NBA 2019/2020 Thread

[MarcusBrody]

The more equal you make salaries, the more you would see talent consolidate onto a few teams. If I'm a second tier star like Victor Oladipo, why not go play with Lebron and Anthony Davis in LA rather than staying in Indiana? Right now the answer is that Indiana can/will pay me a lot more money, but if that wasn't the case, you'd see super teams like never before.

[riser4]

NBA salaries are already socialized to spread the wealth with max slots, etc. In a truly free market, the top guys would be making even more than they do now.

I say socialize it further. I'll show myself out now.

[riser4]

The more equal you make salaries, the more you would see talent consolidate onto a few teams. If I'm a second tier star like Victor Oladipo, why not go play with Lebron and Anthony Davis in LA rather than staying in Indiana? Right now the answer is that Indiana can/will pay me a lot more money, but if that wasn't the case, you'd see super teams like never before.

I don't have an answer for that.

[TahoeJ]

The more equal you make salaries, the more you would see talent consolidate onto a few teams. If I'm a second tier star like Victor Oladipo, why not go play with Lebron and Anthony Davis in LA rather than staying in Indiana? Right now the answer is that Indiana can/will pay me a lot more money, but if that wasn't the case, you'd see super teams like never before.

Yep, and if anyone was annoyed by the Warriors "super team" despite it being 90% built around their own draft picks, you'd be really pissed at what the league would turn into.

[cinnepa]

Bron....might have the best partner he ever had in AD. Sweep.

[Danno]

I don't think there's any "might" about it. AD is definitely the best sidekick he's ever had.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I don't think there's any "might" about it.

Dwayne Wade achieved a hell of lot more pre-Lebron than Anthony Davis did.

[MarcusBrody]

Bron....might have the best partner he ever had in AD. Sweep.

I don't think there's any "might" about it. AD is definitely the best sidekick he's ever had.

Dwayne Wade achieved a hell of lot more pre-Lebron than Anthony Davis did.

I think that "partner" is the key word. Wade was spectacular from 2005-2011 and good from 2012-2014, but he and Lebron's games never complemented each other as well as Lebron's (esp. at this stage of his career) and Davis's do. Wade was a great cutter, but Davis is also a good cutter and makes a better lob target. He makes a better roll man, and a Lebron/Davis pick and roll is more likely to create tough switches than a Wade/Lebron pick and roll (esp. when Davis is playing at the 5). Davis is also a better shooter than Wade, which means that whoever is guarding Davis has to choose whether to step in and stop a Lebron drive or stay near Davis. Wade is a better slasher and can get his own shot in more situations. He's also a better passer, though Davis has been improving there. Both of Wade's advantages were Lebron's strengths when they played together and Lebron was even better at them, so I think that Davis makes a better partner for Lebron even if Wade was probably a similarly top tier player (at least in his first year with Lebron).

[Danno]

Wade was a great player and inarguably had more pre LeBron success than Davis.

That said, if you were drafting and you could have peak Wade (even bearing in mind that LeBron never had peak Wade) or peak Davis (which LeBron does have), I think most GMs would take Davis.

[Danno]

I think that "partner" is the key word. Wade was spectacular from 2005-2011 and good from 2012-2014, but he and Lebron's games never complemented each other as well as Lebron's (esp. at this stage of his career) and Davis's do. Wade was a great cutter, but Davis is also a good cutter and makes a better lob target. He makes a better roll man, and a Lebron/Davis pick and roll is more likely to create tough switches than a Wade/Lebron pick and roll (esp. when Davis is playing at the 5). Davis is also a better shooter than Wade, which means that whoever is guarding Davis has to choose whether to step in and stop a Lebron drive or stay near Davis. Wade is a better slasher and can get his own shot in more situations. He's also a better passer, though Davis has been improving there. Both of Wade's advantages were Lebron's strengths when they played together and Lebron was even better at them, so I think that Davis makes a better partner for Lebron even if Wade was probably a similarly top tier player (at least in his first year with Lebron).

You didn't even mention defense, where there's no comparison.

[MarcusBrody]

You didn't even mention defense, where there's no comparison.

I do think that Davis is the better defender, mostly because he plays a more important defensive position, but prime Wade was a phenomenal defender as well. He was long, quick, and one of the best ever and jumping passing lanes. He was also really strong for his position, so could switch onto bigger players well. He has a couple of All-Defense teams himself (though he did get robbed of getting at least one first team nod in favor of older, more defensively apathetic Kobe). Again, though, you can say that Lebron is similar those characteristics (esp. in his Heat days), so Davis gets the nod both for absolute defense and fit.

[TahoeJ]

Wade is getting seriously underrated. Dude won a ring as the man on his own. That was his fucking team. He was GOOD.

He has that dog in him I have yet to ever see from AD.

[Danno]

He has that dog in him I have yet to ever see from AD.

Can't argue with that.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Yeah, I'm not surprised to read these responses, but the idea that Davis is clearly better than Wade is just wrong.

Davis is an excellent player who has been overhyped his whole career. He had less success as a team leader than Carmelo Anthony.

