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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post

    gas cars(AND WITHOUT SUBSIDIES); Tesla would not be in business if the country wasn't helping to pay for the cars thru subsidies.
    Oh man. Really?

    Tesla is 12th on the list way behind GM and Ford.

    https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst...op-100-parents

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    my neighbor does a 400 mile each way trip every other weekend with his X. says he doesn't mind the 30-60 minutes to recharge in the middle, times it with a meal. it'd drive me nuts.

    replacing pads on an economy car is <$100 in parts. changing the oil <$25. not saying that's nothing but many cars are dirt cheap to own these days.

    most exciting new electric car is the electric renault kwid >100 mile range for $9,000 new.
    It also doesn't need timing belt service, spark plug replacements, catalytic converter replacements, valve cover gasket and head gasket service, etc. etc. It's a much simpler machine with fewer moving parts to wear out and break. This matters significantly - especially if you care at all about cost and are therefore shopping the used market.

    Having said all that, if I were shopping new, the math would probably work out in favor of the new Prius AWD. The gas mileage is really impressive and the service intervals on the gas motor and the brakes, while not as good as never, are a lot better than a conventional ICE car from 20 years ago.

    Plus I'm sick of chaining this bitch up in the winter.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post
    (AND WITHOUT SUBSIDIES)
    No way in hell would I have bought a (new) Leaf without the subsidies, which in CO were worth half the invoice price of the car, making it cheaper than a Corolla. Also no way in hell I would have bought one as my only car. Frankly I wouldn't have bought one at all because, well, I enjoy driving cars that are enjoyable to drive, but it will primarily be my wife's car. An electric Mazda3, Civic or Golf with an upgraded suspension would make a damn good commuter/grocery getter to go with a bigger car with AWD and ground clearance. Shouldn't be long before we have some better options.

    I have a buddy with a plug in Fusion. He can charge at home and work and uses no gas on his commute. Says it saves him about $800 a year.

  4. #54
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    Hybrids were once subsidized with tax credits too.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Oh man. Really?

    Tesla is 12th on the list way behind GM and Ford.

    https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst...op-100-parents

    clarifying again, subsidies on electric cars; as this is an electric car thread and tesla is an electric car only company.

    okay pumpkin.
    Eat em up Houston Cougars !

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    It also doesn't need timing belt service, spark plug replacements, catalytic converter replacements, valve cover gasket and head gasket service, etc. etc.
    I get the feeling reading lots of these posts noone on the forum ever owned a cheap ICE car made after 2000 that wasn't a subaru. for most of the others service costs are pretty damn low - not zero - but low. other factors (parts availability, build quality) matter for service costs too. I can't ever remember replacing a catalytic converter on a car and I've owned cars to 300k+ miles.

    single biggest cost for a cheap car is tires.
    Last edited by dunfree ; 09-12-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post
    yes, until those issues are resolved; electric cars are inferior. electric cars have been able to be built for decades, if they were competitive with gas cars(AND WITHOUT SUBSIDIES); there would already be charging stations all over. Tesla would not be in business if the country wasn't helping to pay for the cars thru subsidies.
    You never miss an opportunity to show what a complete dipshit tool you are. Keep on Skougin'!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    You never miss an opportunity to show what a complete dipshit tool you are. Keep on Skougin'!
    maybe so Dan, maybe so.

    However, the facts remain Tesla makes it because the taxpayer keeps it afloat thru subsidies.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-sales-implode

    "Denmark, or his own bank account and shareholders, but he was absolutely correct: in 2015 Tesla sold a total of 2,738 cars in Denmark. In 2016 the number dropped by 94% to just 176 units."

    I'd say a 94% drop without subsidies is pretty serious.
    Eat em up Houston Cougars !

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    This is scary indeed. The Brits do not know how to wire stuff.
    Exactly what I have been going on about.

  10. #60
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    The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post
    I'd say a 94% drop without subsidies is pretty serious.
    At the time, in 2016, Denmark was the only country in Europe where EV sales were down. That's because the government cut taxes on ICE cars by up to 10% in an attempt get people into newer safer cars but they also let the tax cuts for EVs expire.

    In other words, they subsidized gas and diesel cars and de-subsidized electric cars making them cost more on top of the existing price differential. Since then the government reversed course and all cars are taxed the same. Now EV sales are back at 2015 levels.

    Tesla sales still aren't great but that's because in Denmark EVs are taxed at 20% for cars priced below $60K and 40% for any amount over $60K.

  12. #62
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    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
    Is it British electronics?
    I still call it The Jake.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Is it British electronics?
    That new Land Rover is kinda cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    That new Land Rover is kinda cool.
    Firm believer in the thread-drift that I am I will admit that I've been looking forward to discussing the new Defender here and this thread is as good as any.

    It's sharp. I like the back, the front is decent but will have to grow on me I think. The 90 is where it's at (minus the optional "floating" accent piece-cum-massive-blind-spot), and I LOVE that you can get basic, white steel wheels on the damned thing to match the white roof.


    And thank God it's made in Slovenia. Because, as we all know, saying something is handmade in Britain is just another way of saying the doors are going to fall off.

    - J. Clarkson
    I still call it The Jake.

  16. #66
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    So much electronics for a vehicle like that. Itíll be interesting to hear how they hold up or what happens to vehicle operations when some of the less important electronics fail.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Firm believer in the thread-drift that I am I will admit that I've been looking forward to discussing the new Defender here and this thread is as good as any.

