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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    And the linked articles talk about loud noises etc. during the night. There appears to be coraborating evidence to the sabotage theory.

    As previously mentioned by xxx-er, there is s long history of monkey wrenching in B.C. Anyone remember the whole Doukhobor saga in the West Koots.


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    the doukhobor thing went on for many years but the squamish 5 were a mid 80's thing with ties to the vancover punk scene

    I was at a bush party where Roots Roundup played the gig and Gerry Hanna got up and did 'slave to my dick' I guess we went to Burnaby North the same HS which spawned punkers in the earliest Vancouver punk scene, I knew joey shithead/Dimwitt/Wimpy cuz they were just regular geeks before punk happened but I don't remember Gerry, it sounds like he did some time for being an activist
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    And the linked articles talk about loud noises etc. during the night. There appears to be coraborating evidence to the sabotage theory.

    As previously mentioned by xxx-er, there is s long history of monkey wrenching in B.C. Anyone remember the whole Doukhobor saga in the West Koots.


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    The sound of each strand breaking ... it reverberates down the cable and it sounds just like a rock falling in the mountains. That probably happens over 5 or 6 minutes, and intensifies as the remaining cables take up more of the weight of the system. Finally, a big snap and the whole thing breaks.

    It probably sounds like when a train is approaching on a train track and one can hear the creaks echo along the track. With gondola cars on the cable, the cars probably amplify the sound,acting as loud speakers. It seems possible, the sounds being heard that sounded like rockfall were actually the cable breaking.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Bullshit. IBC factor of safety design on cables is 8. That cable is 8x as strong as the engineer calc’d it for. It’s not snapping because it’s cold out in September.


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    That's what's so crazy about these types of events. There are lots of cable breaks in tramways, historically speaking.

    https://alp-age.com/en/articles/51/326/

    I'm sure that's not a full list because you will never know about what happens in some countries and a lot of stuff probably gets swept under the rug.

    It does happen.

    "26 Jul 1956: Rowe Mountain, New Hampshire, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 7 injured [ski resort]
    A In what was probably the first fatal chairlift accident one man dies and seven people were injured when the steel cable on a chair-lift up Rowe Mountain snapped while carrying 30 people."

    Stuff like that. Honestly, I'm armchair guessing everything. But the media and police and operator pointing to sabotage when they haven't even got a professional to look at the cable ... it seems premature.

  4. #54
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    One final theory ... in line with what happened in this report:

    https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/wh...nt?oid=2600606

    Following the incident, the SSGLP ... installing an additional wind meter where the incident occurred, setting wind speed warning and alarm values specific to local conditions that will automatically slow the gondola in dangerous conditions and installing a camera to monitor cabin movement. ... "We did learn that... in a particular north outflow wind, we definitely have monitoring that we need to do, and we've implemented a whole series of wind monitoring."
    https://www.squamishchief.com/news/l...fall-1.1587105

    The BC Safety Authority (BCSA) investigation report into the 14.7-metre fall of the empty cabin on Feb. 4 cited northerly outflow winds that exceeded 75.6 kilometres per hour and operators’ inexperience.

    The report, released Friday, Nov. 14, also cited other environmental factors, such as the carrier being empty and therefore more susceptible to the winds.
    “This resulted in unacceptable carrier swing that exceeded the swing clearance required by the design standard,” said the report, titled “Sea to Sky Gondola Incident.”
    https://www.squamishchief.com/news/l...fall-1.1587105

    The report also notes that the gondola is not permitted to operate during winds greater than 40 km-h or during forecasted arctic outflow winds.
    LET THAT SINK IN
    "the gondola is not permitted to operate during winds greater than *40 km-h or during forecasted arctic outflow winds."
    THAT'S ALMOST EVERY NIGHT THEY HAVE AN OUTFLOW, PROBABLY AROUND THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT.
    This isn't a typical ski lift.
    It isn't allowed to operate in winds, especially the kind that happen at night.
    I think that the BCSA incident investigation report said that at 17 or 18 degrees of sway, a car passing over the sheaves would be de-roped.
    *Maybe they meant 40 MPH not KPH.

