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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeLuke View Post
    ^^think this is pretty on the money.

    To the anti agent commenters- if the buyer presents offer with an agent, what do you do then? Just ride bare while they have a pro?
    In this case, of course you would need to pay the buyers agent. It is no secret that the 6% commission is paid 3% to buyer's agent and 3% to brokers agent. Furthermore, each 3% commission is somehow split between agent and broker. The only money that iceman can save in this case is the 3% that he pays to his agent/broker (or 1 or 2% if he is feeling charitible). If the buyer comes with an agent then the agent deserves to be paid. However, if the buyer came 10 months ago, he can certainly return without an agent (unless an agent is still showing him around).
    Regarding your last question, that is why lawyers are required in some states (especially on the ice coast)
    A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
    ― Milton Friedman

  2. #52
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    I'd say Iceman owes the 3% to the buyer's agent if it is in the offer. If not then...

  3. #53
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    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The realtor did list your property, they did show pictures of your house that the potential buyer saw, (that the realtor took, I'm understanding?), and the potential customer did view your house through some other efforts caused by your realtor. The realtor did real work on this. Houses are expensive and can take time to decide on.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    You would think, but if there's one thing I've learned about realtors over the years, it's that they get SUPER butthurtz if you decided not to use them, no matter how ineffective they may have been in finding a buyer. To many of them, even "friends" of yours, it's either 6% or nothing. Not all are that way. The ones who hustle will gladly take that 1% over 0%, especially if all they have to do is help with the paperwork and closing on a big sale, but in my experience in a high dollar market, if it's under a million dollar sale or you even HINT at perhaps giving you even a tiny bit of a break on the full commission, they're not even interested in bothering. Haha.
    You were a GC right? Imagine that industry standard is cost plus 6. Then the "competitive" guys are bidding plus 5. So the "hungry" guys start bidding plus 4. So the "new" guys start bidding plus 3...

    Everyone is try to protect themselves from a race to the bottom.

  5. #55
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    Real estate agent buddy of mine says if the holdover period is over, you owe him nothing. If you need help from the RA closing the deal then of course pay him.

  6. #56
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    Yeah but a GC actually has to invest in tools, trucks, can get hurt for life etc. Not to mention will build you an entire fucking house.

    The realtor has to show up for an hour and unlock a door, then process some paper. The level of effort involved just isn't remotely comparable.
    Live Free or Die

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Yeah but a GC actually has to invest in tools, trucks, can get hurt for life etc. Not to mention will build you an entire fucking house.

    The realtor has to show up for an hour and unlock a door, then process some paper. The level of effort involved just isn't remotely comparable.
    Yea but who is going to show you where the kitchen is?




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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    You were a GC right? Imagine that industry standard is cost plus 6. Then the "competitive" guys are bidding plus 5. So the "hungry" guys start bidding plus 4. So the "new" guys start bidding plus 3...

    Everyone is try to protect themselves from a race to the bottom.
    The problem I have with realtors is they have no "cost" in the game. The owner owns the house. They have time and money wrapped up in advertising/showing, but to say cost + is not accurate.

    I have friends and relatives in the game and they're all overpaid imo. Our market is partially to blame with many 800 to mil + homes being sold.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    You were a GC right? Imagine that industry standard is cost plus 6. Then the "competitive" guys are bidding plus 5. So the "hungry" guys start bidding plus 4. So the "new" guys start bidding plus 3...

    Everyone is try to protect themselves from a race to the bottom.
    I could certainly see how that'd be true overall, but in my area they were just greedy. They're happy with their one giant sale a year so they can goof off the rest of the year. Seriously. When I was home shopping, I was looking in the sub-half million category. Found a "reasonably" priced home I liked so we put in offer. Couldn't get a freaking response for like a week from seller's agent. In fact, they allowed 2 offers of ours to expire without even a word.

    Our agent told us point blank "Yeah, since this is a 'lower' value property (at 400K), the seller's agent is a friend of theirs and they even only took this listing as a favor to them so the agent's honestly really not too motivated." Some 'friend'! Seller was trying to short-sell too, so they obviously needed to get out asap. How nice of their realtor 'friend' to not even pass on offers to them. Chick's now one of the most prominent agents in town and I got to know her since. Totally worthless as an agent AND a person. W... T... F....? But I learned that's kind of par for the course there. Plenty of other high dollar RE markets can be the exact same way, so it's nothing particularly unique to my old area.