    It's sharp.
    Itīs an abnormality, a travesty.
    It needs to be put into sleep in its crib (after being massaged with a sharp rock) and thrown into Euphrates.

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum Pete View Post
    ..... almost everyone said they wouldn't buy one because of range anxiety for the 3 times per year they drove a long distance. Most of those folks live in households with more than one car. What gives? Why can't people put the pieces together?
    I agree, although I too had some irrational range anxiety too, buying an electric car. I was ready for some compromise and inconvenience though.

    One year later, 14k miles, and I've never once stopped to charge it. Only charge it at my house. Anytime I'm home (or I bike to work) my wife takes it instead of her SUV (our road trip car) so the SUV miles have been cut drastically. With 300 miles of range, I can drive it fast, charge every other or third night, I don't need the aero wheels on, I have a roof rack and box and it doesn't matter, and I want to get it lifted a hair, aerodynamics be damned (I scrape bottom a lot on it). So much for a compromise purchase, it's working out better than I thought. I think people in 2-car families just have to try it like you said.

    Just give me a fucking manual knob for the wipers though, fuck that drives me nuts.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post
    clarifying again, subsidies on electric cars; as this is an electric car thread and tesla is an electric car only company.

    okay pumpkin.
    Man, you are probably a nice guy, but damn you can be so far off base sometimes. Subsidies are subsidies. Electric, gas, farming. Doesn't matter. So I guess you're statement about Tesla not being in business without subsidies was for what exactly? I can make one also. GM would not be in business selling gas cars if we did not bail them out and continue to give them subsidies annually. But hey, at least the CEO is making 21-22 mil a year. Winning!

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeaniecary View Post
    Get back to Home before its too dark.
    OK mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    I get the feeling reading lots of these posts noone on the forum ever owned a cheap ICE car made after 2000 that wasn't a subaru. for most of the others service costs are pretty damn low - not zero - but low. other factors (parts availability, build quality) matter for service costs too. I can't ever remember replacing a catalytic converter on a car and I've owned cars to 300k+ miles.

    single biggest cost for a cheap car is tires.
    You might want to keep track of these costs better. On a $10,000.00 used ICE car, you're looking at an extra couple grand in maintenance costs over it's service life, no problem, in addition to gas. That's an extra 20 percent of the cap! Maybe that kind of money doesn't matter to you; most consumers just don't include it in their mental accounting very well. But if you cringe at wasting money on the car the way I do, it matters.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    You might want to keep track of these costs better. On a $10,000.00 used ICE car, you're looking at an extra couple grand in maintenance costs over it's service life, no problem, in addition to gas. That's an extra 20 percent of the cap! Maybe that kind of money doesn't matter to you; most consumers just don't include it in their mental accounting very well. But if you cringe at wasting money on the car the way I do, it matters.
    Seriously. ESPECIALLY if you keep your cars as long as many of us do when you really start getting hammered on the high mileage biggies like timing belt services, transmission/radiator/differential/etc fluid swaps, belts and hoses, motor mounts, so on and so forth. Another EV/hybrid bonus is that it's typically EXTREMELY rare to ever have to service brakes due to the regenerative braking properties. Especially if you set it to "high." My current cars have both been great in all reality, but as I'm approaching 200K on both, I'm starting to get nickle and dimed to death. The utter lack of regular maintenance needed on an EV is starting to look seriously attractive right now. And it's not just costs, but time in the shop. Every time you have to make a trip to the mechanic for all these little items is a serious time suck when you add it all up. Maintanence costs have been very high this year due to all the regular items needed at this mileage. Nothing out of the ordinary. Just regular maintenance, but geez it adds up. I've spent thousands this year on it all and I'm still not done due to lack of funds.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    I've been driving a Leaf as my commuter car/grocery getter. It's cheap enough that it is not my "nice" car. It's also dirt fucking cheap to own and operate. Because of the steep depreciation curve, you can pick up used 3 year old lease returns with 30k on the odometer for 10 grand, give or take.

    The total cost of ownership math gets really friendly, really fast. I've never had an oil change or a brake job. At 60k, I've gone through one set of tires and one cabin air filter. Oh, and a set of wiper blades. Stack that on top of the fuel savings and the cheap purchase price, and I figure it's mile-for-mile the cheapest thing I could drive.

    By the time I hit 100k on it, the battery degradation will probably destine it for the great Panasonic recycling facility in the sky unless there are legit aftermarket battery pack refurb options by then. But that's fine. I'll just buy another one for 10 grand again.
    This is pretty spot on.

    A lot of pretty lame excuses throughout this thread....

    We're trying to get an electric vehicle into our family quiver, I drive one 95% of the time for work... In the mean time we're over 30 mpg between a wagon and an SUV with third row.

  24. #74
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    So all of you dentites driving electric cars, are you getting free charges somewhere? Not sure how you can skip the cost of a charge in yearly operating expenses?

  25. #75
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    riser, who skipped the cost? is everyone calculating gas expenses in their ICE cars in this thread then? what are you trying to say and to who, without me going back though pages of comments?

    On that note, one cost that is rarely mentioned: my first year of savings from gas is almost negated by the purchase of and installation of a car charger in my garage.

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