Gondola cable snaps

[muted]

If the circumstances of the bait-and-switch on land-use is true, the guy(s) that did this are firmly in legendary Monkey Wrench Gang territory.

[XXX-er]

Google squamish 5 for a fine history of monkey wrenching in Squamish

[muted]

holy balls a member of Subhumans was part the Squamish 5?! I'm not sure how this group never crossed my radar when I was young, but thank you. Whomever makes the inevitable documentary on the present day 'Squamish Cutters' 2 or 3 or 5 or whatever the number may be, will certainly reference The 5 in the movie, IMO. Has to be an influence.

[XXX-er]

yeah Gerry Hannah, he was one of my Alma Matter along with Joey Shithead, Dimwit and Chuck Biscuits

I knew Joe pretty well, kinda knew Dimwit and Chuck Biscuits but I don't remember Gerry Hannah at all

No big deal nowdays but this was 1975 so punk rock hadn't really been invented yet so we were like wtf when buddy puts on a leather jacket & cuts all his hair off

1st time ever seen Gerry was 20 yars ago at a bush party where he got up out of the crowd to do " slave to my dick "

[muted]

Ha, that's great. I kinda liked DOA, Subhumans I don't really have an opinion of but have respect for, and Chuck played in so many legendary bands I liked...damn.

[XXX-er]

I went thru HS with joe he was a smart guy so we used to copy off each other in social studies, same gym classes, Chuck and dimwit were real stoners & lived up the block, I would hear Gerry being called to the office all the time probably for skipping out but I had no idea who he was none of us was even remotely anywhere near cool

so I have a very different view of the early punk scene in Vancover

[Jacques Strap]

I went thru HS with joe he was a smart guy so we used to copy off each other in social studies, same gym classes, Chuck and dimwit were real stoners & lived up the block, I would hear Gerry being called to the office all the time probably for skipping out but I had no idea who he was none of us was even remotely anywhere near cool

so I have a very different view of the early punk scene in Vancover

Holy fucking shit. That's some OG, legit, street cred. You go to Rock Against Radiation, too?

[XXX-er]

Joe wrote a book called " I shithead a life in punk " i recognize some names from the 1st chapter and i wasnt in it but thats about it, I was never into punk music, i was just starting my lifetime gig at IBM, I was listening to rock music & wearing golf shirts fer chrisake, I just happened to be there man

These guys were just neighbor hood kids from highschool, punk music hadn't even been invented, so when somebody sez hey Joe is busking for quarters in front of the liqour store, he has cut off all his long hair, is wearing a leather jacket and he calls himself Joey shithead we were all like wtf but of course nowdays it wouldn't be a big deal

none of us were even remotely cool or we would have become charted accountants or hockey players or sft, Joe was always a pretty good athelete and a good guy

[Jacques Strap]

I just happened to be there man

Ha! Well, thanks for some off-thread-topic reminiscing, dude.

Your sentiments emphasize the point that before Nirvana, Green Day, and Blink-182, punk was absolutely not cool. Punks were weirdos, outcasts, druggies, or trouble.

[Flounder]

Punks were weirdos, outcasts, druggies, or trouble.

What's with the "or"? I was all four!

Prime example of uncool wierdo, Ms. Poly Styrene.

https://youtu.be/4v7_Iv_vGK4

[pureantigravity]

In the forensic analysis of the first cable cut you can see that the cut lines are slightly curved. Knowing the thickness of the cable, you can infer the diameter of the cutting instrument, around 25-30cm, quite large. So likely a battery powered circular saw or conrete cutter. The police are unlikely to publicise this, although obviously they know. Also, sounds like they probably have actual footage of the second incident

Also, the perpetrators may have sent a letter, manifesto etc. The police would be unlikely to publicise this. Firstly because giving it publicity helps achieve the aims of the perpetrators. However, secondly they keep it secret, to see if it surfaces anywhere. For example, say someone posted on this thread with similar information, or wording, the police would know they had inside information.

Definitely wasn't me .... not allowed in your country at the moment

Interesting. Not to derail the DOA and crew conversation but they never released any information about how the original cable was cut.\
(Apart from the obvious lasers and/or wind theories).

Google "Technical Safety Sea To Sky Gondola Aug2019.pdf"
A few rope pictures there and a diagram of what was cut, and what split on its own and what was cut_and_split on its own.

The rope is a 6x36 with a total of 216 wires in it:
- 67 clean cut
- 54 split under tension
- 95 semi-cut

Now, for sure I cannot see how that is a factor 4+ rope since they say the last TWO cables split completely on their own, and that after a number of others split somewhat on their own. That means that 44% split after 'some assistance' and 25% split entirely on their own. It would seem that less than 50% of the rope would not last long as a support.

Despite the design factor of the rope, it is obvious that it is quickly degraded with some sorts of damage.
I digress ...

