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  1. #26
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    Whatever limitations there may or may not be with a Tacoma, you'll make up for it in the fact you'll get 500 000 k's out of it. 373 000 on my 2007 and it runs like a charm.

  2. #27
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    Sep 2010
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    Sounds like you’ve sold yourself on the truck, which I agree. If I were you I’d really consider a full size, my 9yo complains about space in my Tacoma so my POV is any drive over 30 min with an adult in the back seat is no bueno, especially if you have to store any gear back there. I’d go F150.


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  3. #28
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    Oct 2010
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    If you're gonna do any offroading I'd reconsider going for a lease. You'll get hammered for damages when you have to return it... Unless you keep it... But then why lease?

  4. #29
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    Get a truck. With some weight in the bed they handle way better in the snow than any suv or car....
    I guess it's been a while since you drove a handling-oriented car or mid-size or smaller SUV to compare. Modern trucks handle incredibly well for trucks, but they can't touch even an econobox, let alone a sporty car, in handling. The physics just don't work that way.
    y
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    -Do you want to tow? Taco has a 6k lb max, not all that much
    -Carry camper? Payload limit a little north of 1200. Again, weak.
    -Carry people? Stuffing people in the backseat is admittedly pretty unkind
    -Sleep in it? You've slept in a minivan, sleeping in the truck bed is like that but colder and more uncomfortable, and that's WITH a platform and air mattress.
    Payload is the elephant in the room on a lot of these suggestions, particularly with mid-sized trucks. Want to carry four American-sized adults? That's probably 800-1000 pounds, maybe more if they're also from Texas. That doesn't leave a whole lot of headroom for ski gear, bikes, or your sleeping platform. If you're going to add 300-400 pounds to the truck with a shell and sleeping platform, keep that in mind while shopping. I'll assume the above payload is correct for a Taco; for a current-generation F-150 most of them are in the 1400-2100 pound payload range (higher-trim trucks, like Platinum, would be towards the lower end of that; a minimally equipped 3.5L Ecoboost or 5.0L would be at the top end).

    If you're going to be shuttling, you'll probably be over payload. I've had something like 10 guys in my truck (with ski gear) for that purpose, and I'm sure I was overweight (in an F-150). But hopefully you're not trying to drive aggressively with a bed full of people, so that's not a huge deal in that use case. If you want to put six guys in the cab and drive 40 minutes to the trailhead for mountain biking, I'd be more concerned about that (although you probably don't want six guys in the cab, especially on the way back from mountain biking).

    If you want to put a full-on camper in a mini truck, or even in a half-ton, you'll need to look at payload even more closely. I looked at that, briefly, and came to the conclusion that aside from some of the ultralight options, my F-150 wasn't nearly capable of handling a camper, let alone a camper and multiple passengers and gear. Not saying that people don't do it—a friend of mine had a heavy-ass camper in the back of her F-150, and it was manageable although a pig, especially in the snow (gave up a lot of 4x4 capability with the back loaded). And if you get it stuck axle-deep, it's gonna be really stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    Also, in terms of off-roading, I know that in the front range at least there's at least a handful (or more) spots that you can't go get to the spring skimo TH easily without a 4x4 which is kind of what makes me inclined to get one. I'm not sure if it's similar in the PNW? If I'm going to go and get an SUV, I'm sort of limited to the truck-style ones which I don't see as being any better than a DCLB Taco? They probably drive similar, get about the same MPG, but overall less versatile. And if I'm going the non 4x4 route, I might as well get a that AWD Toyota Sienna and put a lift kit on it.

    Again though, I'm probably jumping the gun because I really don't know my use case, but since I need a vehicle now I just thought I'd start thinking about it. Looking at prices though, what I may end up doing is just getting a used CR-V or similar for the time being and then picking up a used Taco when I have the time to spend to research it and subsequently build out the truck bed. Seems like a much more economical solution than leasing.
    I'll throw this out there: your budget doesn't allow for getting a truck now unless you get really lucky, or prices near you are far better than they are in most places. $10k gets disturbingly little used 4x4, which means you're usually talking high mileage and/or thoroughly aged and need to budget for repairs and maintenance. That also means that you (and indirectly, your lender) are taking a bigger risk with the financing. If you can't pay cash, I'd either go cheaper or go more expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tortoise View Post
    If you're gonna do any offroading I'd reconsider going for a lease. You'll get hammered for damages when you have to return it... Unless you keep it... But then why lease?
    I'm with him on that one. I do think that your argument for a lease—to really live with a vehicle to see if it fits—makes some sense, but using a truck as a truck when you don't own it seems like you're likely to get hammered on wear-and-tear. It also means that you can't make modifications to improve the truck's functionality for your use case unless they're easily reversible. That can even affect the calculus on things like snow tires; a second set of tires mounted on rims have some opportunity cost but close to no long-term marginal cost if you keep the vehicle long enough to wear out both sets of tires. If you're only going to have the vehicle for a few years, that totally changes the math.

