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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    352

    Is Shimano cycling division permafucked?

    Let's just move past how they gifted the mtb drivetrain market to SRAM by being about 5 years late to the 1x party. Skip right over their inability to produce a crankset that worked with their hyped 1x drivetrain when it finally did launch. Move past the fact that they hinted at a wireless DI2 version of XTR before the current XTR generation even hit the market, undercutting sales and defying every product marketing maxim known to man. All of this on a backdrop of production delays and laughable incompetence.

    What I want to understand is, AFTER ALL THAT is why they have granted exclusive license to their proprietary freehub REQUIRED for the new fucking drivetrain to DT Swiss exclusively and denied access to I9, Hope, Stans and every other hub manufacturer on earth. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM BUYING YOUR SHIT?

    Fine, you're too proud to use XD drivers (despite the fact that it's been open sourced, free to use and widely adopted) because it's designed by the company that thoroughly dong slapped you and using that tech would be like a mushroom shaped bruise on your face for all to see. Great, design your own shit, retain the rights to your super amazing freehub. But for fucks sake, grant license to use it so the market can adopt a product it's thirsting for.

    I need a new drivetrain and I'm fucking over sram and e13. The new narrow range 12sp shimano looks PERFECT and I'd pay retail for it today. But I have I9 and Hope hubs and fuck you if you think I'm rebuilding wheels to try your first worthwhile drivetrain effort in nearly a decade.

    Why does Shimano cycling exist? Sell it off to someone who cares and focus selling fishing rods to walmart or whatever the fuck it is you do.

    Is this why people ride singlespeeds?

  2. #2
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    Dec 2007
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    It's ok, even if you ordered it, there'll almost certainly be a "minor delay" at the factory so you won't get your drivetrain until sometime in 2021.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    1,926
    It is all about road and gravel bro.

    I wonder if they just got really upset that mtn Di2 never took off and said screw it we quit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    Didnt they have a factory burn to the ground that screwed all the new releases? I thought yhey were making the new freehub available to other companies? Pretty sure lite bicycles is offering their wheels with onyx hubs with that freehub as an option. I thought i9 as well and were negotiating with hope. I could be wrong on all that. Im interested as well. I heard the shifting is amazing under power. I want the cheap brakes first but id put that freehub on my hopes because it looks like a great design and the cassette

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Snowmass
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    I stand corrected, I9 has since been been licensed. Their's is $205. I suppose I deserve that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    I wasnt sure. I was asking about the groupsets just the other day. Shop owner had been checking but nothing yet. He said soon. He was allowed to demo the xtr

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    671
    I duno but their shit is cheap right now. Just bought a full 1x11 XT groupset for my rigid 29er for under $350 shipped. Cranks, chainring, derailleur, shifter, cassette, chain, BB.

    I'll take it. Sram GX groupset is at least $200 more and doesnt come with BB. Maybe they are going to release something new soon. But tbh, XT shit for that cheap is worth upgrading. Sram is nice but my whole groupset cost as much as a high end cassette of theirs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Da Siskiyous
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    1,334
    I hope it isn't permafucked. White Industries has a compatible rear hub. The shift quality of Shimano is far above SRAM, imo. The new stuff is amazing - shifting under load - fuck it, just go for it. No problem. Also, mineral oil instead of DOT.

    I've been riding Shimano 1x for half a decade. Never had a problem.
    Collectively enlightened since 2008.
    Eddie would go.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    Sram / Rockshox is owning the complete build game right now too. Every major bike company has a GX / Pike build for $5200 that is really all the bike that anyone needs. There is no reason to pay $7k+ for the XT / Fox build unless it comes with carbon wheels


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    [a] Van [down by the river]
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    It is all about road and hybrids bro.
    FYP.

