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Thread: Cali Dive Boat tragedy
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09-13-2019, 09:31 AM #176
Oh man. That’s just terrible to hear.
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09-13-2019, 09:33 AM #177
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09-13-2019, 09:38 AM #178
I’m no merchant marine, but I believe sleeping on watch is keel hauling offense.
I’m also curious to see the results of The toxicology reports. Not making any judgement about what anyone was smoking that night, but being a legal state, I’d say chances are high someone is going to fail. It won’t help.
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09-13-2019, 09:48 AM #179
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09-13-2019, 10:06 AM #180
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09-13-2019, 10:20 AM #181
They already tested them for booze, everyone was clean. It would be hard for me to believe all crew would be clean of THC, just given the industry...and, well, California.
Even the rescue boat in the harbor heard an explosion, not sure someone awake could have prevented the inferno, but; it sure would not have hurt.
That said, NTSB will release its full report in 12-18 months...a long waiting game for salivating lawyers.
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09-13-2019, 11:29 AM #182
Reg says someone stands watch so that what happened wouldn't happen.
Crew members all asleep either because the assigned watch was derelict or the master was derelict by not assigning someone to the watch.
Bromontane: "Yea but rules are dumb because nobody will follow them."
FFS
"Social normalization of deviance means that people within the organization become so much accustomed to a deviant behavior that they don't consider it as deviant, despite the fact that they far exceed their own rules for the elementary safety" -Diane Vaughan
Ever heard the phrase "running a tight ship" or similar? Where/how/why do you think that term originated?
This goes back to the idea of a "top notch dive op" as judged by satisfied customers. Hey we see it in healthcare... good hospital? I dunno, how quickly did you get pain meds and was the nurse nice? Or what is their hand washing compliance rate and their hospital acquired infection rate? Is that a good airline because the stewardess gave you a free drink or because they have excellent training and high safety compliance?Originally Posted by blurred
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09-13-2019, 11:41 AM #183
It's not just that boats are smaller and tighter, they are often constructed and finished with materials that give off thick toxic smoke when they smolder and burn. In contrast, even though residential and commercial buildings still burn the building materials are required to have a fire-resistance rating for x amount of time so occupants can escape.
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09-13-2019, 11:47 AM #184
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09-13-2019, 11:48 AM #185
Safety watches are there to cover for when things inevitably go wrong. This concept, at sea, predates any modern government that drafted regulations codifying watch requirements.
A. Is Normalization of Deviance. You cure that by no longer tolerating it. Making an example is usually part of that process. 34 bodies might be example enough without further punitive action, but then shouldn't have the worry of such outcomes sufficed in the first place? I think they used to "hang ye from the yard arm" in the old days. Now it is probably getting fined or having a license revoked.
B. No conclusive proof that this was a battery fire. IF it was, don't think someone might try to address that issue by drafting a set of instructions on what is or is not permitted relating to battery handling... you could call it... I dunno.. a regulation? Of course, you have to follow it for it to be effective, perhaps with inspections and consequences for failing to abide?Originally Posted by blurred
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09-13-2019, 11:58 AM #186
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09-13-2019, 12:00 PM #187
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09-13-2019, 12:16 PM #188Banned
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09-13-2019, 12:55 PM #189
an anchor watch in the today's modern world:
Scientists now have decisive molecular evidence that humans and chimpanzees once had a common momma and that this lineage had previously split from monkeys.
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09-13-2019, 01:17 PM #190Funky But Chic
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Yeah that's the thing ^^^the regs are not clear on the definition of "anchor watch" that I have seen. In the old days yeah somebody had to be awake but now GPS will alert you that you're dragging if you set it, which is the same function somebody being awake used to perform. However it was reported in this thread that their certificate of operation required somebody to be awake, so, yeah.
The owner of the company is reported as saying a crew member checked things half an hour before the fire. Whether that's true or not I don't know. But if a GPS anchor watch is set and somebody checks shit from time to time, that would normally be plenty. However if their certificate required different...
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09-13-2019, 01:45 PM #191Banned
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https://dictionary.thelaw.com/anchor-watch/
Anchor Watch
THELAW.COM LAW DICTIONARY & BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 2ND ED.
A watch, consisting of a small number of men, (from one to four,) kept constantly on deck while the vessel is riding at single anchor, to see that the stoppers, painters, cables, and buoy ropes are ready for immediate use. The Lady Franklin, 2 Lowell, 220, Fed. Cas. No. 7,984.
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09-13-2019, 01:59 PM #192Funky But Chic
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A dictionary is not law. It makes absolutely zero difference to anything what a dictionary says. Prior cases may or may not be relevant to this case.
But anyways all of that is about assigning blame and I think sometimes shit just happens and this is one of those times. Nobody needs to be crucified because somebody may possibly have fallen asleep in a protected anchorage 40 feet from shore.
The chargers and batteries on the other hand...yeah that's relevant and important
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09-13-2019, 02:45 PM #193Banned
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09-13-2019, 02:54 PM #194
Mtngirl, Esq.
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09-13-2019, 02:59 PM #195Funky But Chic
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09-13-2019, 03:03 PM #196
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09-13-2019, 03:05 PM #197
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09-13-2019, 03:11 PM #198Banned
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Actually, the law attempts to define words and phrases because that makes the law consistant. A law dictionary contains legal definitions... then cites the case or cases where it was decided.
At least that's my understanding. Plenty of lawyers here to tell me I'm wrong. You aren't one of them.
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09-13-2019, 03:19 PM #199Funky But Chic
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09-13-2019, 03:23 PM #200Registered User
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at least they died doing what they loved
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