New Marker Tech touring binding 20/21?

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Marker products continue to deliver... My friend just broke a touring toe lever while trying to switch it to locked mode. Will try to post pics later. Place where it snapped looked very much the same as when marker had issues with metal in pins.

[Briangle]

First tour out on the Duke PTs and the touring toe lever snapped while doing some moderate traversing - such a disappointment as I had been *extremely* careful while locking out the toe due to the reports of people breaking the lever when pulling it locked. Seems like either a poorly thought out design, or a materials/manufacturing problem.

I was able to wrestle with it to get the toe-piece back on at the top and the descent was problem-free.

Really bummed because these things are bomber downhill (unlike reports I've heard from the Shifts). Hoping Marker can sort this out, because I'd much rather have a pair of these than fiddle around with the pre-release issues the Shifts have been having.

[snowaddict91]

Marker binders markering. What's new?

[point it]

After using the PT for a few days now I can say that for the most part I am really happy. As a 220 lb skier who has always been frustrated with companies prioritizing weight savings over durability I was interested when I heard my buddys complaining about the weight of the PT. So far, no snapped toe levers (hoping for the best..) I am using them on a pair of revolt's as a pow hotlap ski.

I do feel however that the brake/riser combination functions so poorly that I am at a loss for how it made it through R&D.

1: The flick lock mechanism that holds the break out of the way for skinning became engaged while I was skiing four times in two days (both shmoo skiing). I stepped out and the brakes did not pop down when I stepped out.

2: The riser does not stay up. The flick lock mechanism that holds the heel pad down/brakes up has a fair bit of its on play out of the box to begin with. This sloppy foundation combined with the riser’s plastic to plastic interface which also has slop itself left me with heel risers that popped back down while skinning many times over the first two days. I got to the point where I had to pretend I was slab climbing and not load the heel risers abruptly or torque my foot in a switchback whatsoever to keep them in the right position. By the end of the second day, the plastic to plastic interface already was noticeably looser than when I had started.

It really boggles my mind as to how the final design was approved, especially when there are so many other heel riser mechanisms Marker has used in the past which have never been an issue. Unfortunately it’s not really something I can ignore unless I just want to tour flat all the time so before I get day three on my sturdy steeds I need to do some sort of troubleshooting.

So as to not just have complained and bounced, I would like to throw out a few ideas that could be passed along to the Marker elites:

-Don’t use plastic to plastic interfacing for anything that is small, subject to torques and the standard means of interaction is one where a boot is trying to push it back down. You’ve gone basically full metal on the whole binding, skimping for plastic here to save X grams seems silly.
-Use a tempered metal to create a dynamic compression effect as the riser enters its up position so there is elastic absorption (like toe pieces) when these torques occur
-Take advantage of magnets if you don’t like the previous suggestion to draw the thing back into place when the boot makes it start to filp back down
-Reverse the kingpin mechanism with a centre lever to actually get some solid enagement, not the flick lock that flips up while skiing.
-adopt an approach used on split boards and have a separately mounted riser that leaves only one pivot point for slop
-use the riser style of the kingpin….. it has to go the opposite way of where the boot is forcing it with each step to end up disengaged.

Overall it still doesn’t make me want to not use these as they ski well and I do think that the heel mechanism could be replaced as a modular swap.

[GoldenBC]

Marker has said they had a bad batch of Dukes. I take this as all the Dukes are bad but they are hoping a portion of them don't break and they can save face. The toe levers snap off and leave the binding unable to ski or tour. They are saying it will snap with as little as 40nM.

Every pair I have seen minus 1 has snapped. I've heard of one person who tours frequently snapping 3. Marker has given shops a test to do before selling to ensure the binding is good. It involves hitting the lever with a rubber mallet. No joke.

[SkiLyft]

Marker is gunna Marker haha!!


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[1000-oaks]

Any ETA on v2.0 tech toes?

[nickel]

Marker has said they had a bad batch of Dukes. I take this as all the Dukes are bad but they are hoping a portion of them don't break and they can save face. The toe levers snap off and leave the binding unable to ski or tour. They are saying it will snap with as little as 40nM.

Every pair I have seen minus 1 has snapped. I've heard of one person who tours frequently snapping 3. Marker has given shops a test to do before selling to ensure the binding is good. It involves hitting the lever with a rubber mallet. No joke.

If anyone here is surprised to hear this, I don't know what to tell them. Marker products that perform as expected is the anomaly (ie alpinist)

[CaliBrit]

If anyone here is surprised to hear this, I don't know what to tell them. Marker products that perform as expected is the anomaly (ie alpinist)

Royal series bindings are great.

[snowaddict91]

Marker is gunna Marker haha!!


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Who could have possibly seen this coming?! A first year Marker binding with issues?!

[nickel]

Royal series bindings are great.

