Electric car thread

[subtle plague]

Last week, I did a 1000 mile road trip in my gf’s new 2022 Chevy Bolt EUV. I wasn’t in a hurry, but didn’t find charging to be a nuisance at all using Electrify America DC fast charging. A little slower paced for sure, but it’s not like having to take a break every 200+ miles is the worst thing.

Why do you hate America?

[The AD]

Nobody is gonna buy an EV after reading that.

Certainly not as a road trip vehicle. The best performer (Tesla Model S) took a total of 16:14 to complete the 1000 miles, or an average speed of 61.5 mph. That's pretty good, but then you get down to the middle of the pack (Kia Niro) took 23:20, or less than 43 mph average speed with 6.5 hours spent at a charger, and that doesn't even include charging overnight.

[muted reborn]

Last week, I did a 1000 mile road trip in my gf’s new 2022 Chevy Bolt EUV. I wasn’t in a hurry, but didn’t find charging to be a nuisance at all using Electrify America DC fast charging. A little slower paced for sure, but it’s not like having to take a break every 200+ miles is the worst thing.

Exactly. But reading that article makes it sound like it's total chaos and a stressfest. Which it was for them, they weren't lying. But it doesn't have to be that hard to do road trips. Most are easy- just don't do a major miscalculation and yer fine. And start with a car with long range and fast charging, sure.

Article was pretty funny though. But their conclusions at the end all made them sound like dipshit Americans.

[PB]

Road trip =/= road race. Plenty of people are managing just fine making extended road trips, when properly planned. Impulsive road trips ....... not so much.

[frorider]

Exactly. But reading that article makes it sound like it's total chaos and a stressfest. Which it was for them, they weren't lying. But it doesn't have to be that hard to do road trips. Most are easy- just don't do a major miscalculation and yer fine. And start with a car with long range and fast charging, sure.

Article was pretty funny though. But their conclusions at the end all made them sound like dipshit Americans.

The 1000 mile trip ended up being an interesting race, one in which people had to optimize speed vs range and charge location vs charging speed etc. So naturally it created added stress. I had a day long road trip a decade ago where I planned to get gas in a lightly populated desert hub that had low prices…unfortunately there had been a huge ORV event that weekend and the two main stations were literally out of gas. I had enough left in the tank to make it to a station 50 miles away. Barely. The point of the race article was that if you’re putting time pressure on yourself, the current charge infrastructure esp in remote areas could create interesting situations.

But C&D has a pretty balanced view and if you read the other recent article https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ons-about-evs/ they’re pretty much saying Buy a fucking BEV soonish and don’t wait ten years for the solid state battery to hit the mainstream BEV market.

[adrenalated]

But C&D has a pretty balanced view and if you read the other recent article https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ons-about-evs/ they’re pretty much saying Buy a fucking BEV soonish and don’t wait ten years for the solid state battery to hit the mainstream BEV market.

This is a good segue into my semi-regular rant on why, if you are buying a daily driver, you should buy an EV even if you don't give a shit about the environmental side of things.

First, there are some prerequisites:
1) your daily driving is generally less than ~175mi/day
2) you have the ability to install a 240V charger at home or work (if you own a house this should be no issue even for street parking, if you rent or live in a condo/apt or rely on work it's still worth checking with your landlord/complex/HOA/boos/whatever because there are a lot of initiatives available to make installing chargers more enticing)
3) you own a second vehicle (if you still take road trips or drive longer distances regularly)

#3 won't be relevant in a couple years as the charging network continues to improve.

So why is an EV better for daily driving?
-they are much quieter and smoother. You don't know how much engine noise and vibration there is, until you don't have any.
-one pedal driving kicks ass for any city or traffic driving
-instant torque at all speeds is awesome, especially for passing on the freeway or on two lane rural highways
-fuel is cheaper and more convenient. Do you enjoy going to the gas station? No, of course you don't. With an EV you wake up in the morning with full fuel.
-maintenance is non-existent. Again, do you enjoy going to the mechanic? I do 99% of my own car maintenance and don't mind it, but I definitely don't miss doing oil changes and other such bullshit.
-the interior is more spacious than a similarly sized ICE, especially the backseat, because there's no need for a drivetrain tunnel.
-currently available EVs have plenty of range for most people, even in harsh climates. I drive 100-150 mi/day, in non-ideal EV conditions (80+mph on the freeway for over half of it), in winter and with snow tires, and have never come close to be stressed about range on my Bolt (240mi range nominal).

