New Marker Tech touring binding 20/21?

[toast2266]

Not going to work ya jong.

Shift toe requires forward pressure to work. Just like all alpine toes. The Tecton and Kingpin heel exert no forward pressure.

But this new marker heel presumably exerts forward pressure.

[XavierD]

A couple things:

What makes you think a Tecton or Kingpin heel would offer any more damping than the shift heel. The shift heel really isn’t part of any it’s ongoing issues.

Also, both the tecton and KingPin clearly have forward pressure, as you set the forward pressure indicator on both. Neither have as much as a traditional alpine binding.

[1000-oaks]

Tecton heel is adjusted to maximize bite on the boot heel lug, but with zero forward pressure. If someone adjusts a boot incorrectly and dials in some forward pressure, the return-to-center operation of the toe carriage gets sticky or fails completely.

Fine-adjust heel one click at a time until a click results in no forward movement of heel, then back off one click. Check toe return-to-center to confirm. (Poor return to center can also be incorrect toe pin adjustment, but Dynafit spec fittings are usually fine out of the box.)

[DtEW]

As far as I can identify:

[cydwhit]

I am 100% sure that plenty of honkys are gonna buy this, and have at least one day this season where they get to the top and realize that they left the toe hoods in their other pack.

[MegaStoke]

I am 100% sure that plenty of honkys are gonna buy this, and have at least one day this season where they get to the top and realize that they left the toe hoods in their other pack.

Begging the question, can the tech toe be used to ski downhill at all?

[iriponsnow]

Begging the question, can the tech toe be used to ski downhill at all?

Absolutely in Tech Tele mode.

[XavierD]

I am 100% sure that plenty of honkys are gonna buy this, and have at least one day this season where they get to the top and realize that they left the toe hoods in their other pack.

I. CANT. WAIT.

[iriponsnow]

Stack height of 27mm is bogus FTR.

[cydwhit]

Absolutely in Tech Tele mode.

My second favorite downhill mode, eclipsed only by "Splitboard Split Ski Soft Boot Tele Mode." Man, I love long creekbed exits with snowboarders.

But seriously, stoked to see Marker try to keep up. Not interested in giving up Shift / Vipecs / CAST for this though.

The removable hoods seem like such a recipe for disaster. And letting them stay sort of on seems even dumber? Like, what happens when I leave them on in the open position for a yo-yo lap and then screw up a kick turn in deep snow and spend an hour digging for the hood I knocked off?

And what are the odds that Amer comes out with a 16 din Shift this SIA? Pretty dang high I'd guess.

[MnO_____]

What annoys me with the Shift are all the small issues that could have been so easily fixed if they just came out with a generation 2. Shift is impressive in terms of the overall engineering of the actual shift mechanism, but it is maybe the worst touring bidning I have ever tried when it comes to the little simple things. All engineering work seems to have gone into the much, much more complicated ski/walk shift and the simple details did not get the proper attention. The only opening for Marker to get a place in my quiver is if it can adress some of those annoying details.

The PT needs to
* Just have a normal working adjustable AFD and not the worst crap dito I have ever seen. The only reason for Shift beeing so embarrassingly bad in terms of the AFD must be some kind of patents blocking the way. Especially in alpine mode. I mean come on Salomon, what were you thinking? A penalty kick for Marker to make this better. Even if they try hard and put up a 1 million dollar reward to the employee that can come up with the most stupid AFD idea, they would probably still make a better AFD than Salomon.
* Not have a brake in walk mode that you can push down by really lightly step on it if you have just a little bit of snow stuffed under the stepping plate, while that stepping plate beeing designed so there is no chance what so ever to remove any snow. Also SUPER easy to improve this over the Shift. But Marker for sure fucked the break retention up in the Alpinist, so I have no high hopes in this regard.
* Not have a heel riser that is designed by a 7 year old that still uses diapers. Just give me some f-n kind of click, light lock or whatever that makes the riser not flip down as soon as you do some tracking in fresh snow. I'll even take magnets. If not, all they need to do is to make a heel riser that flips just a little bit longer so it doesn´t fall over.

Thats the easy points.

Then the more challenging stuff:
* Not break in normal use
* Keep me in as good as a Jester or Griffon. I personally find the Griffons to be the best 13 DIN binding out there on hardpack. If Marker can transfer that toe elasticity to the PT, I am interested. If they use the mechanics of the Squire/Tour however, I am not going near it. I cannot ski the Shifts without holding back slightly in pressured short turns on icy hardpack. Definately room for improvement in this regard.
* Have power transfer that makes it feel like a bombproof alpine binding. If they use the pins as the connector, it might work.
* Make a M-Works version of the PT that is 200 grams lighter.

IF Marker ticks all these boxes, I can live with the extra fiddle of a removable alpine toe piece.

[galibier_numero_un]

What annoys me with the Shift are all the small issues that could have been so easily fixed if they just came out with a generation 2. Shift is impressive in terms of the overall engineering of the actual shift mechanism, but it is maybe the worst touring bidning I have ever tried when it comes to the little simple things. All engineering work seems to have gone into the much, much more complicated ski/walk shift and the simple details did not get the proper attention. The only opening for Marker to get a place in my quiver is if it can adress some of those annoying details.