    One other thing to consider on the SUV vs truck argument: a truck with a solid camper shell should be ok, but an SUV or van is probably more secure for sleeping inside. This matters both if you want to snooze in a potentially sketchy rest area and if you want to camp in bear country.

    If you can afford to buy something cheaper outright now and figure out how to make it work for sleeping, then drive it into the ground (hopefully not anytime soon) while making a car payment to yourself, ,you might be able to have your pick of options next time around (and have a better idea of your actual use case). Moving can have a big impact on that; I drive an F-150 that made a lot of sense when I was living in Montana with a pair of sleds in the driveway and lots of rough USFS roads around. I brought it back to Maine with me, and at this point an AWD wagon would probably fit my life better, but I'm committed to the truck at this point.

    All of the above IMO, of course.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    I guess it's been a while since you drove a handling-oriented car or mid-size or smaller SUV to compare. Modern trucks handle incredibly well for trucks, but they can't touch even an econobox, let alone a sporty car, in handling. The physics just don't work that way.
    .
    We actually get this thing out west called snow. It can be deep at times. Good luck with a smaller or mid size suv getting out of the driveway. Secondly trucks have real transfer cases and real 4wd. Those all wheel drive suvs are useless once you leave pavement. Finally a loaded truck does handle way better than a loaded suv due to physics. Trucks have longer wheelbases and the beds are physically separated from the cab. That significantly reduces roll and is why trucks suvs all have roll over warnings on the visors and trucks don’t.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    I guess it's been a while since you drove a handling-oriented car or mid-size or smaller SUV to compare. Modern trucks handle incredibly well for trucks, but they can't touch even an econobox, let alone a sporty car, in handling. The physics just don't work that way.
    Yeah Gunder, I think you’re whipped into a little bit of a frenzy about your pick up truck there. The only place they’re better is because of clearance, and btw:
    Also somebody mentioned Washington trailheads. Depends on the trail head, but most of them are plowed to the trail head and the ones I go to it’s a mix of Subarus and econoboxes and pick up trucks towing snowmobiles.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  7. #32
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    Dec 2007
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    If you think a truck bed camper might be in your foreseeable future, don't bother with any truck that isn't full sized. And if you're planning on using that camper in the winter, then you're really going to want a 3/4 ton at a minimum.

  8. #33
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    its fishing season so I drive trucks down stream for fishermen, everything from SUV's to old rangers to rented super duty diesels so this is when I get the new truck envy , sometime 3 different trucks in 3hrs which make me realize they are all a compromise so "what do you need to do and did you buy the wrong truck" is the real question ?

    my ranger was small but very cheap when I bought it, I just traded up for the 4 door long box Tacoma which will also get nothing more than some skis or a mtn bike throw in the back and so mid is the perfect size for me

    I've expedited a ski hut with a 4 door Tacoma, 5 adults (fat americans eh?) and their gear, I wouldn't want to drive across canada like that but for a short drive to/from the chopper LZ no problem

    I had a 90 4runer which Toyota fixed the head gasskette on after 7 years, they put a new frame under Angle Parking's truck on warranty, its pretty hard to argue about a company that stands behind their product like that and if I need a bigger truck this one will be very easy to flog

    If you need to tow you might need the big diesel but the local freelance mechanic ( Lance ) told me any time a diesel comes in count on a 5000$ repair bill

    I'm thinking of one of them 4 wheel campers for the tacoma, the stripped shell is < 1000lbs
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #34
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    Sep 2018
    Posts
    53
    4 Wheel drive extended Ford Aerostar. 97's have the 5 speed automatic and talk about room! I've been through 2 and wish I hadn't sold my last one. KYB gas-adjust shocks eliminated body roll and they do very well in snow with the long wheel base. Tracked straight / held traction in everything. If you find a good one, it will be an inexpensive (although dated) ride with more room than you'll know what to do with. Compromises? it is a half ton chassis (loads) and ground clearance (un-plowed roads). Spark plug changes are a bitch too.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    351
    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    Also, in terms of off-roading, I know that in the front range at least there's at least a handful (or more) spots that you can't go get to the spring skimo TH easily without a 4x4 which is kind of what makes me inclined to get one. I'm not sure if it's similar in the PNW? If I'm going to go and get an SUV, I'm sort of limited to the truck-style ones which I don't see as being any better than a DCLB Taco? They probably drive similar, get about the same MPG, but overall less versatile. And if I'm going the non 4x4 route, I might as well get a that AWD Toyota Sienna and put a lift kit on it.

