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  1. #1
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    Vail Resorts Imperialism... is the joke on us?

    So MTN buys up Peak resorts at 2x market price. If climate change is real, the Great Lakes and Northeast resorts they will own will be the first to not hold snow.

    Is MTNís secret hedge that they will be a REIT whose land assets will match or exceed their ski resort value? Donít many of their properties exist on national land?

    If people will need to move to higher elevation in future years for cooler temps, do they see their pistes becoming housing developments?

    Or do they believe some technology will allow for real snow to be on slopes year round? (I.e. solar-powered coolers akin to ice rinks, an isotope of H or O that raises melting point of water, artificial snow, etc).


    I can understand why some people tour in National Forests on principle.


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  2. #2
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    Synthetic snow made from plastic bottles. The water is fucked anyway.

  3. #3
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    I doubt they are thinking much about their 30 year plan and are focused on their next 1-5 years.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd View Post
    If climate change is real, the Great Lakes and Northeast resorts they will own will be the first to not hold snow.?
    The Great Lakes and Northeast is colder than the west. Just sayin..







  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiBall View Post
    Synthetic snow made from plastic bottles. The water is fucked anyway.
    sharks favor plastic
    orca favor sharks
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

    Last year for 'Threads for Shreds' jacket trade in program!
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    20% Maggot Discount Code = 'MAGGOT20'

  6. #6
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    It is all in the water rights. This generations plastics.
    Live Free or Die

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    It is all in the water rights. This generations plastics.
    and ballbearings...all ballbearings these days.....
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

    Last year for 'Threads for Shreds' jacket trade in program!
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    20% Maggot Discount Code = 'MAGGOT20'

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd View Post
    So MTN buys up Peak resorts at 2x market price. If climate change is real, the Great Lakes and Northeast resorts they will own will be the first to not hold snow.

    Is MTN’s secret hedge that they will be a REIT whose land assets will match or exceed their ski resort value? Don’t many of their properties exist on national land?

    If people will need to move to higher elevation in future years for cooler temps, do they see their pistes becoming housing developments?

    Or do they believe some technology will allow for real snow to be on slopes year round? (I.e. solar-powered coolers akin to ice rinks, an isotope of H or O that raises melting point of water, artificial snow, etc).


    I can understand why some people tour in National Forests on principle.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    There's a ton of land in northern Canada that you should invest in.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTV View Post
    The Great Lakes and Northeast is colder than the west. Just sayin..
    So are your women.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
    °”rale, vato!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva View Post
    So are your women.
    Hotter and colder, all at once. You know those "Hot New Jersey Italian babes".







  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTV View Post
    The Great Lakes and Northeast is colder than the west. Just sayin..
    How often does it rain at 10,000+ feet in CO in the winter compared to the NE? Hate to break it to you, but reliable temps and snow conditions for skiing will exist throughout the high elevation areas of the Intermountain West for longer than the NE.
    I used to hike 2 hours for 10 minutes of turns on 207 gs skis, without needing ďskinsĒ or ďhike mode.Ē Tell me again how Iím a gaper.
    -mikdes26

  12. #12
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    That seems a bit over the op but who else would the joke be on? Certainly not the corporations who don't give a shit about anything other than $.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsummit View Post
    How often does it rain at 10,000+ feet in CO in the winter compared to the NE? Hate to break it to you, but reliable temps and snow conditions for skiing will exist throughout the high elevation areas of the Intermountain West for longer than the NE.
    OK professor - but don't worry, by then Vail will own everything and have artificial snow. And we'll all be gone







  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsummit View Post
    How often does it rain at 10,000+ feet in CO in the winter compared to the NE? Hate to break it to you, but reliable temps and snow conditions for skiing will exist throughout the high elevation areas of the Intermountain West for longer than the NE.
    Not a professional weather/climate prognosticator, but... Who's to say warmer climate does not include more persistent continental high pressure, i.e. Rex block. That would mean less precip in the west and more polar vortex in the east. I've read several times that arctic coldness drives the progressive weather patterns that bring the West's snow. The warming peeps say the arctic does/will get more than its share of the average warming. Haven't noticed whether that means warmer arctic summers, winters, or both.