The PT needs to
* Just have a normal working adjustable AFD and not the worst crap dito I have ever seen. The only reason for Shift beeing so embarrassingly bad in terms of the AFD must be some kind of patents blocking the way. Especially in alpine mode. I mean come on Salomon, what were you thinking? A penalty kick for Marker to make this better. Even if they try hard and put up a 1 million dollar reward to the employee that can come up with the most stupid AFD idea, they would probably still make a better AFD than Salomon.
* Not have a brake in walk mode that you can push down by really lightly step on it if you have just a little bit of snow stuffed under the stepping plate, while that stepping plate beeing designed so there is no chance what so ever to remove any snow. Also SUPER easy to improve this over the Shift. But Marker for sure fucked the break retention up in the Alpinist, so I have no high hopes in this regard.
* Not have a heel riser that is designed by a 7 year old that still uses diapers. Just give me some f-n kind of click, light lock or whatever that makes the riser not flip down as soon as you do some tracking in fresh snow. I'll even take magnets. If not, all they need to do is to make a heel riser that flips just a little bit longer so it doesn´t fall over.

Thats the easy points.

Then the more challenging stuff:
* Not break in normal use
* Keep me in as good as a Jester or Griffon. I personally find the Griffons to be the best 13 DIN binding out there on hardpack. If Marker can transfer that toe elasticity to the PT, I am interested. If they use the mechanics of the Squire/Tour however, I am not going near it. I cannot ski the Shifts without holding back slightly in pressured short turns on icy hardpack. Definately room for improvement in this regard.
* Have power transfer that makes it feel like a bombproof alpine binding. If they use the pins as the connector, it might work.
* Make a M-Works version of the PT that is 200 grams lighter.

IF Marker ticks all these boxes, I can live with the extra fiddle of a removable alpine toe piece.

I can't speak to the Shift (not having so much as handled one), but just looking at the complexity of the Marker binding in the annotated photo @DtEW posted doesn't inspire confidence as far as avoiding icing. I ain't no stinkin' engineer ... just a guy who knows how ice builds up

... Thom

[MnO_____]

I can't speak to the Shift (not having so much as handled one), but just looking at the complexity of the Marker binding in the annotated photo @DtEW posted doesn't inspire confidence as far as avoiding icing. I ain't no stinkin' engineer ... just a guy who knows how ice builds up

... Thom

One of the advantages with the Shift is that it is made out of forged/molded carbon and therefore is better than metal bindings in terms of ice buildup. The Duke PT, on the other hand, have some critical parts for switching back into ski mode made out of metal, at least from how it looks. That might cause some serious icing problems in a part where you really don't want it. Some will probably need to do some descents in locked out tele style one day...

[Spyderjon]

..........And what are the odds that Amer comes out with a 16 din Shift this SIA? Pretty dang high I'd guess.

Somewhere in the Shift thread (possibly in one of Cody's posts) is a comment from one of the Shift designers saying that won't happen as the Shift toe has not been designed to withstand the loads exerted by a 16 din spring.

According to my Salomon Rep there's a lower din Shift scheduled for for 20/21 so it'll be available at the same time as the 4-12 din Duke PT hits the market.

[galibier_numero_un]

Somewhere in the Shift thread (possibly in one of Cody's posts) is a comment from one of the Shift designers saying that won't happen as the Shift toe has not been designed to withstand the loads exerted by a 16 din spring.

According to my Salomon Rep there's a lower din Shift scheduled for for 20/21 so it'll be available at the same time as the 4-12 din Duke PT hits the market.

^^^ this ^^^ and which one of you is a better skier than Cody to justify DIN 16?

... Thom

[toast2266]

^^^ this ^^^ and which one of you is a better skier than Cody to justify DIN 16?

... Thom

If the toe housing can't handle a 16 din spring, I'm skeptical it can handle years of abuse, occasionally smashing off of hard objects, banging around in the back of a pickup truck, etc.

It's not the din I care about. But if I'm shelling out a bunch of money for an alpine binding, I want it to hold up to a decent amount of abuse.

[bthomson22]

That's a lot of moving parts... so that's concerning. Interesting to see companies keep pushing this hybrid design though. I'll be curious to hear the early reports once people get these on snow.

[powdork]

so they went from a 7 degree and 13 degree set of risers to just the one 10 degree?
I'll be buying old barons then

[galibier_numero_un]

If the toe housing can't handle a 16 din spring, I'm skeptical it can handle years of abuse, occasionally smashing off of hard objects, banging around in the back of a pickup truck, etc.

It's not the din I care about. But if I'm shelling out a bunch of money for an alpine binding, I want it to hold up to a decent amount of abuse.

Fair point. Cast is for you.

... Thom

[#######]

Updated Pic

[thefortrees]

Is that real wood trim on those bindings?

[ak_powder_monkey]

I remember getting roundly criticized for calling shifts almost unusable.

[skibrd]

I remember getting roundly criticized for calling shifts almost unusable.

Shifts are unusable, you aren’t alone out there.

Is the new Duke already dead with Look re-releasing the all metal P15 next year and CAST already having a conversion for it? A family member is looking to getting into touring and I said get something you can resell to get the P15 Cast next winter.


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[doebedoe]

with Look re-releasing the all metal P15 next year ...

WHAT? Is this confirmed. If so, dope.

[madriverfreeride]

Lots of grumbling around the Internet of the p15 coming back. Won’t believe it until I see it with my own eyes in the look catalog. Could it kill the duke pt? Probably not, a lot of people want a set up they can buy right off the wall and have mounted, not have to buy a pivot, then a cast set up, then have it mounted at a shop.

Is cast better then the duke? Tbd, but I’m going to say a pivot 15/18 is most likely more reliable, no one will really know until people start getting the new duke in their hands, but it is made by marker who have a knack for making mediocre products.