Right now my wife and I have three vehicles:
-2019 Bolt with 24,000mi. I'll be keeping this for the foreseeable future.
-2012 Forester with 65,000mi. Most likely we will sell this before it hits 100k and replace with a second EV. AWD small to mid size SUV, nominal range around 300mi, and affordable price will be the criteria, and new models coming out are very close to that. We could probably be fine with less range but don't want a car payment for another couple years anyway.
-2004 Tundra with 225k. Driving this until it dies, at which point we'll see how EV trucks are doing. This will be our hardest vehicle to switch to electric due to the realities of how we use it - significant off-road/away from grid use, slide-in camper, towing snowmobiles, etc. Will probably need 400-500mi nominal range to realistically get the actual range needed in the mountains in 4WD, and we won't be spending 100k on a truck. Decent chance this just gets replaced with another used truck. I suppose IF electric trucks git gud enough, we could downsize to two vehicles rather than three, but I think that's still going to be a bit.

[muted reborn]

I'll add that a 240 outlet with a simple plug adapter (not a wall unit) works great for a Tesla.

[adrenalated]

I'll add that a 240 outlet with a simple plug adapter (not a wall unit) works great for a Tesla.

Yeah, to be clear, the 240V outlet part is the challenge, not the EVSE. A lot of cars are coming with L2 EVSE's rather than L1 now and if they don't, they're easy enough to buy.
My old detached garage, for example, only had a 15A 120V circuit running to it.

[muted reborn]

I'm just saying people can buy a $40 adapter plug or a $400+ wall unit after getting the outlet installed. The car will can overnight with the $40 option. Just a FYI for others who are e-curious.

[carlh]

These are all good points but the only ev with good range that is cheap is the bolt which has garbage seats.

I am debating between a new tesla 3 and a cheap old hybrid (Prius or Highlander for <10k) for our second car. We have a trip car. The <200 mile evs are not worth it at current prices and the Tesla is much nicer than the other long range options at a similar cost IMO. I like the Tesla but 40k is a lot of money that could be used for fun things and a house payment.

This is a good segue into my semi-regular rant on why, if you are buying a daily driver, you should buy an EV even if you don't give a shit about the environmental side of things.

First, there are some prerequisites:
1) your daily driving is generally less than ~175mi/day
2) you have the ability to install a 240V charger at home or work (if you own a house this should be no issue even for street parking, if you rent or live in a condo/apt or rely on work it's still worth checking with your landlord/complex/HOA/boos/whatever because there are a lot of initiatives available to make installing chargers more enticing)
3) you own a second vehicle (if you still take road trips or drive longer distances regularly)

#3 won't be relevant in a couple years as the charging network continues to improve.

So why is an EV better for daily driving?
-they are much quieter and smoother. You don't know how much engine noise and vibration there is, until you don't have any.
-one pedal driving kicks ass for any city or traffic driving
-instant torque at all speeds is awesome, especially for passing on the freeway or on two lane rural highways
-fuel is cheaper and more convenient. Do you enjoy going to the gas station? No, of course you don't. With an EV you wake up in the morning with full fuel.
-maintenance is non-existent. Again, do you enjoy going to the mechanic? I do 99% of my own car maintenance and don't mind it, but I definitely don't miss doing oil changes and other such bullshit.
-the interior is more spacious than a similarly sized ICE, especially the backseat, because there's no need for a drivetrain tunnel.
-currently available EVs have plenty of range for most people, even in harsh climates. I drive 100-150 mi/day, in non-ideal EV conditions (80+mph on the freeway for over half of it), in winter and with snow tires, and have never come close to be stressed about range on my Bolt (240mi range nominal).

Right now my wife and I have three vehicles:
-2019 Bolt with 24,000mi. I'll be keeping this for the foreseeable future.
-2012 Forester with 65,000mi. Most likely we will sell this before it hits 100k and replace with a second EV. AWD small to mid size SUV, nominal range around 300mi, and affordable price will be the criteria, and new models coming out are very close to that. We could probably be fine with less range but don't want a car payment for another couple years anyway.
-2004 Tundra with 225k. Driving this until it dies, at which point we'll see how EV trucks are doing. This will be our hardest vehicle to switch to electric due to the realities of how we use it - significant off-road/away from grid use, slide-in camper, towing snowmobiles, etc. Will probably need 400-500mi nominal range to realistically get the actual range needed in the mountains in 4WD, and we won't be spending 100k on a truck. Decent chance this just gets replaced with another used truck. I suppose IF electric trucks git gud enough, we could downsize to two vehicles rather than three, but I think that's still going to be a bit.

[KQ]

When everything goes electric are they going to have to sell "loud car/truck" soundtracks for those who love to hear themselves drive? If so I imagine there will have to be a wide selection like "Mopar muscle car" and "Piss your neighbors off Flowmaster Super 40 Muffler."