    To the topic at hand, I agree MTN is short term focused. Stockholders and leadership will be retired before the climate gets too sideways. They may not even consider the possibility - humans are really bad at expecting the unexpected.

    Hmm... the Rex block idea is consistent with that forest they found under Fallen Leaf Lake near Tahoe. Trees date to the Medieval Warm Period. Maybe there was a persistent Rex block and it stopped snowing in Tahoe for a hundred+ years.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  15. #15
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    Op is right that these resorts will be earliest to have their snow seasons truncated by climate change.

    But MTN is happy to build alpine slides, roller coasters, and schedule all the summer bacon and wine festivals imaginable. Just so long as it isn't about mountain biking.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    It is all in the water rights. This generations plastics.
    Nope east water rights are not like the west
    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    I doubt they are thinking much about their 30 year plan and are focused on their next 1-5 years.
    Yep
    Quote Originally Posted by cmsummit View Post
    How often does it rain at 10,000+ feet in CO in the winter compared to the NE? Hate to break it to you, but reliable temps and snow conditions for skiing will exist throughout the high elevation areas of the Intermountain West for longer than the NE.
    Yep
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #16
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    In case the plastics reference didnít give it away....

  17. #17
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    This guy has interesting take.

    "Why do banks still invest in Florida if it's going to be under water?"


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpathian View Post
    This guy has interesting take.

    "Why do banks still invest in Florida if it's going to be under water?"

    ^ Summary: (several minutes, very highly charged with angry people) Non-expert dude says the globe's been 2 degrees warmer before, sea level was maybe 10 feet higher (based on scientists' report of Antarctic ice cores). Also argues why would banks be investing in Florida, London, all the other places at sea level, if the ocean's gonna rise 10 feet in the next 30-40 years. I.e. it's not gonna rise that much.

    He has a point. I believe numbers I've seen for last century of sea level rise are less than a foot. Found the link, 2016 global warming outlook by expert. 20 cm. More recent measurements (same link, a minute later) show a recent rate of 3.3 mm/yr. Let's be really pessimistic and assume the rate accelerates such that the next 40 years average 1 cm/year. At that (unrealistically high?) rate*, sea level only rises about a foot over the life of a mortgage.

    Banks invest in FL because it's very likely sea level rise will not submerge their collateral over the life of a loan. Banks also write mortgages for properties on cliffs, flood zones, wildfire areas, etc. I.e. greater risks.

    There's likely a similar argument for mountain temperatures, snowfall, etc. I'd guess 99% chance (I'm not a GW expert) there will be a ski season of some sort in twenty years. VR will make their money. Based on last century, there's a higher chance resorts will be closed b/c there's a world war on (5ish %). Similar chance for regular bad weather, drought etc.

    * There is concern that tidewater glaciers may pull a "Alaska's Columbia Glacier" and melt over a decade or two. I personally don't know how many tidewater glaciers exist or the possible sea level rise.

    All that said, I'm not sure we want a planet that's 2 degrees warmer. Nor do we want it to continue changing at the current rate. Nor do we want the risk that temp rises more than 2 degrees.

    Putting the investment perspective another way... If you knew for certain the world would be totally fucked in 40 years, would you pay any less for property? I might pay more. All of the living will be dead in a hundred years - that doesn't make investment bad. It's the wrong perspective for GW.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for your well thought response. That video was funny with them being all pissy pants.

    FWIW I live at about 10ft above sea level with a mortgaged house and have given some consideration to things actually being a problem in the future. My only hope is that the government will bail me out. I mean we will probably send a couple billion over to Bangladesh or wherever to atone for our sins when they get washed away, maybe I can get a cash payout and move to high ground as reward for poor planning with the settled science and all. Or am I fuct?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsummit View Post
    How often does it rain at 10,000+ feet in CO in the winter compared to the NE? Hate to break it to you, but reliable temps and snow conditions for skiing will exist throughout the high elevation areas of the Intermountain West for longer than the NE.
    Um the northeast ALWAYS has bouts of rain in the winter, since I was a kid and beyond. It has nothing to do with climate change or elevation and everything to do with the track of the storm - when the low pressure area passes enough to the west, warm air gets pulled up from the south by the counterclockwise circulation.. And the next day when the low is in Canada it pulls down arctic air, the "Montreal Express" northwest wind occurs, and the temp drops about fifty degrees. And then u get the bulletproof, and ski patrol is velly velly busy.