    Some of those markets practically deserve to be taken down a peg or two by more competitive commissions.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Yeah but a GC actually has to invest in tools, trucks, can get hurt for life etc. Not to mention will build you an entire fucking house.

    The realtor has to show up for an hour and unlock a door, then process some paper. The level of effort involved just isn't remotely comparable.
    For real. NO comparison. While I was working 80+ hour ball busting weeks and going broke, my agents were fucking off skiing or taking lavish international vacations. Must be nice!

  11. #61
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    @AR and jackstraw,

    Whether or not RE agents add value is a separate debate. As is the viability of the current business model.

    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    The problem I have with realtors is they have no "cost" in the game. The owner owns the house. They have time and money wrapped up in advertising/showing, but to say cost + is not accurate.
    Unless it's their own property, general contractors have no cost in the game either.

    They have a cost of entry and operation just like any small businesses, but the skin in the game is the owner's.
    Last edited by Ted Striker; 08-26-2019 at 12:00 PM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    @AR and jackstraw,

    Whether or not RE agents add value is a separate debate. As is the viability of the current business model.
    Seems pretty tied to the non-negotiable 6% rate if you ask me....

  13. #63
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    @ Austin, I hear ya. Up until very recently, as my side hustle I was a partner in a development company. It was our money at risk, and often our labor on the job site. My experience with many agents was that they were sloppy and extraneous - or worse, completely full of shit. But the few good ones we worked with helped us make a lot of money. So it's definitely a YMMV situation.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by char_ View Post
    Seems pretty tied to the non-negotiable 6% rate if you ask me....
    It's changing here in western WA. 2.5/2.5% is common here, and it looks they're revamping the listing/selling arrangement as well.

    Plus Redfin.

    My personal opinion is that it should be entirety fee for service.

  15. #65
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    it sounds like RE agents should not exist and have no reason to live but somehow they do, so what does that indicate ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeLuke View Post
    ^^think this is pretty on the money.

    To the anti agent commenters- if the buyer presents offer with an agent, what do you do then? Just ride bare while they have a pro?
    Yea, unless basic paperwork and negotiation is something a seller is incapable of doing. What value is the pro going to add in this case? Or he could go hire an actual real estate attorney, who would negotiate and process the sale for much less. That is what I did when selling in Massachusetts and Im 100% convinced I not only saved $20k in commissions but I got a higher selling price than if I went with an agent. I kept the house on the market longer than the rent seeking agents wanted to, and got the top three bidders to all offer higher than their last and final offer. My unit sold for 10% more than the identical unit below me sold for 3 months prior and they paid 6%.

    Here in California, where the agents and Realtors have basically made it impossible to buy or sell a home without an agent, we used an agent to purchase our current house and it was the biggest waste of money. We ended up finding our house via Redfin, went to the open house by ourselves, went back with our agent and they drafted an offer. I had to argue with my own agent to get them to place an offer below asking price, then further argue with them when negotiating the final deal. In the end I was right and we saved $12k over following their advice. The only value they added was getting us a free roof inspection.

    Also, the amount you pay their broker is negotiable in this case. Id tell them youd pay a 2% broker fee but no more and act accordingly. If he needs to pay 3% Id tell him fine but you need another 1% on the sale.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    If he needs to pay 3% Id tell him fine but you need another 1% on the sale.
    How many tuggers is 1%
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Wait, so you can get paid commission on something you didnt sell?

    Huh.

    What a fucking racket.
    Right?
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  19. #69
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    Hows that offer comin in Ice?

    Do they know what kind of VIPs have been in your kitchen?!?

