shell and pants that hold up?

[blackalps]

lol. always the internet experts. No, you're right. I'm making shit up so I can post about it on the internet. TNF Purist Shell bought from backcountry.com: large pocket zipper stuck permanently after one month, about 10 days skiing. TNF Purist pants: belt loop unstitched, causing waistband to start unstitching, in about a month and a half. Sent both back to backcountry.com.

Next (last) season: Arc'teryx Sabre pant and shell. Pants: the vent zip busted after about a month, then the crotch same unstitched at about 2 months or so. It's possible the pants were slightly on the tight side, but the next size up was absolutely huge and made me look like a wannabe 90s skater/white rapper, were so long I walked on them when not in my skis, had to pull the cuffs up to get them out of the way so I could step into the bindings.

Jacket made it through most of the season, then on one of my last days, the zipper busted. Some teeth fell out. I didn't wreck. Just unzipped the jacket, went to zip it back up, and the teeth were gone. Sent it in for zipper replacement and they found delamination in the Goretex, as well as the zipper unstitching near the hood opening, and offered replacement. So I have a brand new Sabre AR still in the plastic. Didn't know they changed the zippers to the ugly ass gold color for this year, but whatever. I have a new jacket.


I bought the arcteryx stuff from ExpertVoice with an EP. so maybe they sell blemish stuff on the EP program. The TNF stuff I got on season end clearance. dunno. All I know is that all I did was ski in it and it fell apart.

[3PinGrin]

Why not trade one of your existing jackets in for a Freeride?
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ROGRAM-up2-200

Haven't tried one of the Freeride Systems jackets, but they get great reviews on these forums. I have also always been pretty happy with Mammut stuff that I get on sale.

[XavierD]

Some people just break and wear out shit faster than others. Yes, there are bad products out there that see higher numbers of issues well above the mean (Kingpins...). Your products don’t fit that description. You however, appear to be wearing items out much faster than the mean. Draw your own conclusions, it’s not an insult, but if you’re constantly wearing out all your outerwear rapidly faster than everyone else who uses like products, we would consider you to be the key variable.

[glademaster]

I just want to find a pair of pants out of the material Freeride Systems used for the Antero 2. How fucking hard can that be? Apparently, very.

[Micol]

I just want to find a pair of pants out of the material Freeride Systems used for the Antero 2. How fucking hard can that be? Apparently, very.

hahaha, i hate to say this, and shouldnt but ive been rocking a pair i made back when i breeched the pant design discussions around here....made em out of the hybrid softshell, inside and outside vents, aquaguard zippers, membraned, fully seam taped, 4 pockets (no cargo no no), used superfabric for the cuff guards, and i have worn them about 4 seasons now....best pants i have ever ever had , mostly just wear them with boxers....

but, now the dwr is gone in many places , i have tried every retreatment known and some from dwr manufacturers and nothing i mean nothing brings it back, even tried scotchguard for the hell of it, that didnt work either.

i would make these for the masses but you guys would tear em up and make me warranty them....they use more fabric, more labor, more seam tape and everything...but if you go to sourcing at SIA or wherever, you can buy complete sewn pants (not like these exactly) but $25 (pre trump tariff pricing) and generic fabrics and zippers...but still , add the extra cost for the right materials ......

did i mention you gotta buy 1000 pairs from china? i should have....

it would probably cost about $150 to make em there with polartec neoshell softshell, ykk aquaguard, etc....then customs, tariffs, freight...
oh =, yeah....need 1000 buyers

then you've got
one gender
the color issues with mags
those wanting the full side zips
and it just makes it an undoable unprofitable endeavor.....

i could make em here in my place, but would have most of the same problems above and
labor would be higher....

[iriponsnow]

I just want to find a pair of pants out of the material Freeride Systems used for the Antero 2. How fucking hard can that be? Apparently, very.