    If anyone can find the full engineering report, some 80 pages with diagrams and details about the whole system, I can't seem to find it anymore. It was a PDF by the engineers investigation of the deropement on that line a few years ago just before they opened to the public. It used to be here but is now 404- Page Not Found: https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/sit...port_final.pdf

    Although, there is a good summary of the report here https://liftblog.com/2015/04/19/lift...o-sky-gondola/ with this snippet to stimulate your imagination:

    The anemometer on tower 8 had been producing false readings so Doppelmayr directed the operators to set the wind warning and alarm to their maximum value until the problem could be fixed. Even so, the system was only running 2.5 m/s at the time of the accident so the wind warning would not have slowed the system further.
    and for safety ...

    The lower section climbs an 800 foot cliff and none of the lift line is accessible by road. Many of the 14 towers were anchored directly to bedrock. Most trees under the line were left standing which would make for a challenging evacuation.
    According to the annual reports at BCSA, I found this, page 85 at https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/sit...sos_2014_0.pdf:

    Wind speeds that occurred on the day of the incident exceeded 70 km/h, and at the time of the incident, a wind gust
    was recorded at the tower 8 wind meter at 75.6 km/h. The passenger cabin involved was empty and therefore its
    geometry was more susceptible to the influence of wind loading.
    Although other gondola passenger ropeway installations have been known to run safely under restricted operational
    procedures at the wind speeds experienced that day, it is only from operational experience where these procedures can
    be established. Since this is the first installation of its kind in this specific geographic location with no other passenger
    ropeways operating in the vicinity, increased caution is required under these weather conditions to gain knowledge on
    how to operate safely.
    The person responsible for conducting the line check from inside a cabin lacked experience in the operation of passenger ropeways. This person was trained to be a passenger ropeway operator, but he lacked the knowledge to properly
    convey what he was observing on the line. All areas of the passenger ropeway alignment exposed to wind were not
    being monitored during an infrequent wind event that already prompted the operator to operate at reduced speeds. In
    this instance, posting persons to monitor the ropeway in locations that could not be seen from drive or return station
    vantage points would have provided better data to make informed decisions about operations that day and in the future. Access to these tower locations is difficult, but monitoring these areas when there are unknowns is
    And again, the same incident, mentioned on page 111:

    The carrier swing exceeded the swing clearance required by the design standard and caused the carrier detachable rope
    grip torsion tube to contact a rope catching device on the tower equipment and forcibly removed the grip from the haul rope.
    The investigation into the failure of the gondola cabin’s detachable rope grip to maintain its holding force on the haul
    rope found that the incident occurred due to operational error. The owner (a passenger ropeways contractor) lacked
    experience operating passenger ropeways at this particular location and there were no existing passenger ropeways in
    the same area to give the operators a sense of how passenger carriers may have been reacting.
    The following causal factors have also been identified:
    - Strong wind speed on the day of the incident.
    - The gondola cabin involved in the incident was empty and therefore its geometry was more susceptible to the
    influence of wind, and
    - Limited experience of the passenger ropeway operators.
    So ... let's say they parked the system with one car, the one at the last section before the steep drop, parked stopped on the sheaves. In the night, a outflow (back to Howe Sound) causes the car to jimmy the cable off the tower.

    The car and cable falls off the tower, now the entire lower section falls too, causing the rope to actually break as well.

    Possible?

    Prior to the first cabin fall, there was also a crane that fell during construction of the gondola top station. So today's news is the third major issue to happen there. That might only be relevant in that it might also have to do with unpredictable winds in that location.
    Last edited by puregravity; 08-11-2019 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #55
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    There was a mention of opposition to this being installed. Is there any history of cables snapping? We have seen chairs come off cables, cables coming off wheels, bull wheels failing, Yan-Lift Engineering detachable mechanism loosing grip and sliding down the cable, I can't recall a cable failure. There are plenty of old Riblet lifts, all over North America, some of which I have ridden and wonder about their safety. If these don't fail its hard to imagine a lift failing while not in operation.