  20. #70
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    Needing an RE agent and if you can get a cheaper commission might depend on the type of market you are In ... a slow market a hit market a buyer or seller market, lots of listings or no listings ?

    for a lotta people a house is the biggest most nerve wracking thing they are likely to do

    which might be why RE agents still exist
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #71
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    Real Estate Question

    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Yea, unless basic paperwork and negotiation is something a seller is incapable of doing. What value is the pro going to add in this case? Or he could go hire an actual real estate attorney, who would negotiate and process the sale for much less. That is what I did when selling in Massachusetts and Im 100% convinced I not only saved $20k in commissions but I got a higher selling price than if I went with an agent. I kept the house on the market longer than the rent seeking agents wanted to, and got the top three bidders to all offer higher than their last and final offer. My unit sold for 10% more than the identical unit below me sold for 3 months prior and they paid 6%.

    Here in California, where the agents and Realtors have basically made it impossible to buy or sell a home without an agent, we used an agent to purchase our current house and it was the biggest waste of money. We ended up finding our house via Redfin, went to the open house by ourselves, went back with our agent and they drafted an offer. I had to argue with my own agent to get them to place an offer below asking price, then further argue with them when negotiating the final deal. In the end I was right and we saved $12k over following their advice. The only value they added was getting us a free roof inspection.

    Also, the amount you pay their broker is negotiable in this case. Id tell them youd pay a 2% broker fee but no more and act accordingly. If he needs to pay 3% Id tell him fine but you need another 1% on the sale.
    Im not going to defend an industry of workers some of which are very lazy or as described above. But since were sharing experiences, this is unfolding right now.

    I get a call from a family friend /acquaintance who wanted me to come over and discuss their property, they think its time to sell the desirable land. [Almost 4 acres of buildable slightly sloped land in east Bellevue. One of the largest private parcels left in that section]. He wanted a value check because he was continuing to get letters of interest.

    Well, turns out when I get there that the neighbor (an agent) wrote an offer for a client and he was motivated to sign it. After all the price is 5 times what he paid 16 yrs ago. The offer was near tax assessed - which jumped by 565k this yr alone. I directed him to pause.

    After some work of showing the place to developers and days of negotiations we are near mutual at $240k more with a buyer I brought from my network. Plus more favorable closing terms for seller. Take -60k for my discounted commission and hes 180k net higher. Wonder if hes happy to have called an agent?

  22. #72
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    I don't have any problems paying agents, yeah 6% is a little rich but it's not like it's written in stone. I've negotiated with them before, this time I didn't for various reasons.

    No word about the offer but I'll post when I hear something. The guy said something about being out of town on the phone to my wife, plus he wanted to go by the house again (he wanted to get in but nobody's there), so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few days.

  23. #73
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    Every state is different. In California buyers often come with an agent, but the buyer usually has no contract with the agent and the agent expects to split the commission with the sellers agent. Because it is the seller that is paying both agents, both agents have a fiduciary interest towards the seller--obtaining the best price possible for the seller among other things. If the seller has no agent they are under no obligation to pay the agent that comes with the buyer, but of course the buyer's agent knows this and will not steer the buyer to a FSBO. If the buyer settles on a FSBO house both buyer and seller are on their own, unless one or the other or both decide to pay someone to help with the deal.

    Buyers can contract with an agent who will represent their interest in which case the buyer pays the agent--how the fee is determined I don't know; I've never done it myself.

    Like I said before--the contract and the law govern. As a seller you do not owe money to someone you don't have a contract with, but you also cannot expect that person to perform any service for you.

    There's nothing magic about a 50-50 split between seller's and "buyer's" agent. My son bought a townhouse in a new little development. The developer had an agent. My son used a frat brother of his--fairly new to the business--as his agent. His agent steered him to the development where he bought. My son was out of town still in school so he would never have found the place on his own and my son's friend did the bulk of the post-offer work. Nonetheless, the sales contract specified that the seller's agent got the great majority of the commission; I think my son's friend got 1% or less. He's no longer in the business.

  24. #74
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    Yeah I get it, for me this was always more about what should I do rather than what do I legally have to do.

    Wife's perfectly fine with not paying the agent anything. I'm gonna read the contract when I can (and before I do anything else) and see what's what.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Yeah I get it, for me this was always more about what should I do rather than what do I legally have to do.
    Because you're a good person.

    My sister was looking at a beach shack and had a realtor helping. They had a life changing event (grandparents to be) far away from beach and opted to no longer buy. They sent the realtor a check for 1k. It was almost too nice, but karma right.

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