Jeff Epstien dead! Yay.

[Bobby Stainless]

We're not inherently good.

Lord of the Flies. Heart of Darkness.

[Bobby Stainless]

And what ZZZ said. And posting in an internet forum is not activism.

Sure it is... Just stroll through Polyasshat. All sorts of good work getting done in there.

[frorider]

https://newrepublic.com/article/1547...effrey-epstein

Take Ohio, as an example. Remember Ariel Castro, the high-profile “Cleveland kidnapper”? He killed himself in a jail cell in October 2013 and then his guards falsified their logs to hide their incompetence. Remember Billy Slagle? He committed suicide in an Ohio jail hours after prosecutors discovered evidence that might have spared him. Pick a state, any state, and similar stories abound. Hundreds of men and women kill themselves in their cells. How many guards do you think are disciplined when these suicides occur? How many lose their jobs?

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, but, this isn't just any inmate. This guy lived in the largest private residence in Manhattan, owned an island with a resort like home on it, and socialized with the political and financial elite of the western world. I say, follow the money.

[ill-advised strategy]

it's all feedback loops these days

1 - society demands harsh punishment for crimes
2 - congress is hopelessly corrupt & protects prison complex
3 - prison complex dehumanizes inmates systematically
4 - dehumanized inmates somehow lose any remaining ability to interact with humanity in a healthy manner
5 - society demands reform from prison complex
6 - repeat step 2
7 - recidivism among prior inmates escalates, revert to step 1

imho the thing that has the most potential to interrupt that cycle is high-enough demand for unskilled labor that employers have to tolerate shitty workers and lower-than-current productivity just to keep things operational. Also imho, the thing that could produce that kind of environment is a massive dispersed effort to fix and rework our public infrastructure....roads, bridges, schoools, electricity, plumbing, transit, airports....all of it at once would have second and third order impacts of creating all kinds of demand for these people who are now, essentially, dispersed surplus unskilled labor in the post industrial US economy.
It’s like 10 birds with one stone...wealth redistribution, criminal justice reform, urban renewal, fighting and mitigating climate change, putting hopeless broken people in a position where they have a realistic easy shot at making a square living....
To me it all forms one big picture. People get all nervous and squirrely when you break it all up into individuals and focused narrow-picture discussions about the exact details of each project.

Let’s put a fuckload of nerds working on collecting all the taxes everyone dodges and repatriating from tax havens. Then let’s move budget from wars and battleships and fighter jets into domestic infrastructure projects. Then watch the wages come up and the crime rate drop as employers scramble to fill all those positions.

[jackstraw]

We don't even have a culture that respects the process required to learn & iteratively improve outcomes & processes.

Which is mind-boggling considering how edumicated we are as a society.

Quicker, faster, cheaper.

[SumJongGuy]

Nerds on problems is the ticket, no doubt. There're just so many pitfalls that beset large centralized orgs in terms of agency conflict, outside interference, information asymmetry, etc. We don't even have a culture that respects the process required to learn & iteratively improve outcomes & processes. With that cultural headwind and the ingrained dysfunction of the govt I have extremely low expectations.

Which is mind-boggling considering how edumicated we are as a society.

Quicker, faster, cheaper.

Even the US sports reflect the restrictive plan plan plan execute cycle of doing things rather than emerging, iterative strategy and planning. Look at our Football versus the Futbol of the rest of the world. Ours is a lot of standing around planning and scheming for only a minute or two of actual action. Rest of the world... hold my beer and watch this play eventually come together..

[Benny Profane]

imho the thing that has the most potential to interrupt that cycle is high-enough demand for unskilled labor that employers have to tolerate shitty workers and lower-than-current productivity just to keep things operational. Also imho, the thing that could produce that kind of environment is a massive dispersed effort to fix and rework our public infrastructure....roads, bridges, schoools, electricity, plumbing, transit, airports....all of it at once would have second and third order impacts of creating all kinds of demand for these people who are now, essentially, dispersed surplus unskilled labor in the post industrial US economy.
It’s like 10 birds with one stone...wealth redistribution, criminal justice reform, urban renewal, fighting and mitigating climate change, putting hopeless broken people in a position where they have a realistic easy shot at making a square living....
To me it all forms one big picture. People get all nervous and squirrely when you break it all up into individuals and focused narrow-picture discussions about the exact details of each project.

Let’s put a fuckload of nerds working on collecting all the taxes everyone dodges and repatriating from tax havens. Then let’s move budget from wars and battleships and fighter jets into domestic infrastructure projects. Then watch the wages come up and the crime rate drop as employers scramble to fill all those positions.

We do this on the state level. NY, NJ, and CT all have special units that enforce their tax laws when some rich guy tried to fake it that they are a Florida resident. Means hundreds of millions, and it works. Can be done.

[Timberridge]

I marvel at how discussions on TGR can move from something such as teenage sex slavery into a debate on the US tax code.