Hahaha I inquired this of MiCol a while back & he was a stand up mag & ran me thru all the numbers to make it happen & - it was nuts & totally unrealistic. Props for considering CFS.

[blackalps]

Why not trade one of your existing jackets in for a Freeride?
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ROGRAM-up2-200

Haven't tried one of the Freeride Systems jackets, but they get great reviews on these forums. I have also always been pretty happy with Mammut stuff that I get on sale.

Never heard of it. Looks cool. I'd like to support local. But Arc'teryx just barely sent me a new Sabre AR, so I think I'm good. Might try to find a TNF Brigandine on sale and alternate between them so they last a little longer.

OTOH, I have a normie M-F job this year and will probably get less than a third of the days in that I got last year. womp womp.

[SlyFoxxx]

I had the crotch seams rip out of my Arc'teryx Cassiar pants this spring. Left me riding around A Basin with a nice breeze for a few hours. I guess I have to dial back my vintage spread eagles..

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[Micol]

I had the crotch seams rip out of my Arc'teryx Cassiar pants this spring. Left me riding around A Basin with a nice breeze for a few hours. I guess I have to dial back my vintage spread eagles..

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just curious
bout how old were they?
what were you really doing that caused it?
one event, or slowly over time?
gusseted or 4 way intersection crotch construction?
hardshell, soft, hybrid?

[Timberridge]

The toughest pair of pants and shell I ever owned was a Westcomb eVent Vapor. But honestly just got tired of the colors after ~7 years. Gave them to another mag here. I'd bet they're still going somewhere.

Not sure what Westcomb is putting out today, but they made some good stuff.

[glademaster]

Rubs it in

I know I've posted a very similar comment before, and you've mentioned your one-off pair in the past. I know pants are off the table for FRS, but I wish someone made pants/low cut bibs out of the same or a similar material to the Antero 2. I feel like there were products like that on the market a few years ago, but I'll be damned if I can find anything now.

[SlyFoxxx]

just curious
bout how old were they?
what were you really doing that caused it?
one event, or slowly over time?
gusseted or 4 way intersection crotch construction?
hardshell, soft, hybrid?

I only had about 30 days on them. I bought them off Ebay for $250, but they were basically brand new. Pretty sure they're 4 way, but I'm not too knowledgeable about clothing design. I started to notice the stitching pulling apart where the inseams meet the vertical seam below the zipper after about 20 days. They ripped when I had to come to a quick stop in the trees/bumps to avoid a dude who was having a yard sale. My lower ski slid out on the backside of a pow covered bump with my other ski on top of it and I did a full split.. They are the stretch GoreTex material and fit loose, so I was pretty surprised. I also noticed some bubbling on the GoreTex in multiple places, so that's not real cool.

I sent them to Rainy Pass Repair a few days ago. They're restitching about 3" on each of the 3 seams, plus patching a 2" tear in the actual GoreTex. Charged me $70 + return shipping.

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[::: :::]

it sounds like they didn't fit well

that's not a knock on you - it's a knock on the industry need to hit some prototypical sizes, which may or may not actually serve the skiers that wear them

much like boots, it seems we all need to find the manufacturers who make the cuts & sizing that conforms closest to our bodies if we expect to get good service out of them (assuming high quality manufacturing & matls [which isn't necessarily uniformly true])

[Micol]

^^^^all last 4 posts with good info for sure....
westcomb is made in the old arc factory in vancouver except this brand owned by the family that owned the factory i believe...quality up there
i got swatch samples of the event but i think at the time is was $25k for 1000 yards of one color, i didnt have the $25,000 or the means to sell 1000y of pants...things have changed today....but neoshell makes the most sense and the performance is outstanding....

