprinter vans are nice. Never added them since we short trips and they dropped gas for diesel only.
The e sprinter is 95 to 200 miles depending on battery. Load it heavy and then what.
They show an ambulance version on the page. I don’t want no stinking embulance. Let them run fuel. Lives are at stake. No ev fire trucks please also.
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02-03-2023, 12:36 PM #1349
800v DCFC charging stations are still somewhat limited. AFAIK, there's only one in my town (with 2 cables). And it's always full on weekends. If you had to charge that car on 400v obviously the time would be double (so about the same time it takes for most current EVs). Home charging would still be L2.
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02-03-2023, 05:30 PM #1350
Friend in MX is looking for a PHEV in MX to only be used in MX. awd and higher clearance. Prefers compacts. Suggestions?
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