I give it another 8 pages before it morphs into a debate about rising sea levels and the effect on coastal communities.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Don't you know that a revised tax code is the answer to eliminating child sex rings? The offenders will be too busy working or counting the money they are making off ex-con laborers.

[abraham]

https://newrepublic.com/article/1547...effrey-epstein

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-death/596029/

Here, to help you evaluate that claim, are 32 short stories about in-custody deaths or near-deaths in America.

These stories don’t mention Jeffrey Epstein, but they are about him. Epstein was incarcerated in the United States of America, and this is how the United States of America, the mightiest and richest nation there is or ever has been, treats incarcerated people. When you say, “There is no way that guards could be so reckless, so indifferent, so malicious as to just let someone as important as Epstein die,” this is how 32 Americans respond. Many, many more could respond in kind.

Francisco Castaneda died of cancer in 2008 after having his penis amputated. His federal jailers repeatedly failed to offer any treatment for his metastatic penile cancer, despite his pain and pleas for help.

Terrill Thomas died of dehydration in his cell in Milwaukee after jailers turned off the water to his cell for seven days. The jail was under the leadership of then-Sheriff David Clarke, a hero to law-and-order types.

Jonathan Magbie, a paraplegic in a wheelchair who needed 24-hour care, was arrested for marijuana possession in Washington, D.C., in 2008. He required a ventilator to breathe when he slept. The jail didn’t have the facilities to care for him, and so he died in jail.

Andrew Holland died in a restraint chair in San Luis Obispo County, California. He was strapped to the chair, naked, for two days. If you like, you can watch video of the guards laughing as medics try fruitlessly to perform CPR, though I would not recommend it.

The story of Shamieke Pugh and Maurice Lee has laughter, too, but I don’t think it’s funny. Maybe I’m humorless? Pugh and Lee were African American, and they were handcuffed, helpless, to a jail table when they were stabbed by a white supremacist. The guards laughed.

Darren Rainey was an inmate in South Florida. Guards put in him a shower stall, locked the door, and turned on the hot water. Then they taunted him, saying, “How do you like your shower?” He died. Though witnesses said he looked like a boiled lobster, authorities declined to charge the guards and said that Rainey’s skin peeling off his body must have been “slippage” caused by attempts to revive him.

Michael Anthony Kerr died of dehydration, like Thomas, near Raleigh, North Carolina. Kerr—an Army veteran—was off his medications and lay in his own waste for five days before someone figured out he wasn’t eating or drinking. He was handcuffed the whole time; they had to cut off the handcuffs because the lock was encrusted with his feces.

David Oseas Ramirez, like Epstein, was accused of sexually abusing children. While he was in custody, nominally under the care of jail guards, his cell mate drowned him in a toilet.

Daniel Chong didn’t die—but he very nearly did. In 2012, the Drug Enforcement Administration arrested him at a friend’s house when it conducted a raid targeting Ecstasy distribution. DEA agents locked him in a cell, forgot about him, and left him there for five days. He drank his own urine, attempted suicide, and wrote a goodbye note to his mother before they found him.

Randall Jordan-Aparo was not so lucky. When Florida jail guards refused him medical care, he became agitated, and they sprayed him with chemicals of some sort to subdue him. His medical condition—noted in his file—caused breathing problems, and he died. Jail guards took to Facebook to ridicule him and celebrate his death.

Christopher Lopez was in jail in Pueblo, Colorado. He had seizures. The guards thought it was funny; you can hear them laughing and joking in the video as he dies. “I can see you breathing,” one of them says. She was mistaken; Lopez was already dead.

Jeffrey Lillis was arrested and jailed in Arapahoe County, Colorado, for drugs and theft. He was coughing up blood, and begged for medical care. He got only Gatorade and cough syrup, and died in a pool of blood and vomit of bacterial pneumonia.

Bryan Perry had a Purple Heart from his service in Iraq. He survived the war, but he didn’t survive the jail in Clackamas County, Oregon. His jailers laughed and joked as he died of a drug overdose, and took cellphone video. “We should go show this to his girlfriend and be like, ‘You love this?’” one of them says. She probably wouldn’t have.

Lamekia Dockery told staff at an Indiana work-release facility that she was having severe stomach pain and needed to go to a hospital. A guard recorded the response: “I advised her to stop over-talking me.” Dockery was vomiting repeatedly and couldn’t eat, but guards decided she was malingering. She died of sepsis.

Joseph Arquillo died of an overdose in the Cuyahoga County Jail in Ohio. On video, you can see him lying still on a mat for about an hour. A guard checked on him by walking up and kicking his mat, and then walked away. That didn’t work. He died.

Richard Tavera hanged himself with a bedsheet and a sprinkler in jail in South Georgia. A guard watched as he did it. Jail regulations prevented the guard from going into the cell on his own. He called for help, but it took 10 minutes for a supervisor to get there.