    Again though, I'm probably jumping the gun because I really don't know my use case, but since I need a vehicle now I just thought I'd start thinking about it. Looking at prices though, what I may end up doing is just getting a used CR-V or similar for the time being and then picking up a used Taco when I have the time to spend to research it and subsequently build out the truck bed. Seems like a much more economical solution than leasing.
    PNW where? As a rule, if the road isn't passable without 4x4 the Forest service will close it. Having a go at a service road in deep snow with an off-the-shelf rig is a recipe for getting stuck. The only roads I can think of where having it is -maybe- a benefit is the road up to Mt. Adams early in the season. High clearance is also nice getting out of the lot on storm days.

    You mentioned a possible camper: Do NOT get a mid-size truck if you have camper ambitions. You'll be hamstrung by the payload limits and curse yourself.

    Honestly OP if you're thinking truck you should be looking for is a 3-4 year old F150 with the 3.5L Turbo or the V8. Flexible, can be had cheap-ish, decent truck milage, and you can grow into it capability-wise. If you're not tied to getting a truck, get a Subaru like everyone else here and dirt-bag it in the back when you need to. You'll thank yourself on the daily commute.

    Also, as I'm sure other people have noted, leasing is fucking stupid

  11. #36
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    leasing can be cheaper than buying, the caveat is that interest rates have to be HIGH as in > 14% and you need to pay the vehical off in < 2years

    SO there has to be super high interest rates which we haven't had for a long time and you then gotta make super high monthly payments
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #37
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    Oct 2015
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    I may be the only one with this opinion, but I was driving a company provided 2015 ~3 hours per day and I thought the seats fucking sucked. Screwed my back up sitting in that thing day in day out.

    Basically has enough capacity to have the fun outdoor status toys in it, but isn't much good I'd you need actual payload

  13. #38
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by char_ View Post
    I may be the only one with this opinion, but I was driving a company provided 2015 ~3 hours per day and I thought the seats fucking sucked. Screwed my back up sitting in that thing day in day out.

    Basically has enough capacity to have the fun outdoor status toys in it, but isn't much good I'd you need actual payload
    Are you talking about a Tacoma?

  14. #39
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    Are you talking about a Tacoma?
    Heh, yeah. Whoops.

  15. #40
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    I'm 5"8" , what size are you ? Seats seem fine for me on 4 hr trips which is the longest I've driven in one go

    I got the Mid size cuz I never carry payload

    I just carry the fun status toys
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I'm 5"8" , what size are you ? Seats seem fine for me on 4 hr trips which is the longest I've driven in one go

    I got the Mid size cuz I never carry payload

    I just carry the fun status toys
    5'10".

  17. #42
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    Apr 2007
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    Bethel, Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    We actually get this thing out west called snow. It can be deep at times. Good luck with a smaller or mid size suv getting out of the driveway. Secondly trucks have real transfer cases and real 4wd. Those all wheel drive suvs are useless once you leave pavement. Finally a loaded truck does handle way better than a loaded suv due to physics. Trucks have longer wheelbases and the beds are physically separated from the cab. That significantly reduces roll and is why trucks suvs all have roll over warnings on the visors and trucks don’t.
    Yes, no shit, if you need clearance, you probably need a truck (or something built on a truck frame), with a few exceptions (the Cherokee comes to mind, but good luck sleeping in one). That doesn't change the fact that you give up a lot of handling by going to a larger vehicle and lifting it further off the ground.

    Anecdotally, both my '03 Suburban and my '00 XTerra were much better-balanced than my 2017 F-150 is (and it's a crew cab, not a regular or supercab). Some of that is probably perception due to the power differences—the EB has a silly amount of it—but the Suburban and the XTerra were both a lot easier to keep in a controlled powerslide than the F-150 is. I'm fairly sure I'd have to put a lot of weight in the back to counter-balance it to the point where it matched either of those SUVs (I'm at 3500 pounds on the front and 2300 on the rear), and adding that much weight to balance seems like it would create a substantially worse pendulum effect that would be likely to overwhelm the traction. I guess I just need to load it up this winter and find out. FWIW to the OP, the Suburban would be pretty easy to flip down the seats and sleep in, but you give up most of the cargo capacity doing so.

    How does separating the body at the midline help prevent rollovers, aside from not having weight up high from a roof structure? (I'm genuinely curious, I can't picture the physics of a bed vs a cargo area having that much of an impact in that regard).