    Find me a commuter/hybrid that isn't running shimano, even looking at road bikes, basically nothing is stock campy, and sram is pretty rare.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    YetiMan
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    $5200 that is really all the bike that anyone needs.
    Nobody needs a $5000 bicycle.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,744
    no, they arenít.
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  13. #13
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    Dec 2007
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    Shimano does a really good job of fucking over smaller retailers. They allow big online retailers to sell their stuff at ridiculous prices - sometimes below the wholesale prices that they offer to small shops. An XT group's msrp is actually about the same as GX. It's only cheaper because shimano doesn't enforce any pricing controls.

    I don't have any stake in that game, but it's kinda bullshit. A certain part of me enjoys watching sram kick the shit out of them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    South of 49
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    Let's just move past how they use slave labor in 3rd world countries to manufacture everything from fishing fly reels to bike cranks.

  15. #15
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    everything from fishing fly reels to bike cranks.
    By that you mean just fishing reels and bike drivetrains


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  16. #16
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    Jun 2009
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    South of 49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    By that you mean just fishing reels and bike drivetrains


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    correct

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Central VT
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    3,987
    Its absurd they announced the GRX group back in May for a late June release and dealers still have no idea when it will be available.

    Iím all in for SRAM but youíll have to pry XT disc brakes from my cold, dead hands.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    671
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Shimano does a really good job of fucking over smaller retailers. They allow big online retailers to sell their stuff at ridiculous prices - sometimes below the wholesale prices that they offer to small shops. An XT group's msrp is actually about the same as GX. It's only cheaper because shimano doesn't enforce any pricing controls.

    I don't have any stake in that game, but it's kinda bullshit. A certain part of me enjoys watching sram kick the shit out of them.
    I hear you, but once you go down that path we're all just living in one big fucked up world and nothing we do is right. I try to support my LBS as much as I can. I buy tires there that I know for sure I can get for $30+ less online. And I get maintenance done pretty often as well, bike is currently in the shop for suspension rebuild. But when both my bikes need new drivetrain and a full XT group is $350, shit happens. Hey, my brakes are Sram tho... and I got almost 3 years on my stock NX build.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    Shimano's gross revenue is over 2.5 billion, SRAM's is around 725 million. They're not going anywhere.

    And both have factories in China.

  20. #20
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Shimano's gross revenue is over 2.5 billion, SRAM's is around 725 million. They're not going anywhere.
    QFT...
    Big blue will do whatever they want, however they want...
    And, you will take it that way.
    Alpental Indigenous

  21. #21
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungpow View Post
    I hear you, but once you go down that path we're all just living in one big fucked up world and nothing we do is right. I try to support my LBS as much as I can. I buy tires there that I know for sure I can get for $30+ less online. And I get maintenance done pretty often as well, bike is currently in the shop for suspension rebuild. But when both my bikes need new drivetrain and a full XT group is $350, shit happens. Hey, my brakes are Sram tho... and I got almost 3 years on my stock NX build.
    For sure - I'm not blaming the people that buy the stuff. I'm just blaming the companies that perpetuate it.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    I’ve said it before...my new XTR stuff is flat out amazing. Just rode my Eagle XO1 bike this weekend...the shifting felt like cheap garbage under load.
    Shimano has its distribution issues, but the product is basically flawless.
    And that goes for the new brakes as well.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    671
    But in reality... WTF is a $1200+ XX1 groupset... I think $350 for a decent group-set is fair enough. But yeah, when online shops sell shit for less than basically what shops get at cost that's basically a fuck you to hard working LBS's. I have friends at bike shops who get shit online cus it's cheaper than their own shop discount.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    Agreed, I have a qbp account, and bought my entire grouppo in FEBUARY from Taiwan and Germany.
    They just shut down discounting in most of Europe, though.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
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    19,978
    XD is free to use now?

    Also, can you not use an XD cassette with XT stuff like in the old days of Sram and Shimano being somewhat interoperable? I know the XT cassette is 1 louder, but I feel like there's lots of options on that front.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

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