i thiink with the membranded lmainated softshells with fleece interior you get about everything you need, stretch/flex, one layer most of the year, breathability, waterproof, and durable....i think most brands selling $150 pants would rather use $4 yd 2Layer membrane fabric with a $0.25 y interior lining, want more warmth, they add some $0.50 yard synthetic insulation....$250-300 pants usually get you a branded fabric, but most often rigid shell. Rigid shell ok for jacket, bad for pants, need the stretch to prevent the blowouts....with stretch, you dont have to have just the right fit and they can accommodate the variations in your weight and size thru out the ski season...

ouch 30 days, $250 then $70 + shipping hurts...but this is the problem with pants...(mostly shell or non elastine blends imo) ...not going to give, just rip

best owned pants i've had from other brands and me (none still produced)

cloudveil ( dont know model) but was softshell i think schoeller fabric, not seam taped, not sure if wpb fabri the green ones
OR (dont know model) but was gore windstopper, taped
freeride systems limited edition

[doebedoe]

My favorite pants thus far are a membraned soft shell -- Flylow Magnums. Soft, feel nice to tour in, lots of venting. Small hole in the crouch after 100 odd days of touring. Need to read xxx-ers aqualseal tutorial again and patch them up.

[Micol]

^ in the seam from thread breaking or in the fabric?

[doebedoe]

^ in the seam from thread breaking or in the fabric?

Fabric in the crotch area. On the edge of where the back seam tape is, two small holes have worn through the outer fabric.

[skizix]

^^^^all last 4 posts with good info for sure....
westcomb is made in the old arc factory in vancouver except this brand owned by the family that owned the factory i believe...quality up there...

Better be. Seems besides inheriting the Arc factory, they inherited Arc's pricing scheme - sure, made-in-Canada costs more, but it's almost twice FRS pricing. Looks like nice stuff though.

In other news: wtf is up with Cloudveil? I used to really like their stuff, then they went bankrupt (like, what, almost 10 years ago?). Then they were going to restart everything (~5 years ago?). Now they have a website, with their OG logo, but no actual goods for sale (or even mentioned). Hopefully they don't go the Sierra Designs route - SD used to have awesome gear (esp. tents); now their shit is pretty much Walmart fodder (which sucks, as I happen to have lifetime pro-form for SD).

[SB]

[reckless toboggan]

ARCADE.

They'll make sure your shell pants hold up.

[Meadow Skipper]

In other news: wtf is up with Cloudveil? I used to really like their stuff, then they went bankrupt (like, what, almost 10 years ago?). Then they were going to restart everything (~5 years ago?). Now they have a website, with their OG logo, but no actual goods for sale (or even mentioned). Hopefully they don't go the Sierra Designs route - SD used to have awesome gear (esp. tents); now their shit is pretty much Walmart fodder (which sucks, as I happen to have lifetime pro-form for SD).

The og Cloudveil owner sold out, the buyers cratered it, and the og guy started Stio. Pretty good stuff, check it out.

[SlyFoxxx]

^^^^all last 4 posts with good info for sure....
westcomb is made in the old arc factory in vancouver except this brand owned by the family that owned the factory i believe...quality up there
i got swatch samples of the event but i think at the time is was $25k for 1000 yards of one color, i didnt have the $25,000 or the means to sell 1000y of pants...things have changed today....but neoshell makes the most sense and the performance is outstanding....

i thiink with the membranded lmainated softshells with fleece interior you get about everything you need, stretch/flex, one layer most of the year, breathability, waterproof, and durable....i think most brands selling $150 pants would rather use $4 yd 2Layer membrane fabric with a $0.25 y interior lining, want more warmth, they add some $0.50 yard synthetic insulation....$250-300 pants usually get you a branded fabric, but most often rigid shell. Rigid shell ok for jacket, bad for pants, need the stretch to prevent the blowouts....with stretch, you dont have to have just the right fit and they can accommodate the variations in your weight and size thru out the ski season...

ouch 30 days, $250 then $70 + shipping hurts...but this is the problem with pants...(mostly shell or non elastine blends imo) ...not going to give, just rip

best owned pants i've had from other brands and me (none still produced)

cloudveil ( dont know model) but was softshell i think schoeller fabric, not seam taped, not sure if wpb fabri the green ones
OR (dont know model) but was gore windstopper, taped
freeride systems limited edition

Cassiar pant has an MSRP of $550, so I'm still ahead. Ha. I would never pay that though. I got the Cassiar jacket from Backcountry for 30% off and I think that's about what Arc gear made in China is worth. I'm done buying their gear now though. I have a Cerium vest that's leaking feathers everywhere after a few months.. You can just tell it's not the same anymore.