  21. #21
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    Well the bad news is I looked up tidewater glaciers, and there's piles of them. Half the Earth's ice is tidewater, including almost all of Antarctica. http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/gla...ea-level-rise/

    Contrary to some recent media reports I've seen, Antarctica is losing ice, and at an increasing rate (see another page at the above link). This sciencey looking website with citations, whose graphs have error bars, and language is hedgy, outranks the MSM for credibility. Though as I read further on that page, there are conflicting studies and conflicting influences, making it hard to predict what might happen. In the short run (decades), the ice sheets might go all Columbia, and the ocean rises. However, if the ice sheets hang on long enough, increased Antarctic snowfall due to a warming climate will tend to lower sea levels after a century or two. Idk what the Arctic is expected to do, sea level might still rise.

    Some of the pages on that site show some very ominous looking curves in the observed data (figure 2 here). However, they are ominous on a long timescale (centuries), assuming constant acceleration. The trend is really to short for me to project. Idk what the appropriate physical model is for ice melt or whether constant acceleration is a reasonable assumption. E.g. a one-hour car fire is about to end, where a one-hour forest fire is about to explode and burn for months. And the data I used is limited, so my projecting is speculative. Maybe we hit top end already. Maybe we just started idling forward and about to floor it. Since global warming gases are rising rapidly with no sign of control, the latter, "about to floor it," seems reasonable.

    To Alaska - Since 1980, half of Columbia Glacier melted. I've been there on vacation, and it's weird looking way up a mountain to the treeline where the forest begins (way up the canyon, too). It melted so quickly, little's grown where it was yet. Question is whether it was just Columbia's time to go, or is something changing that will trigger many glaciers?

    Sea level rise if all the world's ice melts is ~66m (~220 feet). ~90% of the ice is on Antarctica. ~9% is on Greenland. <1% is all the other glaciers. There's also sea level rise as warmer water expands. idk the numbers for that. Based on the estimates for current ice melting, maybe 2/3 of the current annual rise is due to non-ice factors, presumably warmer water.

    In recent years, Greenland primarily loses ice via melting. Antarctica via calving. So your nightmare may look like Greenland causes a few meters of rise, causing Antarctica becomes unmoored and goes all "Columbia!" on a vast vast scale.

    If 7% of Antarctica goes soon, your fuct. How likely is that? idk. How long will it take? Consult a glaciologist. Depending what the glaciologist says, and you start seeing it, see what the neighbors think about going in on a seawall. If half of Antarctica goes, I'll be uh houseboating with you.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva View Post
    So are your women.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
    Obligatory:

  23. #23
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    Is there really anything more nefarious to it than filling beds out west?

    Joe blow buys a pass for few days at the eastern home hill and a week out west.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiBall View Post
    Synthetic snow made from plastic bottles. The water is fucked anyway.
    I done told ya.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-microplastics

    Plastic was the furthest thing from Gregory Wetherbee’s mind when he began analyzing rainwater samples collected from the Rocky Mountains. “I guess I expected to see mostly soil and mineral particles,” said the US Geological Survey researcher. Instead, he found multicolored microscopic plastic fibers.

    The discovery, published in a recent study (pdf) titled “It is raining plastic”, raises new questions about the amount of plastic waste permeating the air, water, and soil virtually everywhere on Earth.

    “I think the most important result that we can share with the American public is that there’s more plastic out there than meets the eye,” said Wetherbee. “It’s in the rain, it’s in the snow. It’s a part of our environment now.”

    Rainwater samples collected across Colorado and analyzed under a microscope contained a rainbow of plastic fibers, as well as beads and shards. The findings shocked Wetherbee, who had been collecting the samples in order to study nitrogen pollution.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by capulin overdrive View Post
    Is there really anything more nefarious to it than filling beds out west?

    Joe blow buys a pass for few days at the eastern home hill and a week out west.
    That is the whole point of picking up these small east coast hills. Add to the Stowe and all the options of going out west, then you might just choose epic instead of skiing your other small hill option nearby that does not include anything but a small north east hill.

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