  6. #56
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  7. #57
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    There's a rumor Jeffrey Epstein was in one of the gondola cars..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by river59 View Post
    Thermite?
    That would be my guess. Definitely not wind or temperature fluctuations.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post


    Honestly, I'm armchair guessing everything.
    JFC, ya think?

    And wire ropes are a mofo to sever. Grinder, sawzall...puhleeze. Those strands are so fucking hard you'd need a beer after every strand. And loud as fuckall with sparks like on the 4th. If you could get enough cut to where it would break, the resulting pop and spring from the tension would be enough to send ya methinks.

    I'm going with acidic Alien drool.

  10. #60
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    Jaws of life would cut it no problem

  11. #61
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    Time of wind warning is 4 AM today, at the same time of the accident on the previous day, there is a Wind Warning for Howe Sound. That's the wind in the marina at sea level, 33 knots is 62 km/hr. Now consider that the wind aloft up/down the 800 foot rise cliff section of the S2S Gondola is going to be considerably stronger - not just because it is aloft (40% higher speed normal), but also because Howe Sound mountains form a natural funnel.

    When the previous de-ropement occurred, the wind speed meter on tower 8 made a reading of 78 km/hr lateral. It doesn't measure wind up/down the cliff face, only lateral (from photos). Not only, but it was said to produce false readings that day,hence the reason they ignored it's readings. But still, the gondola de-roped and it was only moving at 9 km/h in an 'unknown' wind during the previous incident.

    If the sea-level reading was 62 km/h then I would assume something much windier aloft a night ago.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1LNAxOC.png 
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ID:	290911

    Also, according to the history on the Squamish WindAlerts website, on August 10th at 4AM (time of the incident), there was a wind spike at the Squamish Terminals marina:

    Name:  o6xQzht.png
Views: 978
Size:  82.3 KB

    So ... at marina there was 40 km/h gusts at exactly 4AM. It was probably twice that speed at the tower 8 anemometer.

    I'm still going with the "wind-related deropement causing catastrophic chain of events" or something like that.
    Last edited by puregravity; 08-11-2019 at 09:02 AM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    Jaws of life would cut it no problem
    It's not cutting it, it's what happens when you cut it.

  13. #63
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    puregravity did it.


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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained View Post
    JFC, ya think?
    I'm going with acidic Alien drool.
    AKA: Oxy/Acetaline torch.
    Would make quick work of most of it and then let the wind gusts take care of the rest.

    If it was deliberate, there will be clear evidence methinks.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Time of wind warning is 4 AM today, at the same time of the accident on the previous day, there is a Wind Warning for Howe Sound. That's the wind in the marina at sea level, 33 knots is 62 km/hr. Now consider that the wind aloft up/down the 800 foot rise cliff section of the S2S Gondola is going to be considerably stronger - not just because it is aloft (40% higher speed normal), but also because Howe Sound mountains form a natural funnel.

    When the previous de-ropement occurred, the wind speed meter on tower 8 made a reading of 78 km/hr lateral. It doesn't measure wind up/down the cliff face, only lateral (from photos). Not only, but it was said to produce false readings that day,hence the reason they ignored it's readings. But still, the gondola de-roped and it was only moving at 9 km/h in an 'unknown' wind during the previous incident.

    If the sea-level reading was 62 km/h then I would assume something much windier aloft a night ago.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1LNAxOC.png 
Views:	147 
Size:	48.6 KB 
ID:	290911

    Also, according to the history on the Squamish WindAlerts website, on August 10th at 4AM (time of the incident), there was a wind spike at the Squamish Terminals marina:

    Name:  o6xQzht.png
Views: 978
Size:  82.3 KB

    So ... at marina there was 40 km/h gusts at exactly 4AM. It was probably twice that speed at the tower 8 anemometer.

    I'm still going with the "wind-related deropement causing catastrophic chain of events" or something like that.
    It wouldn’t be hard for someone to read a wind forecast that says gusts at 4am, then go up there at 2am and cut the cable partially, get to a safe place, watch the wind pickup and take it down.