With the 44% that split semi-autonomously and the 25% that then spit entirely on their own, the tension must have made it very fast to cut the first 30%.

If said person(s) or combination of wind(s) resulted in the cut, how quickly could this be accomplished with some tools?

There is another picture on the report, and it shows the heat discoloration mark around a strand.

Would a reciprocating cut saw cause heat like that?

Would a cut off disc cause that?



Now, let us not forget that this project was a commercial project, in contravention of a restrictive covenant when it was sold by the Land Conservancy of B.C. (TLC), (with funding from businesses and individuals) --- altogether hinting at some level of ignorance or corruption with the original approval of the gondola project.

... Let there be no mistake, this was not a project to enrich the Squamish economy or local people's. A lot of the staff are Aussies (my impression from the nationality of people providing employment reviews online there), many get paid almost minimum wage ($14.75), there are *some* reviews that say it is a horrible place to work, and most of the income is from international tourists (my assumption).

That's not to say there isn't a lot of good it does for some people (some local businesses and persons). Although the people at Britannia Creek and Squamish locals that work in Vancouver must be a little incensed by the increased traffic.
Oooops. I digressed again!


That greatly widens the number of possible suspects/motives, and also provides a good excuse (lower moral culpability) if the perp is ever found. Especially since it is obvious that the WIND acted at a time when there would not be any personal harm to customers or employees.

There is also a lawsuit ongoing ($15M???) between the owners and another local company/individual? (Not terribly familiar with the details).

Anyways, I just placed my order for the Monkey Wrench Gang on Amazon!

[tetzen]

That wind sure is smaht.

[ThreeRidges]

Hayduke Lives!


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[muted]

Hayduke Lives!


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

He does, thankfully. Grizzly Years is a great book.

[~mikey b]

He does, thankfully. Grizzly Years is a great book.

yes


read this

[LongShortLong]

There is another picture on the report, and it shows the heat discoloration mark around a strand.

Would a reciprocating cut saw cause heat like that?

Would a cut off disc cause that?

I think both could produce enough heat. The videos I found of wire cable cutting with abrasive wheels looked like it would take too long. One used like a 12 inch wheel powered off a tractor and it still took a few minutes.

One cutting tool I saw that looks promising is a handheld battery-power bandsaw. Use an aggressive blade since it only needs to cut one cable.

Speed is why I liked the hammer powered sheer, though I wouldn't expect much heat from that. There's also hydraulic sheers. Specialized tools are more traceable though.

Now, let us not forget that this project was a commercial project, in contravention of a restrictive covenant when it was sold by the Land Conservancy of B.C. (TLC), (with funding from businesses and individuals) --- altogether hinting at some level of ignorance or corruption with the original approval of the gondola project.

Did the conservancy complain about this? Or the original owner/family? Surely there were various meetings for public input before they started planting towers.


In that pdf, I notice the haul rope had an area of previous damage. Does that mean it took two attempts to get the deed done? Or does it suggest an operational/design problem causing rope damage, that is not malicious. Also, the quoted 4.83 design factor does not seem to jive with the amount of rope damage in image 6. (I'd expect as little as 1/4 of the rope to hold, but I am no expert on how tensioned ropes fail whilst being cut - it's possible the partially failed/cut rope redistributes stress unevenly to the remaining strands, causing successive individual failures leading to total failure)

Are you seeing the heat discoloration in image 4, or some other report? If image 4, I'm unconvinced. Only one strand shows anything that might be discoloration.

That damage pattern in figure 6 could be consistent with hydraulic sheers. There's also drill powered sheers used on communication cables, maybe not strong enough for this??? Again though, this is one of those things where you either need experience or a lab to test theories.

[pureantigravity]

In that pdf...

Up until now, I've only seen this one: "Incident Summary #II-890649-2019 (#14784) (FINAL)"

However, I just found this via a simple Google search and it has a lot more photos of the damaged rope, including some of the detailed high magnification microscope images of the wire cuts:

https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/sit...ix_Aug2019.pdf

It is labelled: File Number: 60515188 – Revision 1, Date: August 23, 2019.
It is provided by Acuren Group Inc. to Technical Safety BC, in Richmond, BC.

Let's look at your comments again in light of that new data.

[LongShortLong]

Nice find.

My guess is the squirrels used a grinding wheel (laser guided ofc). I don't know enough to say. My guess is partly due to thinking "grinding wheel" fits in one of the gray redactions. From the amount of redacted detail in the FINAL report, I'd guess RCMP has a pretty good idea exactly how it was cut. Whatever was used, there would be physical evidence remaining in the form of abrasive bits. They've probably chemically analyzed these (some electron microscopes can give an elemental breakdown), and might even know the brand name.

I see the added detail of wrapping the rope with tape to prevent unraveling while cutting, but think Acuren is talking about the post-accident cuts made to prepare the rope ends (evidence) for offsite analysis. The squirrels could improve jobsite safety with a similar approach. Given they've done this twice with no sign of even ruffled fur, safety is for sissies?

