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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    9
    Quote Originally Posted by snowtastic View Post
    From what I understood, the basic notion was to try some new materials for the sake of novelty. For now, the skis arenít more sustainable than others although they are marketed as that. Damn! I felt the first podcast was basically advertising and some eloquent marketing mumbo jumbo without having any real benefit (at the moment that is).
    Itís an interesting concept and I would gladly try a pair but at the same time donít see why I should buy WNDR over a well established brand.
    As to why support WNDR versus any other established brand, just look down and see that the materials havenít changed that make up your skis. Those same brands use the same materials as all the others, just in a different configuration, shape and color. In some cases, they even feel the same. Weíve taken on the challenge to reinvent what these world class skis are made of. We have proven our worth in design, through decades of years in practice, producing award winning skis but out of the same old materials. For me this brand is more than a product, itís given birth to a community of influencers and advocates who are seeking change across a variety of technological and environmental interests, all seeking to play a role in reducing our impact on the tracks we create and leave behind. - Matt

  2. #27
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    Jan 2013
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    NWCT
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayItLeo View Post
    Matt, is Pep joining the squad?


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    Iíll answer my own question...
    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    There's no 666 in Outer Space
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    666
    Sorry, but until you can explain why your materials are more "sustainable", this is just greenwashing.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    9,122
    I think once you react the polyol with isocyanate or whatever you react it with to create the polyurethane, it's kind of a moot point where it came from. But if it makes you feel better that it came from currently living algae in a big stainless steel vat in CA vs. 1,000,000 yr old algae in a big hole in the ground in West TX, then by all means have at it.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
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    3,491
    I like the marketing approach of a ski for fall, winter, spring. Interested in seeing the other shapes


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,092

    Introducing WNDR Alpine

    Just appreciate the proactive dipping of the toe into the TGR waters. The posts so far prove the wisdom of the tip of the cap in this direction. Lots of open source knowledge here and I believe a collective desire for more environmentally sustainable ski construction.
    Uno mas

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Sorry, but until you can explain why your materials are more "sustainable", this is just greenwashing.
    Thanks for challenging us on this topic. It’s the very reason why no one is talking about it because it’s difficult to imagine making skis with some of their primary materials not being derived from petroleum.

    We are not making any claims that our skis are the most sustainable out of the gate, but the goal is move away from petroleum, and the oil we are using to build our composite core comes from a renewable resource. As we grow, more and more interior components of our skis will be made with this oil, which is less environmentally harmful than the petroleum alternative. We are also thoughtful about our manufacturing process and saving almost 2lb of waste from the landfill per pair over conventional processes. We have several initiatives we are taking, both in terms of our Checkerspot technology platform as well in how we produce, focusing on minimizing waste stream, clean energy consumption, all the way through reclaiming product at end of life as a feedstock to play a role in components for future skis using post consumer waste. These efforts combined will lead to impactful results but we are at the precipice of this project and we’re out recruiting skiers to join us now on this journey. - Matt

  8. #33
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    the vails
    Posts
    1,918
    How do you pronounce WNDR?

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by zartagen View Post
    How do you pronounce WNDR?
    Wonder

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,857
    Looks like oh-NEE-ders.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    At the North end of the Parkway
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    1,530
    Quote Originally Posted by wndr_alpine View Post
    Wonder
    I was thinking it was Wander.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,857
    Winder.

    (Wine-der)
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by PlayItLeo View Post
    Matt, is Pep joining the squad?


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    Yo PlayitLeo, it was so hard not to answer your question but you nailed it!

    Pep and I have been ski buds for 20 years or so. We have cultivated a great friendship over the years and now its honestly just a dream come true to work with him on WNDR, and to showcase the entire 'Pep Factor' package as we build this thing from the ground up. Here's a welcome vid we shot last week in the SLC Checkerspot Design Lab.


  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    tahoe de chingao
    Posts
    465
    Matt your post went from leveling with us to copypasta. Pepís post says #treadlightchargehard

    Iíve really enjoyed several of your ski designs and it sounds like an innovative product

    BUT REPLACING WOOD LAMINATE WITH ALGAE PLASTIC IS NOT TREADING LIGHT

    Hope the company continues to innovate and quits trying to make money by implying sustainability that doesnít currently exist


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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    19,945
    Wait. Why would I want this?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ross Thompson's land
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    616
    Quote Originally Posted by wndr_alpine View Post
    I see thereís some skepticism and curiosity surrounding our technology, its reference to sustainability and its integration into our skis!

    First and foremost, we're creating our products because of the new performance characteristics that our technology can unlock. In the case of the ski core, we developed a biobased material to improve bulk strength to weight, torsional rigidity, and dampness characteristics. These materials, aside from targeting our desired performance characteristics, are derived from a renewable resource - in this case, microalgae. Sure, the most sustainable ski possible would be hand carved out of a single plank of wood, but for those of us that want cutting edge performance from modern materials, this technology offers us something pretty revolutionary. Certainly not claiming weíre perfect out of the gate, but our technology provides us with a very real pathway to better products within an industry that historically has always had no choice but to rely on petroleum.