Paul Bulthouse died after experiencing 17 seizures in the Muskegon County Jail in Michigan. A guard watched through the window as he suffered through one and then walked away, apparently not taking it seriously.

Michael Marshall died in Denver’s downtown jail when he aspirated on his own vomit while being restrained facedown for more than 10 minutes.

Kenneth Dalstra killed himself in the Ionia County Jail in Michigan by drinking water for two hours until he died. He was on suicide watch. A guard told him to stop drinking, but he did not.

Timothy Souders died in the Southern Michigan Correctional Facility in 2006. He died of dehydration, chained to a concrete slab, on surveillance video.

Chris Howard was arrested when he failed a drug test—he had eaten a marijuana cookie—while on probation for drunk driving. When he had a seizure, Gwinnett County, Georgia, jail guards decided he was being “aggressive” and put him in a restraint chair, where he died without medical attention.

Allen Capers died in 2017 in South Carolina. After another inmate stabbed him repeatedly during a riot, guards dragged him into the prison yard and left him there. As he bled out, guards repeatedly walked about, looked at him, and walked away. The whole thing happened on camera.

Kory Wilson had diabetes. He was fine when treated with insulin, but he was in jail in Oklahoma City. They wouldn’t give him his insulin, and the jail had a policy that guards could not call for medical assistance without getting their supervisor’s permission. The supervisor couldn’t be reached, and when he returned, he said that Wilson was “faking it,” so Wilson died. They did offer him a cup of water, though.

Jeremy Alan Garza told prison guards in Michigan, where he was incarcerated, that he was going to kill himself. They allegedly laughed and told him to go ahead. So he did.

Jennifer Lobato was arrested on suspicion of shoplifting about $57 worth of merchandise from an Old Navy in Jefferson County, Colorado. She told jail staff that she was in withdrawal from opioids. “That’s why you shouldn’t do drugs,” a deputy said. She asked for medical care but didn’t get it, and died from vomiting so much that it caused cardiac arrest.

Cristobal Solano was arrested for disturbing the peace outside the Key Lodge Motel in Tustin, California. When he resisted a search of his mouth, at least seven guards piled on him, pushed his face into a concrete bunk, kneed him in the back, and sat on him as he screamed “Please, I can’t breathe!” He couldn’t, and he died.

Andrew Arevalo and Carlos Perez were in High Desert State Prison in Nevada when they got into a fight. They were both in underwear with their hands restrained behind their back, so it was mostly some shuffling and shin kicking. A guard shot them with a 12-gauge shotgun. Perez died. Arevalo was put in solitary confinement for 18 months on the theory that he was at fault for Perez’s death.

..........

These stories don’t mention Jeffrey Epstein, but they are about him.

[PNWbrit]

Shrieking heard from Jeffrey Epstein's jail cell the morning he died

How the fuck did he get a teenage girl in their?

[skaredshtles]

I marvel at how discussions on TGR can move from something such as teenage sex slavery into a debate on the US tax code.

You must be new to the internet?

[dunfree]

I'd argue we're remarkably ignorant considering the degree of technological advancement in the US. Nobody understands the why; we just build suites of heuristics to exploit our environments and pass it off as brilliance.

Nobody likes the honest answer for the why and so we are susceptible to all kinds of delusions, frauds and folderol.

[east or bust]

What’s the over/under on amount of days before Maxwell turns up dead too?

[dunfree]

I'm surprised her dad - who also died mysteriously - hasn't been worked into the conspiracy more.

[PNWbrit]

I'm surprised her dad - who also died mysteriously - hasn't been worked into the conspiracy more.

Bob Maxwell... had far too many dealings with that fat fuck back in London.. he got pushed off the back of his boat owing me a lot of money... Although I relize I wasn't the only one.

I remember the day that news broke like it was yesterday.

[Timberridge]

Novichok

[east or bust]

“4chan user posted about Jeffrey Epstein's death before it was public”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...t-was-n1041931


Aliens.

[PNWbrit]

Novichok

The most popular conspiracy was that it was Mossad... also possibly the royal family/Mi6

[Timberridge]

Makes sense, and throw the CIA in the mix. I gotta imagine that of the women who ran the day to day operations, one will sing in exchange for immunity and a book deal, and then the rest will fold. Nobody's paying their bills anymore.

Gonna be hard to kill all of them and make it look like an accident, even for the gov't spy agencies.

[iceman]

They should think twice before getting on a bus together.

[SumJongGuy]

The most popular conspiracy was that it was Mossad... also possibly the royal family/Mi6

[PNWbrit]

Princess Diana killed Maxwell in 1991 and Mossad got their revenge on her for it in... 1997... seems unlikely.

[SumJongGuy]

Princess Diana killed Maxwell in 1991 and Mossad got their revenge on her for it in... 1997... seems unlikely.

I was thinking it might have been Robert Wagner..