[Dee Hubbs]

Dewalt 60V Flexvolt 9" cutoff saw.
https://www.toolboxbuzz.com/head-to-...s-cut-off-saw/
"The performance of the three saws were evaluated cutting steel. We put the saws through their paces by cutting five “ganged-together” set of #5 pieces of rebar. In addition, we cut through a piece of structural steel C-Channel. The TBB crew kept the saws spinning at, or near, they’re “sweet spots” for performance by modulating the pressure on the saws. The DEWALT was the fastest cutting at 14.7 seconds"

[pureantigravity]

Nice find.

My guess is the squirrels used a grinding wheel (laser guided ofc). I don't know enough to say. My guess is partly due to thinking "grinding wheel" fits in one of the gray redactions. From the amount of redacted detail in the FINAL report, I'd guess RCMP has a pretty good idea exactly how it was cut. Whatever was used, there would be physical evidence remaining in the form of abrasive bits. They've probably chemically analyzed these (some electron microscopes can give an elemental breakdown), and might even know the brand name.

I see the added detail of wrapping the rope with tape to prevent unraveling while cutting, but think Acuren is talking about the post-accident cuts made to prepare the rope ends (evidence) for offsite analysis. The squirrels could improve jobsite safety with a similar approach. Given they've done this twice with no sign of even ruffled fur, safety is for sissies?

"but think Acuren is talking about the post-accident cuts made to prepare the rope ends "

That's how I understood it too. I have no idea what was used from the ends of the wires photos. If a cutoff disc was used, would there be heat related scarring? That would also produce a lot of sparks that could be seen at night.

Dewalt 60V Flexvolt 9" cutoff saw.
https://www.toolboxbuzz.com/head-to-...s-cut-off-saw/
"The performance of the three saws were evaluated cutting steel. We put the saws through their paces by cutting five “ganged-together” set of #5 pieces of rebar. In addition, we cut through a piece of structural steel C-Channel. The TBB crew kept the saws spinning at, or near, they’re “sweet spots” for performance by modulating the pressure on the saws. The DEWALT was the fastest cutting at 14.7 seconds"

14.7 seconds. Holy cow! Seems to be the tool of choice.

See below, the Diablo sawzall carbide blade did three 4" cuts through 3/8" steel in an average 36 seconds per cut. That's probably the same amount of steel as in the 50mm diameter rope (with plastic core) and they say a lot broke when partially cut, and the last two bundles broke clean on their own. So ... something like a 20 second job or maybe 1 minute if the saw needs repositioning to avoid unravelling stuff?

No sparks, fairly quiet and portable. Depending on the place on the tower the cable was cut, the sawzall could be wedged against something and pulled on, cutting it from the bottom side up first, avoiding any wires sproinging about.

These blades cut steel so easily - it is impressive to say the least!

DIABLO CARBIDE TIPPED BLADE

[pureantigravity]

Maybe it was these guys.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...with-graffiti?

[billyk]

"but think Acuren is talking about the post-accident cuts made to prepare the rope ends "

That's how I understood it too. I have no idea what was used from the ends of the wires photos. If a cutoff disc was used, would there be heat related scarring? That would also produce a lot of sparks that could be seen at night.



14.7 seconds. Holy cow! Seems to be the tool of choice.

See below, the Diablo sawzall carbide blade did three 4" cuts through 3/8" steel in an average 36 seconds per cut. That's probably the same amount of steel as in the 50mm diameter rope (with plastic core) and they say a lot broke when partially cut, and the last two bundles broke clean on their own. So ... something like a 20 second job or maybe 1 minute if the saw needs repositioning to avoid unravelling stuff?

No sparks, fairly quiet and portable. Depending on the place on the tower the cable was cut, the sawzall could be wedged against something and pulled on, cutting it from the bottom side up first, avoiding any wires sproinging about.

These blades cut steel so easily - it is impressive to say the least!

DIABLO CARBIDE TIPPED BLADE

I don’t know. Are we sure it wasn’t the wind? Seems like someone has gone to extreme lengths to hide a systemic safety issue!

[steff]

a lot of people here know a lot about cutting cables...

[pureantigravity]

A fresh news cable:

Sea to Sky Gondola sues insurers for alleged negligence amid pair of vandalism attacks
https://globalnews.ca/news/7571191/s...rance-lawsuit/

'The suit also alleges a pair of oral contracts with the two insurance agents — one through Jardine Lloyd Thompson, the company originally responsible for the policy, and the other with Marsh and McLennan — guaranteed the defendants would “put into place appropriate and adequate insurance coverage” for the gondola.'

They didn't read the policy before signing it? Are they suing both insurers? Maybe someone can make sense of this.

[shirk]

Is there a pool where we get to pick when it will get cut again?

I give it 9 months after it's up and running again.