[adrenalated]

Yeah, so I'll give a brief explanation of EV home charging for those e-curious because that's not unique to Tesla. Just depends on what kind of EVSE the car comes with.

Charging speeds:
Level 1 charging = charging off a 120V standard wall outlet. Too slow to be very useful.
Level 2 charging = charging off a 240V circuit, usually a 50A circuit is recommended. Same outlet that is usually used for electric dryers. How difficult it is to get 240V to your parking spot depends on how new your house is and how far away from the main electrical panel your parking spot it. This is what you want at home. Full charge overnight.
Level 3 charging = DC fast charging = high voltage fast chargers that you'll find at public facilities on highways and stuff. These are the chargers that give you the "80% charge in 45min" or whatever. Useful only for road trips, you won't be using these daily.

Plug types (vehicle end), there are four (in US):
Tesla - as implied, proprietary and unique to Tesla. This is why Tesla Superchargers can only charge Teslas. The Supercharger network gives Tesla an advantage for road trips, for now, until the main networks catch up.
J1772 - what everyone other than Tesla uses for L1 and L2 charging. Tesla sells an adapter to plug their cars into it.
CHAdeMO - Nissan Leaf L3 fast charging only. This adapter is going the way of the dodo and Nissan is supposedly eventually changing to CCS.
CCS/SAE - what everyone except Tesla and Leafs are using for L3 fast charging. It's just an expanded J1772 plug and is the standard. Tesla sells an adapter to plug their cars into it.

What is the charger?
The "charger" is the device that converts AC power to DC power, which is then delivered to the battery. For L1 and L2 charging, the charger is actually located in the car. For L3 charging, the charger is located in the station outside the car and when power is delivered to the car, it bypasses the on-board charger.

The device that connects to you 120V or 240V outlet is commonly called a charger, but it is technically an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). Basically, this device communicates with the on-board charger on the car and makes sure that the correct current is supplied, the plug is connected correctly, power is shut off when the battery is full, etc.

Every EV comes with an EVSE (AFAIK). So you just have to research and see what kind of EVSE is included. For example:
Tesla - I don't own one but per muted's posts I assume it comes with a L2 EVSE and then you just buy the adapter that fits your 240V plug
Chevy - 2021 and older came with a L1 EVSE. 2022 comes with a L2 EVSE so all you need is a 240V 50A outlet and you're good to go.
Many other brands only include a L1 EVSE because they're fucking cheapskates.

If your car only comes with a L1 EVSE then you have to buy a L2 EVSE to get reasonable charging speeds, which can be as cheap as $200 for Chinese off-brand ones on Amazon or around $400-$500 for a name brand with wifi and apps and shit and $500+ from the dealer for the branded one. Usually they hang on the wall and can be hardwired or plugged in.

Some companies offer incentives to help pay for the installation of a 240V outlet and EVSE but they're usually pretty vague on what that actually entails. Read the fine print.

In any case, the bulk of the expense is usually getting the 240V outlet in place if you don't have one already, not in the EVSE. It's all something you do have to consider when buying though.

[adrenalated]

These are all good points but the only ev with good range that is cheap is the bolt which has garbage seats.

The Nissan Leaf Plus and Hyundai Kona are similar MSRP and range as the Bolt, and the Kia Niro is just a bit more. Bolts are probably easiest to find discounts on.

"Garbage seats" is subjective. The common complaint I've heard is they are narrow (2021 and older). I'm skinny so they're fine for me. Supposedly the 2022 has new seats but I haven't sat in one yet.

[carlh]

When I test drove a bolt my back hurt due to lack of lumbar support after 10 minutes which is a bummer because I otherwise liked the car enough to buy a used one for 20k.
The Hyundai, Kia, leaf plus and id4 new are all close enough in price to a base Tesla 3 that the Tesla is a no brained with its better resale and driving experience.
They were leasing cheaper but not right now so I am tempted to buy something cheap until the market is no longer insane.

This is a good segue into my semi-regular rant on why, if you are buying a daily driver, you should buy an EV even if you don't give a shit about the environmental side of things.

First, there are some prerequisites:
1) your daily driving is generally less than ~175mi/day
2) you have the ability to install a 240V charger at home or work (if you own a house this should be no issue even for street parking, if you rent or live in a condo/apt or rely on work it's still worth checking with your landlord/complex/HOA/boos/whatever because there are a lot of initiatives available to make installing chargers more enticing)
3) you own a second vehicle (if you still take road trips or drive longer distances regularly)

#3 won't be relevant in a couple years as the charging network continues to improve.