Meh. Great is subjective I guess. Plus, if you can't make a decent alpine binding at this point in the game, you should kill yourself.

[SoVT Joey]

Who could have possibly seen this coming?! A first year Marker binding with issues?!

I know right?! I hate when they fix it the first year. I mean shift is just punting into year three of trash.

Seems like a fairly easy fix. New toe lockout lever that is metal instead of plastic. Honestly doesn’t sound like the end of the world.

I’ve been waiting for mine to break but everything has been fine so far. They will definitely break when the replacement is out.

[fat yeti]

TJ Burke did warn us of the dangers of Marker Products in Aspen Extreme.


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[XavierD]

Still a better system then the shift or CAST (yeah, I said it). All in some snapping toe levers is pretty mild on the new touring binding problem list when we compare to the standard over the last decade.

[neonorchid]

Still a better system then the shift or CAST (yeah, I said it). All in some snapping toe levers is pretty mild on the new touring binding problem list when we compare to the standard over the last decade.

Why do think it's a better system than CAST?

[GoldenBC]

Still a better system then the shift or CAST (yeah, I said it). All in some snapping toe levers is pretty mild on the new touring binding problem list when we compare to the standard over the last decade.

I'm curious to hear your reasoning. To me, every Duke that I've seen or heard of has broken and fully exploded the toe piece leaving it useless up or down, doesn't seem like a mild issue. Sure, the concept could be better, but the binding is garbage.

That reminds me of my neighbours when I was young saying that their (unfunctional) tree fort was better than ours but their dad just didn't have time to finish it.

[mr_pretzel]

Why do think it's a better system than CAST?

The only reason I’d want a duke over the CAST is for the 9523 sole compatibility, but now that they seem to just explode I guess CAST is all there is.

[SoVT Joey]

I'm curious to hear your reasoning. To me, every Duke that I've seen or heard of has broken and fully exploded the toe piece leaving it useless up or down, doesn't seem like a mild issue. Sure, the concept could be better, but the binding is garbage.

That reminds me of my neighbours when I was young saying that their (unfunctional) tree fort was better than ours but their dad just didn't have time to finish it.

Mine seem to be fine... you seem to have a lot of use with them though. Care to explain how many you have personally broken??

[Tailwind]

Is there any consensus on how many of these actually broke? Like not do you know someone who it happened to… but more like 5% failed year 1 vs 20% failed if they were skied a lot.

I think the PT is a pretty dumb product in some ways but I’m also curious about a pair on Jeffery 110’s as a 90-10 resort to touring split. I can’t convince myself that I wouldn’t have issues with shifts with that type of usage in bounds.

Quiver killers is probably the answer… but I’m wondering about these.

[Spyderjon]

None of the toe levers on the PT's that I've sold have failed but their use will have probably been reduced by covid.

A couple of months ago Marker sent me replacement toes* for all the bindings I've sold (which I've sent to my customers) as well as for my remaining stock.

*Just the lower tech part without the upper alpine part.

[1000-oaks]

Called my local shop and asked if they also have the updated tech toes, and they said Marker sent them a call tag last season and took back all of their inventory, and then sent the shop new bindings. So it's possible the Duke PT's I bought from them already have the improved tech toe, but the shop isn't sure due to the timing.

How does one identify the updated tech toes, compared to the original version?

[cat in january]

Meh. Great is subjective I guess. Plus, if you can't make a decent alpine binding at this point in the game, you should kill yourself.

Laughed thinking of the very serious German engineers at Marker reading this

[Spyderjon]

Called my local shop and asked if they also have the updated tech toes, and they said Marker sent them a call tag last season and took back all of their inventory, and then sent the shop new bindings. So it's possible the Duke PT's I bought from them already have the improved tech toe, but the shop isn't sure due to the timing.

How does one identify the updated tech toes, compared to the original version?

There's no "improvement" in the new toe in that the design is exactly the same. The issue was due to a material fault not a design fault. Marker have either already supplied their dealers with replacement toes or are in the process of doing so.

The part numbers on the new toes are identical and there's no way to spot the difference between the two generations.

EDIT: See post #228 for an update re the difference between the two toes.

[1000-oaks]

Bummer, too bad they didn't put an ink dot or something on the replacements.

Will look into the "mallet" test. Anyone have a copy of the advisory?

[waxman]

Is there any consensus on how many of these actually broke? Like not do you know someone who it happened to… but more like 5% failed year 1 vs 20% failed if they were skied a lot.

I think the PT is a pretty dumb product in some ways but I’m also curious about a pair on Jeffery 110’s as a 90-10 resort to touring split. I can’t convince myself that I wouldn’t have issues with shifts with that type of usage in bounds.

Quiver killers is probably the answer… but I’m wondering about these.

I'd have to look at the records, I think all but one we sold broke a toe piece. more than 5 less than a dozen?