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  16. #66
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    Ok. Where is a photo of the broken end?

  17. #67
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    The Clintons did it.
    watch out for snakes

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    I'm guessing this is why you now have to show ID when buying canned air at Wally World
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  19. #69
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    Gondola cable snaps

    I was not aware that there had been safety issues and incidents (falling gondola, crane incident) prior to the cable sabotage / failure. This lends weight to puregravity’s theories in my mind.

    But surely the presumption of sabotage is based on some type of graspable evidence. Would be RCMP really throw out the notion of sabotage without some serious proof in that direction?


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  20. #70
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    Sort of hard to believe there'd be a wind event more severe in the middle of the summer than during the winter that would cause something catastrophic like this. And the cable de-roping is a whole lot different than the entire cable snapping, especially with just the load from the empty cabins.

  21. #71
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    Gondola cable snaps

    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Sort of hard to believe there'd be a wind event more severe in the middle of the summer than during the winter that would cause something catastrophic like this. And the cable de-roping is a whole lot different than the entire cable snapping, especially with just the load from the empty cabins.
    This ^^^. I guess it’s it’s possible it was a defective cable, bad splice etc. And puregravity’s theory about a ´natural ´ failure is, in my estimation, is not at all implausible, but i’m leaning towards the sabotage notion.


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    Last edited by Angle Parking; 08-11-2019 at 07:00 PM.

  22. #72
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    Gondola cable snaps

    Curious, Crystal Mtn. has a gondola (don't know if it's the same mfg or not). AFAIK the cabins get de roped and parked (at the base) at night and during heavy weather, from what I am seeing in pictures and gather from dialog, the cabins on the Squamish gondola stay attached? If this is the case, and wind and weather is a known constant for that zone, why?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    I was not aware that there had been safety issues and incidents (falling gondola, crane incident) prior to the cable sabotage / failure. This lends weight to puregravity’s theories in my mind.

    But surely the presumption of sabotage is based on some type of graspable evidence. Would be RCMP really throw out the notion of sabotage without some serious proof in that direction?


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    They would. After all, what else could have cause a catastrophe at 4 AM I.N T.H.E. N.I.G.H.T ??
    It MUST have been sabotage since the OPERATOR says there was a 'big thick beautiful healthy rope'!

    Hey Bob. Have seen the rope ends yet?
    - No Chief. Still trying on hiking boots and safety equipment to get to those dangerous locations.
    OK. Well, hurry up. We're dangling off our hunches right now.
    - We're trying. Steve says he needs a harness and climbing safety equipment to even get near those towers, and bear spray and tick repellent.
    Sure. But hurry the fuck up! We told everyone what the OPERATOR initially thought without any actual inspection.
    - Got it boss. What do we do when we get to the rope ends up top? Take a bunch of selfies??
    Fuck. Bob. Just hurry. Any minute now the media is going to start asking real questions.
    - We're onto it. Mary? Did you get some harnesses yet and some cute Arcteryx jackets?
    ...
    10 Days later. News conference.
    "Investigation continues. Operator bringing in special teams"

  24. #74
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    Some snippets of the first tower I snapped off someone's videos online:

    First tower at top of initial cliff face:

    https://i.imgur.com/yMnyPfQ.png

    Sheaves of first tower - return side of tower:

    https://i.imgur.com/Jgxnchg.png

    https://i.imgur.com/mPOg7PM.png

    Tower 6.
    https://imgur.com/wbATGue

    Tower 9:
    https://imgur.com/qgVTyhT

    Tower 8 (one the right, tower 9 ahead)
    https://i.imgur.com/u7SufIn.png

    Tower 11? (tower 10 skipped?)
    https://imgur.com/fX9RONO

    Tower 12 (after 11):
    https://imgur.com/4nqEWlb

    Taken from:

    Last edited by puregravity; 08-11-2019 at 03:35 PM.

  25. #75
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    It would still be highly unlikely that the rope just snapped in the wind, there’s actually a bit of strech in the rope.
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

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