So why is an EV better for daily driving?
-they are much quieter and smoother. You don't know how much engine noise and vibration there is, until you don't have any.
-one pedal driving kicks ass for any city or traffic driving
-instant torque at all speeds is awesome, especially for passing on the freeway or on two lane rural highways
-fuel is cheaper and more convenient. Do you enjoy going to the gas station? No, of course you don't. With an EV you wake up in the morning with full fuel.
-maintenance is non-existent. Again, do you enjoy going to the mechanic? I do 99% of my own car maintenance and don't mind it, but I definitely don't miss doing oil changes and other such bullshit.
-the interior is more spacious than a similarly sized ICE, especially the backseat, because there's no need for a drivetrain tunnel.
-currently available EVs have plenty of range for most people, even in harsh climates. I drive 100-150 mi/day, in non-ideal EV conditions (80+mph on the freeway for over half of it), in winter and with snow tires, and have never come close to be stressed about range on my Bolt (240mi range nominal).

Right now my wife and I have three vehicles:
-2019 Bolt with 24,000mi. I'll be keeping this for the foreseeable future.
-2012 Forester with 65,000mi. Most likely we will sell this before it hits 100k and replace with a second EV. AWD small to mid size SUV, nominal range around 300mi, and affordable price will be the criteria, and new models coming out are very close to that. We could probably be fine with less range but don't want a car payment for another couple years anyway.
-2004 Tundra with 225k. Driving this until it dies, at which point we'll see how EV trucks are doing. This will be our hardest vehicle to switch to electric due to the realities of how we use it - significant off-road/away from grid use, slide-in camper, towing snowmobiles, etc. Will probably need 400-500mi nominal range to realistically get the actual range needed in the mountains in 4WD, and we won't be spending 100k on a truck. Decent chance this just gets replaced with another used truck. I suppose IF electric trucks git gud enough, we could downsize to two vehicles rather than three, but I think that's still going to be a bit.

The Nissan Leaf Plus and Hyundai Kona are similar MSRP and range as the Bolt, and the Kia Niro is just a bit more. Bolts are probably easiest to find discounts on.

"Garbage seats" is subjective. The common complaint I've heard is they are narrow (2021 and older). I'm skinny so they're fine for me. Supposedly the 2022 has new seats but I haven't sat in one yet.

[adrenalated]

Yeah, that's fair. I didn't include the id.4 since you can't buy one yet, but it looks like a good car.

I kinda hate sedans and I don't want to have to use a touchscreen to turn on the fucking wipers so not going Model 3 was a no brainer for me.

[CascadeLuke]

Thanks for adding some color adrenalated. We’re aiming to pop our cherry on the Toyota BZ4X next year. I’ve been doing EV research.. agree it seems having additional gas vehicle especially one geared towards travel and mountains is key - we’ll pair with a TDI suv.

[Mazderati]

Cars will be the smartphone equivalent.

[muted reborn]

I didn't include the id.4 since you can't buy one yet, but it looks like a good car.

I just followed one to work today with temp tags, buyers orders must be getting delivered. Looks decent to me from the outside and the size roughly of a Rav4 or Forester which is sweet since it's a hatchback with fold-down seats.



carlh, all those cars have the same price but not the Tesla when you account for the government and state EV tax breaks. No government tax break for the Teslas anymore.

[adrenalated]

Nice. If I were buying for the wife next year it's probably be either the Toyota or the VW. Both good looking little SUVs.

I want to see/drive one of these (upcoming Kia EV6)

[rod9301]

Nice. If I were buying for the wife next year it's probably be either the Toyota or the VW. Both good looking little SUVs.

I want to see/drive one of these (upcoming Kia EV6)

That's a nice looking car

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[carlh]

I know the Tesla doesn’t get a tax break but it also holds resale value better than the others so costs the same if you sell it.
Seattle VW has 20+ id4s on the lot. They are nice inside if you go for the s version but generic driving and the cargo space is surprisingly small, about the same as a leaf and less than a niro.
I am a cheap ass and hoping to buy a house this year so leaning towards a used Toyota hybrid for <10k until post house purchase and market insanity.

[BmillsSkier]

Road trip =/= road race.

This just goes against every fiber of my being.

[Flyoverland Captive]

I witnessed a Tesla get t-boned today. Car is a total loss, driver walked away unharmed. Full airbag deployment. Impressive safety cage.

[highangle]

Why'd you hit him?

[bodywhomper]

Chevy bolt recall due battery fire hazard: https://my.chevrolet.com/how-to-supp...y/boltevrecall