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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    I'm done.

    Thermite?? Is that the going consensus?
    I think thats a good possibility (given the little we know now). It appears to be easy to make from untraceable materials. Getting it to reliably ignite might pose a problem, but that could be worked out in advance from practice away from the site.

  2. #102
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    Bill and Hillary

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyk View Post
    I think that’s a good possibility (given the little we know now). It appears to be easy to make from untraceable materials. Getting it to reliably ignite might pose a problem, but that could be worked out in advance from practice away from the site.
    Seems insanely impractical. It will want to naturally flow off the rounded cable, not through it. It would also make a burning mess on the forest floor. Why would they do that over a torch?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Seems insanely impractical. It will want to naturally flow off the rounded cable, not through it. It would also make a burning mess on the forest floor. Why would they do that over a torch?
    The obvious reason would be so you could ignite it and then get the hell out of the area before shit hits the fan.

  5. #105
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    I think it's important for people to understand how those ropes are spliced. It's not like they just weld two butt ends together. The individual strands are sort of braided together over a long distance in a way that it pretty much cannot come apart. The splice area is no weaker or stronger than any other part of the rope, correct?

  6. #106
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    Before the Gondy was put in 5 yrs ago the chief was a popular hike/scramble for many years that pretty much went straight up SO getting much in the way of large tools up there would be HARD, I dunno if there is an easy back way in to the top but its all pretty serious back country so it would probably be easiest to take the Gondy up and hide up there

    i am content to wait for more info but its great that we have the resident conspiracy theorists to entertain us here
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Seems insanely impractical. It will want to naturally flow off the rounded cable, not through it. It would also make a burning mess on the forest floor. Why would they do that over a torch?
    It would be pretty simple to but the thermite in a vessel that fits around the cable, or a vessel that sits ontop the cable so it burns down through it. This would also allow the perpetrator to "light the fuse" and get the hell away from the cable before it snaps. Sawing a big ass metal cable under that much tension would be a deathwish.

  8. #108
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    The gondola doesn't go up the Chief and yes, there's an ascent trail. You wouldn't need to take the gondola up and hide out.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I think it's important for people to understand how those ropes are spliced. It's not like they just weld two butt ends together. The individual strands are sort of braided together over a long distance in a way that it pretty much cannot come apart. The splice area is no weaker or stronger than any other part of the rope, correct?
    Yeah, It's not welded at all, just woven.

    They put a paint mark at the splice so it would be obvious if that's where the break is.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    It would be pretty simple to but the thermite in a vessel that fits around the cable, or a vessel that sits ontop the cable so it burns down through it. This would also allow the perpetrator to "light the fuse" and get the hell away from the cable before it snaps. Sawing a big ass metal cable under that much tension would be a deathwish.
    A vessel... that can be attached to the cable by hand at night after being carried up the ladder... will hold a enough thermite in contact... accepts a delay fuse with adequate ignition temp... and that container won't tip, melt, crack or leak... at 4000*F... what would you construct it out of and how would you manufacturer it while remaining untracable? Sounds sophisticated and expensive for an ecoterrorist. How far into that materials engineering venture would a saboteur get before going "sorry but I'm getting a cutting torch instead eh."
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    It would be pretty simple to but the thermite in a vessel that fits around the cable, or a vessel that sits ontop the cable so it burns down through it. This would also allow the perpetrator to "light the fuse" and get the hell away from the cable before it snaps. Sawing a big ass metal cable under that much tension would be a deathwish.
    They make thermite grenades, we set one on a engine block while in Combat Engineer School it pretty much melted a hole through it
    I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    A vessel... that can be attached to the cable by hand at night after being carried up the ladder... will hold a enough thermite in contact... accepts a delay fuse with adequate ignition temp... and that container won't tip, melt, crack or leak... at 4000*F... what would you construct it out of and how would you manufacturer it while remaining untracable? Sounds sophisticated and expensive for an ecoterrorist. How far into that materials engineering venture would a saboteur get before going "sorry but I'm getting a cutting torch instead eh."
    See above post.

    Honestly, it could probably be accomplished with some scrap steel and rudimentary welding. You dont need it leak proof, just need to direct the thermite (or energy source) and keep it on there for 20-30 seconds to eat through (or heat through) enough of the cable. I think you are envisioning some large contraption with an elegant design that could sever the cable on its own, when in reality all its needs to be is the size of a football or smaller and mcguyvered together. The HUGE tension in the cable is gonna do the heavy lifting... the thermite or heat source just needs to weaken the cable.

    As for a delayed fuse, that shit has been common knowledge for decades. Its literally in the Anarchist Cookbook which has been readily available to every punk kid since the 70s.