I have a pair of TNF Spectre hybrid pants and they seem a lot tougher, same with the Flylow Snowman pants I just got from Campsaver for $100.





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[XXX-er]

For me the Arcterxy in both soft shell & hard shell have worked really well

[SlyFoxxx]

For me the Arcterxy in both soft shell & hard shell have worked really well

I have the Gamma MX hoody and Atom LT hoody. My favorite 2 jackets.. Gamma MX is made in Vietnam and Atom LT is made in Bangladesh. Maybe it's just the gear made in China. That's where the Cassiar and Cerium are made. Or maybe I was just unlucky.

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[Micol]

Better be. Seems besides inheriting the Arc factory, they inherited Arc's pricing scheme - sure, made-in-Canada costs more, but it's almost twice FRS pricing. Looks like nice stuff though.

In other news: wtf is up with Cloudveil? I used to really like their stuff, then they went bankrupt (like, what, almost 10 years ago?). Then they were going to restart everything (~5 years ago?). Now they have a website, with their OG logo, but no actual goods for sale (or even mentioned). Hopefully they don't go the Sierra Designs route - SD used to have awesome gear (esp. tents); now their shit is pretty much Walmart fodder (which sucks, as I happen to have lifetime pro-form for SD).

i think trying to prop up a pretty big sewing concern with launching a new brand is probably pretty tough

The og Cloudveil owner sold out, the buyers cratered it, and the og guy started Stio. Pretty good stuff, check it out.

i actually tried to license cloudveil and spoke to the 'owner' some dude up in nh, or mass, or ny , jersey cant remember back in 2016...he was pretty high on himself, was some kind of agent/broker for china factories.... last i saw he was being sued by multiple china factories over some rossignol gear he brokered between factory and rossi that he didnt pay for cause he said it was bad....i may have the rossi brand wrong but something like that....big lawsuits....and from what i read of the case, the gear was ok, just fighting to delay payment using flawed as the reason....

he had licensed cloudveil to someone in colorado and they basically just made up a bunch of d level crap and stuck the cloudveil brand on it and hired some pr firm to make all their social media posts ....your typical crap, but with cloudveil branding....they really screwed up the heritage of the brand for sure...i just dont think there is much in the way of coming back from all those missteps....you would be better off buying burton clothing, or 4 square, or similar or something if cloudveil comes out of the grave again, i mean it will never be the same in terms of thoughful, useful, forward thinking mountain gear, cause its not ever being run out of mountains...its like in jersey or somewhere....(nuthin ginst jersey, but thats not the place to be perfecting mtn products)

ive been in the stio store and looked at their stuff...i know they tried to launch some in house stores in various cities ,seems like san francisco or chicago, cant remember exactly...so not sure that what their demographic and design philosophy are exactly...i think if i was hardcore mtn brand i would be trying to open mtn stores, if i was trying to sell a mass consumer product, i would open in chicago, seattle, san fran, LA, NYC etc...nothing against their m.o. i know the tie in with the tgr ownership here and that they place ads on these forums and abouts...but their distribution model has had various incarnations...i think they are adding independent retail doors now....same model as many others...what the difference between stio, trew, flylow, strafe, and so on? i dont know....when you figure it out post it up...from what i saw their quality is same as all those brands it seems, i mean they all get built out of the same china and vietnam factories, what makes one different from the other besides fabrics and the logo?