    For those that havenít had the chance to listen to the podcast, WNDR Alpine is the ďvehicleĒ for Checkerspotís technology to prove the superior performance of new materials and iteratively evolve them in ways that the oil industry has not.

    Checkerspot designs high performance materials at a molecular level with technology at the nexus of biology and chemistry. By engaging directly with product users and partnering with socially responsible corporations, we design and bring to market superior products with better materials to meet real needs. Our first materials are next-gen polyurethanes and textile coatings/finishes that make consumer products perform at levels never before possible. We are readying the release of several outdoor recreation products in the market to validate our approach and to kickstart a sequence of iterative projects based on our technology.

    Through large scale fermentation, we can deliver unique oils discovered in nature, but not previously accessible commercially. Our initial focus is on oils that can impart high value physical properties for materials by leveraging unique molecular scaffolds in a more sustainable fashion than incumbent petroleum inputs.

    Skis are largely reinforced by a wide range of petrochemical based polyurethane ďplastics.Ē We have the ability to change what these plastics are derived from: A cleaner, renewable, more sustainable approach to meet and exceed performance criteria we demand in our gear. - Matt


    This reads like it was written by Greg from Alpine Zone. Or Ernest Hemingway.


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  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    PC, UT
    Posts
    42
    To me, this seems like an experiment in new materials, which I am all for. As MS says, this is a vehicle for the lab to try a new kind of plastic. Right, isn't this algae-based core a new kind of plastic? To me, creating alternative types of materials that perform like plastic is a worthwhile endeavor. Reminds me a lot of the surf industry actually. When Clark Foam closed it's doors, the board builders were forced to re-imagine new core materials which has now led to more innovation in the industry. Of course, virtually no complex product like a surfboard or skis is going to be net carbon neutral but moving in that direction is necessary. Petroleum-based plastic production is a pretty dirty process. I can see this leading to a cleaner industry down the road a few years.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    house arrest
    Posts
    19
    TAKEBACK PROGRAM
    ...If you return your WNDR Alpine skis to us within three years of your purchase, we’ll take them back and safely upcycle them, while taking care to reduce environmental harm. And as a thank you for taking part in our program, we’ll give you 20% off on your next pair. - from https://wndr-alpine.com/products/wnd...17242238877786
    WNDR Alpine will offer a three-year buyback program to recycle and ultimately re-use old ski material. He won’t divulge details on exactly how the process works, but says Checkerspot has a method to undo the manufacturing process on skis to access the usable materials inside of them. - from https://www.tetongravity.com/story/g...country-skiing
    Quote Originally Posted by wndr_alpine View Post
    ...We have several initiatives we are taking, both in terms of our Checkerspot technology platform as well in how we produce, focusing on minimizing waste stream, clean energy consumption, all the way through reclaiming product at end of life as a feedstock to play a role in components for future skis using post consumer waste...
    Wow. Why tear apart a perfectly good rideable ski?

    - Does WNDR really expect the "end of life" of WNDR skis to be within 3 years of purchase?
    Heck, my 23-year-old Atomic Powder Plus started delamming at the tip last winter, but even THEY are not at "end of life" yet---they are only 1 T-nut away from being good-to-go again.

    - Does WNDR really expect that a 3-year-old WNDR ski will deliver such a poor riding experience that there's more value in tearing it apart to re-use its scrap materials, instead of letting another buyer ski it as a used ski for a few more years???

    - 3 years from now, when you A/B Test a used 3-year-old "CAMBER"-version Intention 110 next to a brand new "REVERSE CAMBER"-version Intention 110, do you really expect the softened CAMBER-version ski to perform WAY worse than the brand new REVERSE CAMBER-version?

    - So if a rich person wants to buy & return WNDR skis everyday all winter long, after only 1 day skiing per pair, then WNDR will tear apart ALL those returned 1-day-old skis, instead of selling them used to other buyers for more days of actual skiing???

    This nonsensical program seems like either WNDR has not thought this through, or else WNDR is trying to keep their skis off the used ski market, to boost sales of new skis, at the expense of the environment. Makes no sense to me.

    .
    Last edited by galileo; 09-12-2019 at 12:20 AM.
    "Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality."
    Einstein

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    PRB
    Posts
    21,084
    I appreciate what you say you are trying to do, sounds cool. And appreciate your willingness to subject yourself to the scrutiny of the unwashed masses of tgr. But agree with those who are skeptical, it does sound like green washing. Will there be any attempt to have some independent verification of your claims, or do we just have to take your word for it that your skis are more "green"?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    318
    If Pep is on board we should probably all do the same. FKNA PEP!

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