  18. #43
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    Delica l300 starwagon. 4x4, van, diesel, and awesome.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    How does separating the body at the midline help prevent rollovers, aside from not having weight up high from a roof structure? (I'm genuinely curious, I can't picture the physics of a bed vs a cargo area having that much of an impact in that regard).
    . 20 years ago, back in engineering school we did a dynamic loads case study on this. From what I remember, on pickup trucks the only thing that connects the bed load to the front cab is the frame, down low on the vehicle vs. on a van / suv the entire body is connect across. By only having the frame connect, very low on the vehicle its effectively separates the very heavy engine weight from the weight of the cargo in the bed. Thus counteracting it.

  20. #45
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    Jan 2017
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    Well here's an update for ya:

    In order to check out used cars, I ended up renting a Tacoma DCSB TRD from Hertz (just by chance) and so I got to drive it first hand. I see what people mean. It's like...a car but with a truck bed. Drove pretty nice and all, but the bed and back seats are tiny! I think I realized my idea that having a mid-size truck as a do-it-all vehicle is a pipe dream. They are good for very particular things, but honestly not the niche area that I am interested in. If I had the space, it seems like it would make more sense to have an all around vehicle and then a full-size truck if I'm serious about this camper thing. In reality too, if I'm going to end up working a 9-5 job (likely) needing a dirtbag rig for anything more than a long weekend or about a week is unlikely. I can deal with a suboptimal sleeping setup in that case. I also don't need a ton of storage in that case, which is what I liked about the minivan.

    What really got me interested in the Tacoma though was the idea that the engine and drivetrain is pretty bulletproof, but I guess so are a lot of Toyotas...

    Anyways, to wrap all this up in the end I got a 2006 Subaru Outback...but because I like to make "exciting" choices I bought a completely stock, XT 5-speed *knock on wood*. I'm thinking about adding a small lift and some off-road wheels/tires and seeing how that combo does for me overall. Super fun to drive and as a platform, probably makes more sense than a truck.

  21. #46
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    Aug 2006
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    Ya missed the opportunity to get a Baja!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    Well here's an update for ya:

    In order to check out used cars, I ended up renting a Tacoma DCSB TRD from Hertz (just by chance) and so I got to drive it first hand. I see what people mean. It's like...a car but with a truck bed. Drove pretty nice and all, but the bed and back seats are tiny! I think I realized my idea that having a mid-size truck as a do-it-all vehicle is a pipe dream. They are good for very particular things, but honestly not the niche area that I am interested in. If I had the space, it seems like it would make more sense to have an all around vehicle and then a full-size truck if I'm serious about this camper thing. In reality too, if I'm going to end up working a 9-5 job (likely) needing a dirtbag rig for anything more than a long weekend or about a week is unlikely. I can deal with a suboptimal sleeping setup in that case. I also don't need a ton of storage in that case, which is what I liked about the minivan.

    What really got me interested in the Tacoma though was the idea that the engine and drivetrain is pretty bulletproof, but I guess so are a lot of Toyotas...

    Anyways, to wrap all this up in the end I got a 2006 Subaru Outback...but because I like to make "exciting" choices I bought a completely stock, XT 5-speed *knock on wood*. I'm thinking about adding a small lift and some off-road wheels/tires and seeing how that combo does for me overall. Super fun to drive and as a platform, probably makes more sense than a truck.
    Sounds like a good choice for your needs!

    edit to add: But for the love of gawd, don't get a rooftop tent!
    Last edited by 3PinGrin; 09-12-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  23. #48
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    Oct 2008
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    Grey Tacoma is the official ski touring / MTB truck. Slap a TGR sticker on there and consider your virtues signaled.

    Subaru Outback is simply the car analog.... is yours green?
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  24. #49
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    Dec 2016
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    In a van... down by the river
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    <snip>
    Anyways, to wrap all this up in the end I got a 2006 Subaru Outback...but because I like to make "exciting" choices I bought a completely stock, XT 5-speed *knock on wood*.
    Oh... my... goodness.


  25. #50
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    Mar 2017
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    Seattle
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    Good move, but unless you're a chronic tinkerer, skip the lift. I had a first gen outback with the forester strut "lift" and imo, the slight clearance improvement and street cred isn't worth the body roll, road noise, decreased power and increased wear on consumable components. Cars tunes are more sensitive to tire size than trucks, and the fronts are stuffed so far in there that you can't go all that much bigger. Anyway, subaru is pretty solid on clearance stats, unlike the late, almost-great golf alltrack

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