  13. #113
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    Yeah, think World Trade Center. You don't even need to cut through the cable if you heat it up enough.

  14. #114
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    Gondola cable snaps

    Ive noticed that the Mounties are a notoriously tight lipped bunch. In the case of our Thelma and Louise bros - they said almost nothing unless visiting Aussie or American law enforcement folks spilt the beans first. They are also Very careful with their words - no one shoots anyone in Canada. Bullets strike[period]. The apparent victim is found deceased[period]. - so if they are using the word vandalism - I have to suspect they have evidence of the same.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    See above post.

    Honestly, it could probably be accomplished with some scrap steel and rudimentary welding. You dont need it leak proof, just need to direct the thermite (or energy source) and keep it on there for 20-30 seconds to eat through (or heat through) enough of the cable. I think you are envisioning some large contraption with an elegant design that could sever the cable on its own, when in reality all its needs to be is the size of a football or smaller and mcguyvered together. The HUGE tension in the cable is gonna do the heavy lifting... the thermite or heat source just needs to weaken the cable.
    If the cable is engineered with a safety factor of 8x (for full load, in motion, in worst design wind conditions), and you aren't at full load, not in motion, and it's an average windy night, you need more than 20-30 seconds of contact because you are going to have to get that cable, full width, to over 2000F, depending on the alloy in the cable, to weaken it to the point of failure.

    IANAME (but I did study engineering once)
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Yeah, think World Trade Center. You don't even need to cut through the cable if you heat it up enough.
    WTC toweres had massive structural damage, unexpected loading due to sagging, and fires reaching nearly 1800*F burning for an hour+ in a building with a safety factor of 1.2-1.4 (before it was smashed by planes piloted by suicidal terrorists).

    Steel cable with a safety factor of 8x worst case, not at worst case, without physical damage of the cable, sure you can probably still fail it at 2000*F, but you aren't not accomplishing that with a little bit of thermite haphazardly contained.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Someone forwarded me a copy of the report from 2014 that I remember reading years ago.
    Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  18. #118
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    Put that gondola on a treadmill, does it go uphill?

    I think the answer you all seek lies within this question.


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  19. #119
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    easy enough to hike back up to the top and head out the old road... for those curious about access.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    If the cable is engineered with a safety factor of 8x (for full load, in motion, in worst design wind conditions), and you aren't at full load, not in motion, and it's an average windy night, you need more than 20-30 seconds of contact because you are going to have to get that cable, full width, to over 2000F, depending on the alloy in the cable, to weaken it to the point of failure.

    IANAME (but I did study engineering once)
    Those cables have a safety factor of 8? That is stupid crazy high haha. Im not doubting, but IME factors of safety over 2 are typically reserved for situations where the engineer is doing a good amount of guessing as to site and loading conditions and/or there is a serious threat to life safety functions for society eg hospitals, fire stations etc. Hell, even geotech safety factors dont get that high. That is crazy high if true.

    Regardless, the vessel would just need to melt at the same relative speed as the cable would need to weaken. Meaning that the vessel could be a much weaker material than the cable. And heated material doesnt weaken in a linear fashion. IDK, doesnt seem that difficult to execute, but then again ive never tried haha.

  21. #121
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    Gondola cable snaps

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    WTC toweres had massive structural damage, unexpected loading due to sagging, and fires reaching nearly 1800*F burning for an hour+ in a building with a safety factor of 1.2 (before it was smashed by planes piloted by suicidal terrorists).

    Steel cable with a safety factor of 8x worst case, not at worst case, without physical damage of the cable, sure you can probably still fail it at 2000*F, but you aren't not accomplishing that with a little bit of thermite haphazardly contained.
    Steel will elongate and start to fail at lower fire temps. Cable needs far less explosives for cutting than structal members I think its Diameter squared=lbs of explosives needed for cutting cable. Thermite bars/ rods are used in the welding industry for cutting thick steel as well
    I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    If the cable is engineered with a safety factor of 8x (for full load, in motion, in worst design wind conditions), and you aren't at full load, not in motion, and it's an average windy night, you need more than 20-30 seconds of contact because you are going to have to get that cable, full width, to over 2000F, depending on the alloy in the cable, to weaken it to the point of failure.

    IANAME (but I did study engineering once)
    It seams feasible to make in a garage shop using a machineable ceramic. Use a long strip of magnesium metal ribbon ("borrowed" from any college chemistry lab) to ignite it from the base of the tower.

    Thermite cable cutter

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Regardless, the vessel would just need to melt at the same relative speed as the cable would need to weaken. Meaning that the vessel could be a much weaker material than the cable.
    Good point. I can't argue with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #124
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    I'd choose a ceramic mold for the thermite, personally.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  25. #125
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    Perhaps squirrels ate thru the cable?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

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