When Wade started playing second fiddle to Lebron, everyone forgot how good he was. Just like you guys.

Is Davis a better "fit?" Maybe, although I think that is overrated outside of extreme cases. And judging based these weird playoffs is tough. A bunch of good teams didn't really show up. The Lakers were nothing special during the regular season.

[MarcusBrody]

Yeah, I'm not surprised to read these responses, but the idea that Davis is clearly better than Wade is just wrong.

Davis is an excellent player who has been overhyped his whole career. He had less success as a team leader than Carmelo Anthony.

When Wade started playing second fiddle to Lebron, everyone forgot how good he was. Just like you guys.

Is Davis a better "fit?" Maybe, although I think that is overrated outside of extreme cases. And judging based these weird playoffs is tough. A bunch of good teams didn't really show up. The Lakers were nothing special during the regular season.

Again, I don't think that you have to believe that Davis is better than Wade to see that he's the best partner Lebron has had. It's about complementarity.

Though to argue in Davis's favor, he never was lucky enough to get a player the caliber of late prime Shaq traded to the Pelicans while he was there and he and the team had just abysmal injury luck.

I'd also argue that the Lakers did look like the best team by the end of the (regular) regular season. Right before the league shut down, they'd beaten both the Clippers and the Bucks in pretty comfortable fashion. To me they looked like the strongest team immediately pre-bubble.

[BobMc]

Jimmy Butler ain’t fucking around. Dude has been the badass of the bubble, don’t write off the Heat so fast.

[54-46]

Butler was the man tonight. LBJ and AD with 13 TOs.

[54-46]

Game 4 is some shitty assed hoops by both teams. My fucking eyes are bleeding

[BobMc]

Once again, Jimmy Butler ain’t fucking around. Lovin the Michigan connection with Duncan. I’ve never had anything against Lebron or the Lakers, but Jimmy’s story is more compelling.

[MarcusBrody]

Yep that was a spectacular basketball game, with all-time performances from Lebron and Butler. I'm glad the heat took it so we can watch them go at it at least one more time.

[stealurface831]

Even with a back and forth game into the final seconds, it was still boring as fuck. The NBA has a problem and it is their entertainment value. I love basketball and try my darndest to be a hornets fan. The madness is far and away my favorite sporting event without question but the NBA has become a fucking joke. There is the obvious discussion of the lack of defense but I think it has less to do with the style of play and more to do with the attitude of the game. I want to see people fired up. I want to see yelling and shoving every once in awhile. I want to watch some straight up characters like AI and Shaq and Garnett and Chuck. I want personality and passion. I want a good rivalry like the Celtics vs. Lakers, Bulls vs. Knicks, and Pistons vs. the world. But rivalries die with the formation of superteams. All these players are friends seem to share some common goal in the promotion of the league. They don't hate one another as they should to some extent. This is more recent shift and is apparent in all big 4s but the NBA is the worst in terms of being a "friendship league". The problem is that the marketability of the league itself has taken precedence over all aspects of the game. It is harder for fans to identify with a team. It seems like more and more people identify themselves as "NBA fans" rather than fans of a specific team. This is largely rambling because my disappointment over the last few seasons has come to a head with this abysmal finals. I don't know what needs to change but something does.

[MarcusBrody]

IF you think that was an abysmal game, I don't know what to tell you. It had two all time great performances, really good defense - sometimes outdone by even better offense, an unexpected hero (Duncan Robinson) stepping up huge, an underdog getting a close win, and even double technicals for some wrestling in the first half if that's what you like. These two teams clearly respect each other, but they haven't looked like they've been palling around at any point, even with James having played for the Heat previously under Spo and with Haslem.

[plugboots]

steal your face:
Yer wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[riser4]

Even with a back and forth game into the final seconds, it was still boring as fuck. The NBA has a problem and it is their entertainment value. I love basketball and try my darndest to be a hornets fan. The madness is far and away my favorite sporting event without question but the NBA has become a fucking joke. There is the obvious discussion of the lack of defense but I think it has less to do with the style of play and more to do with the attitude of the game. I want to see people fired up. I want to see yelling and shoving every once in awhile. I want to watch some straight up characters like AI and Shaq and Garnett and Chuck. I want personality and passion. I want a good rivalry like the Celtics vs. Lakers, Bulls vs. Knicks, and Pistons vs. the world. But rivalries die with the formation of superteams. All these players are friends seem to share some common goal in the promotion of the league. They don't hate one another as they should to some extent. This is more recent shift and is apparent in all big 4s but the NBA is the worst in terms of being a "friendship league". The problem is that the marketability of the league itself has taken precedence over all aspects of the game. It is harder for fans to identify with a team. It seems like more and more people identify themselves as "NBA fans" rather than fans of a specific team. This is largely rambling because my disappointment over the last few seasons has come to a head with this abysmal finals. I don't know what needs to change but something does.

Gwan now, it's past your bedtime.

[TahoeJ]

Sounds like a bitter Hornets fan.

I don't know how anyone could find the current state of college basketball entertaining but then say the NBA is boring. I feel pretty much the opposite.